18:00:17 <pboy> #startmeeting fedora-server
18:00:17 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb  7 18:00:17 2024 UTC.
18:00:17 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:17 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:17 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
18:00:31 <pboy> #topic Welcome / roll call
18:00:36 <eseyman> hello, pboy
18:00:43 <pboy> Welcome to our Server WG IRC meeting today!
18:00:43 <pboy> This is an out of order meeting to follow up on our Jan 19 meeting.
18:00:43 <pboy> „Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
18:00:47 <eseyman> .hello2 eseyman
18:00:48 <zodbot> eseyman: eseyman 'Emmanuel Seyman' <emmanuel@seyman.fr>
18:00:53 <pboy> hello eseyman
18:01:05 <eseyman> just in time, mowest
18:01:10 <pboy> hello mowest!  Glad to see you!
18:01:19 <mowest> Good to be back
18:01:33 <mowest> .hello2
18:01:36 <zodbot> mowest: mowest 'Steve Daley' <mowest@vivaldi.net>
18:02:25 <pboy> Let's start. I post the agenda
18:02:34 <jdubby> .hello2
18:02:35 <zodbot> jdubby: Sorry, but user 'jdubby' does not exist
18:03:09 <pboy> #topic Agenda
18:03:22 <pboy> #info  LVM2 default configuration change
18:03:22 <pboy> #info  Test planning for F40
18:03:23 <pboy> #info   A "story" for each release)
18:03:23 <pboy> #info  Work program and goals for F40
18:03:23 <pboy> #info  Revisiting Fedora Server release criteria
18:03:23 <pboy> #info  Open Floor
18:03:33 <pboy> Any topic to add?
18:03:45 <eseyman> I'm good
18:03:54 <pboy> OK
18:04:03 <pboy> #topic 1. LVM2 default configuration change
18:04:11 <pboy> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2258764
18:04:11 <pboy> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2246871
18:04:11 <pboy> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872
18:04:12 <jdubby> .hello jwhimpel
18:04:13 <zodbot> jdubby: jwhimpel 'John Himpel' <john@jlhimpel.net>
18:04:23 <pboy> Hi John!
18:04:44 <eseyman> so this has been a massive disappointment
18:05:04 <pboy> eseyman Do you have news here?
18:06:00 <eseyman> no, I've just followed what little has happened
18:06:31 <pboy> yeah, the main processing is now https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872
18:06:49 <pboy> I discussed the issue on Monday on the QA meeting.
18:07:20 <pboy> adamw will try to get some information from LVM group.
18:07:36 <eseyman> I hope he has better luck than I did
18:07:54 <pboy> Yeah.
18:08:45 <pboy> Next Monday starts blocker discussion. And this bug should be or already is a blocker. I'll participate in that session.
18:09:09 <eseyman> what time is that meeting?
18:09:45 <pboy> eseyman, i don't know yet, around 17:00 european time, if I remember correctly
18:10:03 <pboy> I'll forward the announcement as soon as I get it.
18:10:51 <eseyman> ok, I can attend that meeting
18:11:16 <pboy> I made a rather specific proposal in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872  #8
18:11:33 <pboy> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872#c8
18:12:01 <pboy> Any idea about it here? Could that be the current Server WG position?
18:12:02 <eseyman> None of those thrill me, FWIW
18:14:59 <pboy> Any question or comment about #8? Any objection?
18:15:42 <eseyman> Did you get to discuss the issue with anyone at FOSDEM?
18:15:59 <pboy> Unfortunately not.
18:16:56 <pboy> But there is other good news, will talk about it with topic  4
18:17:55 <pboy> Well, I see no objection, so we agree about it.
18:19:19 <pboy> #agreed WG agrees about the proposal https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872#c8 , according to our current information we currently have.
18:19:32 <pboy> Next topic.
18:19:44 <pboy> #topic 2. Test planning for F40
18:19:54 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/125
18:19:54 <pboy> #link https://hackmd.io/NtO4O9vRT3a71UMZMkceoA?both
18:20:12 <pboy> We should discuss the task list, the item list and potentially critical change proposals., I think.
18:20:34 <eseyman> That hackmd.io link gives me a 403
18:21:04 <pboy> Hm, I suppose you must login?
18:21:44 <eseyman> I am logged in
18:22:43 <pboy> OK,. i changed the permissions. Obviously, the default changed.
18:22:51 <pboy> Does it work now?
