2024-03-06 18:00:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> !startmeeting fedora-server
2024-03-06 18:00:21 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-03-06 18:00:20 UTC
2024-03-06 18:00:21 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'
2024-03-06 18:00:30 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Welcome / roll call
2024-03-06 18:00:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> Welcome to our Server WG meeting today!
„Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
2024-03-06 18:00:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> I’ll post the agenda in about 2 minutes.
Sorry for the late Agenda. We had a breakdown of our house heetring, which caused some headaches, brought a lot of discomfort and cost even more euros. Fortunately, everything is back again.
2024-03-06 18:01:30 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Ah, that sucks...
2024-03-06 18:01:34 <@humaton:fedora.im> hello
2024-03-06 18:01:34 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Hey, everybody
2024-03-06 18:02:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-03-06 18:02:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-03-06 18:02:48 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-03-06 18:02:50 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-03-06 18:03:14 <@eseyman:fedora.im> !hi
2024-03-06 18:03:15 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his
2024-03-06 18:03:40 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> !hi

2024-03-06 18:03:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @jwhimpel:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
2024-03-06 18:04:04 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> !hi
2024-03-06 18:04:07 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @cooltshirtguy:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
2024-03-06 18:04:32 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> :P 
2024-03-06 18:05:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> Matrix/zodbot seems a little bitchy today.
2024-03-06 18:05:49 <@pboy:fedora.im> Nevertheless, the quorum has been reached. 
2024-03-06 18:06:13 <@pboy:fedora.im> Zodbot will hopefully come to his senses 
2024-03-06 18:06:26 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Agenda
2024-03-06 18:06:35 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Follow-up actions & announcements
2024-03-06 18:06:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Review installation media
2024-03-06 18:06:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  LVM2 configuration & ARM SBC installation
2024-03-06 18:07:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  F40 Chang Set items requiring our attention
2024-03-06 18:07:07 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Testing F40
2024-03-06 18:07:18 <@pboy:fedora.im> info  Our "story" for F40
2024-03-06 18:07:25 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Open Floor
2024-03-06 18:07:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything to add?
2024-03-06 18:08:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK Let's start
2024-03-06 18:08:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
2024-03-06 18:08:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> At the moment, there is nothing new here.
2024-03-06 18:08:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> Just one thing:
2024-03-06 18:08:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> There is a question from the EPEL team if we can move our meeting forward to 16:00 URC so that EPEL can occupy the space at 18:00 UTC.
2024-03-06 18:09:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> What do you think?

For me it is doable, but difficult. It conflicts with our family dinner and the kids' bedtime routine.
But if I'm the only one, it doesn't have to fail because of me.

I'm a bit reluctant. We can only do this if it really is perfectly OK for each of us!
2024-03-06 18:09:20 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I would very much prefer this as it's been hard to come to these because of all the meeting conflicts
2024-03-06 18:09:37 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> I'm ok with moving it. 
2024-03-06 18:09:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I had just managed to free it up and then EPEL needed to move, so as a member of the EPEL steering committee and this, I would like it to move so I can attend both
2024-03-06 18:10:11 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> small extra note, the reason for 1600 and not 1700 is because the epel steering committee meeting pins to utc and doesn't change with summer time
2024-03-06 18:10:29 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> so i think that would work out to 1600/1700 for this meeting, and 1800 for epel
2024-03-06 18:11:24 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> alternatively, this meeting could do 1700 and pin to utc
2024-03-06 18:11:25 <@eseyman:fedora.im> doable but difficult for me
2024-03-06 18:11:51 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2024-03-06 18:11:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2024-03-06 18:11:53 <@eseyman:fedora.im> can't we just meet in a "Fedora Meeting 1" channel ?
2024-03-06 18:12:20 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> epel steering already moved to that channel, but that doesn't help attendees of both meetings
2024-03-06 18:12:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the idea is to avoid double booking
2024-03-06 18:12:33 <@eseyman:fedora.im> True
2024-03-06 18:12:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> That's the other question. Can Epel use the other room as last week and all the time before? 
2024-03-06 18:12:49 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Let's try it and see if we can make it work
2024-03-06 18:12:54 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> fyi, the server wg docs do actually say this meeting is supposed to be at 1700 utc and doesn't mention shifting with summertime.  i only found out at the last meeting that it has been shifting to 1800 half the year.
2024-03-06 18:13:12 <@pboy:fedora.im> Double booking may be sometime unavoicable
2024-03-06 18:13:35 <@pboy:fedora.im> jwhimpel? jednorozec? 
2024-03-06 18:13:36 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> epel already moved to #meeting-1:fedoraproject.org 
2024-03-06 18:13:57 <@humaton:fedora.im> I am ok with any time
2024-03-06 18:14:17 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> There's also meeting-room-2 and meeting-room-3.  Are they available for us?
2024-03-06 18:14:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's not a room conflict anymore, the concern is for not double booking folks that want to attend both
2024-03-06 18:14:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hm, I suppose, it's Neil only?
2024-03-06 18:15:20 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> If we need to move, I would rather make it earlier than later.
2024-03-06 18:15:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> And sorry, Neil, you didn't attend for more than a year now.
2024-03-06 18:16:23 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i would be interesting in starting to attend, but won't be able to if it conflicts in time with epel
2024-03-06 18:16:30 <@pboy:fedora.im> The issue is: IoT's meeting is 16:00 UTC.
2024-03-06 18:16:49 <@pboy:fedora.im> I just noticed.
2024-03-06 18:17:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> Then we would have another double booking.
2024-03-06 18:17:56 <@pboy:fedora.im> Carl George: OK, that's an argument
2024-03-06 18:18:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> 1700utc would work if it pins to utc time
2024-03-06 18:19:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> Pinning to UTC didn't work for many of us. Therefore we decided to shift.
2024-03-06 18:20:33 <@humaton:fedora.im> yeah pinning to UTC makes sense if you have no other obligations...
2024-03-06 18:21:03 <@eseyman:fedora.im> because those don't pin to UTC
2024-03-06 18:21:12 <@humaton:fedora.im> yup
2024-03-06 18:21:25 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> It would not be my first preference to pin, but I could make it work.
2024-03-06 18:21:39 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> does iot pin to utc?
2024-03-06 18:22:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> As I see, our core team members would be able to shift. Problem is to find a good time.
2024-03-06 18:22:24 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> for epel at least it was our preference to pin to utc, because then you never have to ask whose summertime shift the shift is happening with.  it's different in many countries.
2024-03-06 18:22:30 <@pboy:fedora.im> Don't know what IoT does
2024-03-06 18:23:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> I propose, I'll ask IoT and we discuss on mailing list and decide next meeting.
2024-03-06 18:23:51 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> checking their fedora calendar entries, iot also pins to utc
2024-03-06 18:23:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> server wg is the outlier
2024-03-06 18:24:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hm, all the other teams Im egaged did not pin  :-) 
2024-03-06 18:24:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> fedora-kde and workstation pin to US/ET
2024-03-06 18:24:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it varies on the teams
2024-03-06 18:25:48 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> s/outlier/outlier in this narrow window/
2024-03-06 18:26:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> I see no objection to decide next meeting. 
2024-03-06 18:26:39 <@eseyman:fedora.im> folks, we've spent 20 minutes on this. Let's make a decision and move on
2024-03-06 18:26:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed We decide next meeting about a shift of our meeting time.
2024-03-06 18:26:41 <@humaton:fedora.im> DST was never a thing world wide its just us the "west"
2024-03-06 18:26:52 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> pinning to a regions dst shifts is nice for people in that region, but double bad for everyone else
2024-03-06 18:27:01 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, we lost a lot of time here.
2024-03-06 18:27:10 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> daylight savings starts here this weekend.  Need to decide today for next meeting
2024-03-06 18:27:20 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> with pinning to utc, it's equivalent bad for everyone, just a singe conversion of utc to local
2024-03-06 18:28:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> jwhimpel: Next meeting is the same as today. 
2024-03-06 18:28:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> Unless we decide otherwise on the mailing list. 
2024-03-06 18:28:50 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> Thx,  I'll adjust my calendar.
2024-03-06 18:29:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> Let's go on. We lost 30 m ins!
2024-03-06 18:29:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 2. Review installation media
2024-03-06 18:29:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/88

2024-03-06 18:29:34 <@pboy:fedora.im> We had a good discussion last meeting.

Anything new here?
2024-03-06 18:29:42 <@humaton:fedora.im> yes
2024-03-06 18:29:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> Good!  Go omn
2024-03-06 18:30:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> omn -> on
2024-03-06 18:30:22 <@humaton:fedora.im> I didnt have much time to spend on this, but I have discovered that server config have some warnings in logs during compose
2024-03-06 18:30:39 <@humaton:fedora.im> 2024-03-05 05:20:11 [WARNING ] Variant Server.aarch64 requires comps group ^server-product-environment which does not match anything in input comps file