18:22:59 <eseyman> YES, MUCH BETTER
18:23:09 <eseyman> sorry, caps lock was on
18:23:20 <pboy> I'll just ask on matrix if adamw is available
18:24:13 <jdubby> I can reach the mackmd.io link just fine.
18:25:17 <pboy> OK, so it works now, reading everyone, writing logged in usersers
18:26:45 <jdubby> When I updated bare metal from F39 to F40, I could no longer access the VM's on that host via virt-manager.  I finally figured out that I had to relabel everything for selinux.
18:27:35 <pboy> jdubby that's bad. relabel the host or the vm?
18:28:05 <jdubby> Would someone else please see if they can replicate the issue before I file a bugzilla.  I had to relabel the host not the VM.
18:28:41 <pboy> Yes, we need a 2nd pair of eyes.
18:29:15 <pboy> And is it specific to virt-manager or is Cockpit and CLI  affected, too?
18:29:20 <jdubby> Virt-manager could not access /run/libvirt/common/system.token
18:29:32 <jdubby> I only tried virt-manager. Sorry
18:30:31 <pboy> No problem, if I remember correctly, virt-manager is deprecated now, but still widely used on graphical desktops. So it is important.
18:32:33 <pboy> Question is, where we collect the findings. There use to be a QA result page, but I can't find it at the moment.  And Adam is obviously not online.
18:34:38 <pboy> jdubby can you ask on users, what the status of virt-manager is (deprecated or not) and what the supported way on graphical desktops is?
18:35:01 <jdubby> Sure
18:35:12 <pboy> ++1
18:35:31 <pboy> Well, any other comment?
18:37:46 <pboy> Regarding the results, for the time being we should add a foot note number in the Remark column and a short description beyond the table.
18:39:21 <pboy> Well, I see no generic comments.
18:39:48 <pboy> So do we agree about the test tasks and the test items so far?
18:40:18 <eseyman> yes, this is fine
18:40:23 <pboy> OK.
18:40:55 <pboy> #agreed WG agrees about the test task and test items list in https://hackmd.io/NtO4O9vRT3a71UMZMkceoA?both
18:41:25 <sgallagh> virt-manager is a thin veneer over libvirt, so it's highly unlikely that cockpit or virsh would have worked where it didn't
18:41:59 <pboy> Well, in the next step it would be good, if erveryone cold take on 1 or 2 items and add himself in the tester columnr
18:43:31 <pboy> I already took the raid task, because I have the equipment to do it. Otherwise, I'll let others select first.
18:44:11 <pboy> sgallagh thanks for the info!
18:44:53 <sgallagh> Sorry, only checking the logs here every few minutes. Busy day with the EL10 fork next week
18:46:03 <pboy> sgallagh Yes, I read about it.  So I am all the happier that you are thinking of us, too   :-)
18:46:55 <sgallagh> Part of the reason I'm here was to suggest that future meetings be held on Matrix where I don't have to make a conscious effort to dig out an IRC client to join :)
18:47:03 <sgallagh> (I was going to suggest that during Open Floor)
18:47:10 <pboy> Well, I think, the next issue to check the change proposal set for potential critical items.
18:47:20 <pboy> sgallagh I too
18:47:48 <pboy> Would someone check the list for our next meeting?
18:48:18 <eseyman> I can do that
18:48:19 <pboy> Next Mondoy (13.) is the branching date.
18:48:55 <pboy> Then the list should be final (more or less)
18:49:02 <pboy> eseyman thanks
18:49:45 <pboy> #action eseyman will check the change proposal set for items we should aware of and care about.
18:50:20 <pboy> Next topic
18:50:30 <pboy> #topic 3. A "story" for each release
18:51:13 <pboy> I guess, I'll open a thread on our mailing list, so we can exchange ideas there.
18:51:28 <pboy> Our time is nearly up
18:52:13 <pboy> Same is true for topic 4
18:52:46 <pboy> And we should postpone topic 5 until we managed the urgent ones for F40
18:53:00 <pboy> Any objections?
18:53:07 <eseyman> nope
18:53:15 <pboy> ok
18:53:25 <pboy> #topic 6. Open Floor
18:53:44 <sgallagh> As noted above, I was going to suggest moving the meetings to Matrix
18:54:03 <pboy> One think we have to discuss it the move of Fedora to matrix as the preferred communication channel and what we want to do about it.