2024-03-06 18:30:43 <@humaton:fedora.im> there is bunch of them 
2024-03-06 18:30:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> Oh, sh....
2024-03-06 18:31:02 <@humaton:fedora.im> it means that we have some groups that we are installing for the DVD media that are not defined 
2024-03-06 18:31:58 <@humaton:fedora.im> I have no Idea how to modify the netinstall image yet but getting there
2024-03-06 18:32:35 <@humaton:fedora.im> and continue from there 
2024-03-06 18:32:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> Thank goodness we still get a working medium 
2024-03-06 18:33:23 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, can I have a look, too? I created the VM image, which may have the same issue? 
2024-03-06 18:33:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> this is part of my point, dst doesn't start for peter in germany until march 31st, even though for many it already will have started by the time of the next many
2024-03-06 18:33:34 <@humaton:fedora.im> it was a warning from the beginning or we changed group definitions, but its warning so it just skip those groups
2024-03-06 18:34:07 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, so the fix is just to remove them?
2024-03-06 18:34:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well, we need to know what they're for and adapt
2024-03-06 18:34:34 <@humaton:fedora.im> so the problem is here https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/blob/main/f/variants-fedora.xml#_46
2024-03-06 18:34:34 <@eseyman:fedora.im> removing them won't hurt because they're not defined
2024-03-06 18:34:34 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> this is part of my point, dst doesn't start for peter in germany until march 31st, even though for many it already will have started by the time of the next meeting
2024-03-06 18:35:12 <@humaton:fedora.im> yeah I need to look into comps and see if they changed or were never there
2024-03-06 18:35:25 <@humaton:fedora.im> for those interested
2024-03-06 18:35:42 <@humaton:fedora.im> those group definitions of rpms are here https://pagure.io/fedora-comps
2024-03-06 18:36:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> When I created the VM image I noticed, that the server related comps groups need a reworking. 
2024-03-06 18:37:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> I found, they are overlapping and partly contradictory
2024-03-06 18:37:27 <@humaton:fedora.im> current rawhide definitions are here https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/blob/main/f/comps-f41.xml.in 
2024-03-06 18:37:48 <@humaton:fedora.im> note that it will be branched to -f42 once rawhide moves to f42
2024-03-06 18:38:07 <@humaton:fedora.im> so wee want to do changes in the f41 
2024-03-06 18:38:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, got it.
2024-03-06 18:38:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> I would like to have a look at the groups items. 
2024-03-06 18:38:57 <@eseyman:fedora.im> jednorozec: you don't have a list of warnings on hand, do you?
2024-03-06 18:39:11 <@humaton:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: I do
2024-03-06 18:39:20 <@humaton:fedora.im> let me paste it to some service
2024-03-06 18:39:56 <@humaton:fedora.im> https://paste.centos.org/view/74b07bb4
2024-03-06 18:40:00 <@eseyman:fedora.im> ah, that's great
2024-03-06 18:40:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> Maybe an issue in fedora-server? 
2024-03-06 18:41:04 <@humaton:fedora.im> there might be more warnings in the compose I got only so far in the log from latest rawhide 
2024-03-06 18:41:18 <@humaton:fedora.im> for those interested this is global log from rawhide compose https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/rawhide/latest-Fedora-Rawhide/logs/global/pungi.global.log
2024-03-06 18:41:31 <@humaton:fedora.im> seraching for Server might have some results
2024-03-06 18:41:33 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Strange, I do see the groups in comps...
2024-03-06 18:41:51 <@humaton:fedora.im> they might be wrongly grouped or something
2024-03-06 18:42:04 <@humaton:fedora.im> there are groups and group in the comps file
2024-03-06 18:42:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah tracking it as a fedora-server issue would help
2024-03-06 18:42:15 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Let's create an issue in pagure and discuss there
2024-03-06 18:42:21 <@humaton:fedora.im> that is all i have like I said not much time to play with it
2024-03-06 18:42:34 <@humaton:fedora.im> sure let me do that
2024-03-06 18:42:48 <@pboy:fedora.im> I think next we should check the compose groups and see how up to date they are. I don't know if other media also use some of these groups.
2024-03-06 18:43:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> As I remember from my VM prozess, there are some potential issues.
2024-03-06 18:45:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> Proposal !agreed Sever WG will check the current compose groups in issues on fedora-server repo.
2024-03-06 18:45:39 <@humaton:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/130
2024-03-06 18:46:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> jednorozec: ++1
2024-03-06 18:46:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> pboy gave a cookie to humaton. They now have 54 cookies, 5 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-03-06 18:46:58 <@eseyman:fedora.im> thank you, jednorozec 
2024-03-06 18:47:09 <@humaton:fedora.im> np that is all have for now
2024-03-06 18:47:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> Any comment about the proposal? 
2024-03-06 18:47:44 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> nope
2024-03-06 18:47:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed Sever WG will check the current compose groups in issues on fedora-server repo.
2024-03-06 18:48:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> !action jednorozec and pboy will prepare the lists or links.
2024-03-06 18:48:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 3. LVM2 configuration & ARM SBC installation
2024-03-06 18:48:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872
2024-03-06 18:48:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> I couldn't test today's test branch so see, if it is resolved now.
2024-03-06 18:49:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> A problem may be, how to initialize the correct value at first startup.
#link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872#c19
2024-03-06 18:49:17 <@pboy:fedora.im> This issue is not accepted as release blocker. So it can happen that we release a kind of crap image for the 2nd time in a row. Not a joy.

Affected is our VM image and partly the aarch64 image, if you install directly (Raspberry Devices) and do not use am-image-installer.
2024-03-06 18:50:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> But LVM group seems to be working hard on it.
2024-03-06 18:50:48 <@pboy:fedora.im> That's just for information, we should skip to F40 change set.
2024-03-06 18:51:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 4. F40 Chang Set items requiring our attention
2024-03-06 18:51:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: It's yours  :-)
2024-03-06 18:52:24 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I went through the list of accepted F40 Changes looking for any ones that might be of concern/interest to us
2024-03-06 18:52:35 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I published the list on the mailing-list
2024-03-06 18:53:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, sorry I missed to publish the link
2024-03-06 18:53:30 <@eseyman:fedora.im> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/CNH57V7LT4GMQN676XFDJWQ6U46BGDMK/
2024-03-06 18:54:34 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> This one: * Enable IPv4 Addresses Conflict Detection by Default -- It will affect startup time minimally, but I think we can live with it.
2024-03-06 18:54:35 <@eseyman:fedora.im> some stuff I'll be testing (MariaDB, PostgreSQL, 389 DS, ...) but I don't have the bandwidth to go through the entire list
2024-03-06 18:56:33 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I erred on the side of caution when deciding what to keep and what to drop
2024-03-06 18:57:41 <@humaton:fedora.im> I have some AMD HW so can test ROCm 
2024-03-06 18:59:50 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> I have a F40 system running several VM's successfully.
2024-03-06 19:00:08 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> do we have testing procedures with this stuff? I've been around for a while but never had info on this kind of stuff. 
2024-03-06 19:00:49 <@eseyman:fedora.im> not really no
2024-03-06 19:01:16 <@eseyman:fedora.im> (which is why I'm limiting myself to what I already know)
2024-03-06 19:02:13 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> ahh ok
2024-03-06 19:02:43 <@humaton:fedora.im> so maybe we could put something together
2024-03-06 19:03:09 <@humaton:fedora.im> like test minimal functionality of web servers,db and such
2024-03-06 19:03:20 <@humaton:fedora.im> if they are part of the changes 
2024-03-06 19:03:44 <@humaton:fedora.im> like now when mysql is here again and it is not packaged nicely right now
2024-03-06 19:04:14 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> I like that idea
2024-03-06 19:04:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, that is on our agenda, too, for a long time. 
2024-03-06 19:04:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/61
2024-03-06 19:05:17 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Let's kill two birds with one stone, then
2024-03-06 19:05:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> Good idea!
2024-03-06 19:05:39 <@jwhimpel:matrix.org> Sorry, I have to run now.  Bye
2024-03-06 19:05:57 <@pboy:fedora.im> Thanks jwhimpel, bye
2024-03-06 19:06:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> What is the result of this topic? how do we proceed further? 
2024-03-06 19:06:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> (our time is up)
2024-03-06 19:07:06 <@eseyman:fedora.im> We need to assign one or more people to each change, ask them to test and give us their testing criteria when they're finished
2024-03-06 19:08:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: What d you think, would it be helpful, if I make a table in an issue? It may be easier to access as mailing list.
2024-03-06 19:09:22 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I don't know. I actually think we should use the list more than we already do...
2024-03-06 19:09:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, good for me, too.
2024-03-06 19:09:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> So let's continue on mailing list. 
2024-03-06 19:10:23 <@eseyman:fedora.im> and now dinner...
2024-03-06 19:10:39 <@eseyman:fedora.im> see you at the next meeting, folks
2024-03-06 19:10:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed Server WG will continue to discuss this topic on mailing list. 
2024-03-06 19:11:02 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Peter Boy: I hope to reply to your email by Friday
2024-03-06 19:11:28 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> thanks everyone
2024-03-06 19:11:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: Would be fine. Sunday 10. is the last day
2024-03-06 19:11:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> Thanks to all for coming. See you in 14 days!
2024-03-06 19:12:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> !endmeeting