18:54:15 <pboy> There are 2 parts:
18:54:18 <sgallagh> There is now support for meeting commands (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FESCo_meeting_process for example usage)
18:54:32 <pboy> Yes, there are 2 parts:
18:54:52 <jdubby> What matrix client is recommended for Fedora users?
18:54:54 <eseyman> For those of us using Fedora Workstation, what are our choices in GUI Matrix clients? TUI clients?
18:55:02 <mowest> I thought that Matrix and IRC channels were supposed to be linked or bridged.
18:55:18 <eseyman> mowest: was true at one point but no longer is
18:55:29 <pboy> 1. our meetings, moving from IRC meeting to Matrix meeting
18:55:42 <eseyman> and the bridge isn't coming back
18:55:45 <pboy> 2. our communication, mailing list or Matrix chant
18:56:34 <sgallagh> Right, the IRC-to-Matrix bridge has been down for a year and there are no plans to reconnect them (and at this point, most people have migrated to Matrix)
18:56:37 <pboy> and regarding Matrix clients: the browser plugin works really good. The preferred app is elements. Works very fine, too
18:56:58 <mowest> I'm probably the only one, but the death of IRC is a bummer to me. I like CLI interfaces.
18:57:12 <pboy> mowest 1++
18:57:17 <mowest> I'm in weechat right now.
18:57:17 <sgallagh> As for a Matrix client, it doesn't really matter. They're all going to the same place. I use the Elements browser app via https://chat.fedoraproject.org myself.
18:57:40 <pboy> But I have to admit, for chat and arguments Matrix is better than IRC, more comfortable.
18:57:40 <sgallagh> mowest: https://xkcd.com/1782/
18:58:51 <mowest> sgallagh: Nice :-)
18:59:03 <pboy> My idea is:  meeting on Matrix, communication still using mailing list.
18:59:21 <sgallagh> pboy: +1
18:59:28 <mowest> I'm willing to bend to the will of the WG.
18:59:53 <pboy> mowest you shouldn't "bend"
19:00:10 <mowest> Okay submit...
19:00:13 <pboy> but be "happy" with exciting new ways  :-)
19:00:56 <pboy> I was reluctant first, too. And I live CLI, I have more than 100 key to do the work, not just 3 as with a mouse
19:00:57 <mowest> Just include a link that will open Matrix in the announcement email.
19:01:06 <sgallagh> pboy: Wayland folks will be happy to hear that ;-)
19:01:39 <eseyman> yeah, I'm going to need an alternative to the Web UI...
19:02:03 <pboy> OK, we switch to Matrix with the next session and I include the correct link.
19:02:04 <sgallagh> https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/
19:02:16 <pboy> #agreed WG will continue meetings on Matrix
19:02:27 <sgallagh> There are CLI clients there, notably gomuks
19:03:02 <pboy> Other topic: next  Flock
19:03:47 <pboy> Flock 2024 will be in first half of August, somewhere in America
19:04:32 <pboy> Would be nice we we could use the opportunity to meet in-person, at least some of us.
19:04:45 <sgallagh> I intend to be there
19:05:09 <pboy> sgallagh me too
19:05:25 <eseyman> I can try to make it
19:05:57 <pboy> Or we could organize a hybrid talk or workshop, half in-person, half via video conference
19:06:12 <pboy> eseyman ++1
19:06:49 <pboy> Under specific circumstances there may be a chance to get some funding.
19:06:49 <eseyman> looks like a duel between Rochester, Montréal and Ciudad de México
19:06:53 <sgallagh> I found that workshops with a 5-10 minute intro session worked best for things like Fedora Server and Modularity at Flock
19:07:45 <pboy> Yes, the default duration of a workshop is 90 mins.
19:07:53 <sgallagh> Flock (for me, at least) has always been a great conference for Getting Things Done
19:08:16 <sgallagh> vs. DevConf, RH Summit and such which are more like showcases
19:08:37 <pboy> Yes! It was my first Flock last year, and it was great!
19:09:30 <pboy> Well, even the talk was quite productive. I talked about our plans, and how to do it. And I got a lot of good feedback and proposals.
19:10:16 <pboy> Oh, I see, our time is up!  We have already overdrawn.
19:10:33 <pboy> So, anything here to add?
19:11:29 <pboy> I see none
19:11:58 <pboy> So, meet you in 2 weeks again, on Matrix than (what an adventure)
19:12:09 <pboy> bye bye
19:12:14 <eseyman> bye, folks
19:12:25 <pboy> #endmeeting