#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:00:40

!startmeeting fedora-server

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:41

Meeting started at 2024-04-03 17:00:40 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:41

The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:00:53

!topic Welcome / roll call

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:01:03

!hi

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:01:05

Welcome to our Server WG meeting today!

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:01:07

John Himpel (jwhimpel)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:01:21

„Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:01:28

Hello!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:01:49

Hi John hi cooltshirtguy

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:02:03

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:02:04

Tomáš Hrčka (humaton) - he / him / his

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:02:14

Uh, copy & past of the name works!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:02:38

Hi Tomas

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:03:15

We meet the quorum. So we should start, I think.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:03:53

Hey, folks!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:02

!topic Agenda

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:12

!info Follow-up actions & announcements

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:22

!info Review installation media

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:32

!info LVM2 default configuration change

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:41

!info Revisiting Server installation media naming convention

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:49

!info Our "story" for F40

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:00

!info Open Floor

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:26

Sorry, I have to list it line by line, otherwise zodbot gives up

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:45

Anything to add?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:06:12

OK Let's start

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:06:18

!topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:06:27

At the moment, there is nothing new here.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:06:38

We now know, next Flock is in Richmond, US. We should try to organize some sort of in-person or hybrid meeting at this occasion. Would be good if everyone keeps the date free or considers whether they can take part.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:06:59

Does anyone have anything for this topic?

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:07:09

I should be there

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:07:28

I am submitting 2 talks next week

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:07:41

Emmanuel Seyman: ++1

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:07:44

pboy gave a cookie to eseyman. They now have 14 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:08:13

jednorozec: I'm planning the same.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:08:36

So we will see us again, looking forward

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:08:55

OK, let's move on.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:09:09

!topic 2. Review installation media

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:09:17

Our main topic today

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:09:29

!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/88

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:09:37

!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/130

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:09:47

!link https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/blob/main/f/variants-fedora.xml

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:09:54

!link https://lists.fedoraproject

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:10:12

I'm a little unsure how best to proceed. It's probably best to correct and revise the comp files first.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:11:22

so I have distilled down the difference between net and DVD install media

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:11:24

netinstall installs just core RPM group DVD: guest-agents, standard, core, hardware-support, networkmanager-submodules, server-product-environment, server-product, headless-management, container-management, domain-client, server-hardware-support, arm-tools

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:11:37

Yes, I suspect the groups are no longer used and are generating warnings, if not errors

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:12:55

nope the groups are not dnf groups

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:13:00

but those defined in https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/blob/main/f/comps-f41.xml.in

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:14:10

they are used for this exact thing, difference in compose content

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:14:52

what I think we do wrongly is defining some of the groups in variants.xml in the compose tooling

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:15:16

So, do we even use different groups for creating the VM image?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:15:59

It starts with

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:16:04

!link https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/8245/115818245/fedora-disk-server.ks

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:17:24

we install all of that as default?

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:17:24

is that the qcow image?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:17:52

Sorry, no the wrong link it is:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:18:39

!link https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=115818240

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:19:21

!link https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/8240/115818240/fedora-server-vm-full.ks

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:20:31

cooltshirtguy: yes, we do.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:20:48

And I think we have to check that

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:22:32

so for KVM I think its some of this groups https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/blob/main/f/variants-fedora.xml#_45-61

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:22:36

I've always through server build should be minimalist

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:23:25

yeah

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:23:35

The base, yes, but you do need groups

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:24:11

I don't really want to specify postfix and all its milters when I'm installing a mailserver

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:24:20

that's debatable

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:24:30

all the groups installed

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:25:00

I would prefer "dnf install $MAILSERVERTHINGS" and get postfix, clamav, spamassassin and the associated milters

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:25:10

Folks, let us discuss in steps.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:25:18

question is if we can drop langpacs like containers did

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:25:24

Lets first discuss, how the image is generated.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:25:42

And in a second step the groups, and the degree of minimal.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:25:50

agreed

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:25:57

agreed. start at the beginning

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:26:31

jednorozec: droping langpacks would be quite radicale

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:27:00

Yeah radical but would save tons of space. anyhow images

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:27:03

although professionally, most admin would use english anyway, I guess

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:27:46

But let's talk about the generation step.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:28:01

I've just an idea:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:29:07

Should we use a video session for that? We could share screen, jednorozec, you could show us, where to find the pieces?

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:29:15

As someone who has never paid attention to image generation, It would be helpful to have a diagram/list of all the tools used to generate a server image along with the associated inputs and outputs. From there I could hopefully contribute meaningfully to this discussion.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:29:54

John Himpel: 1++

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:30:15

But having a look by sharing screens would help, too

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:30:18

I'm on board with a separate session to see how all this works

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:30:39

jednorozec: what do you thinkl?

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:30:47

ok, when?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:31:10

Well, either next week as an extraordinary meeting or in 14 days.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:31:34

The sooner, the better, I think

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:31:44

agreed

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:31:57

we just need to agree on time and day

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:32:02

I am fine with next week if all of you are

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:32:44

I think it would be most helpful if someone from RelMgmt was available to guide us through the various processes. The date/time of the presentation would depend upon their schedule.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:33:38

John Himpel: jednorozec was (or is?) member of releng

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:33:42

I was fedora releng guy for few years soo

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:33:51

so he knows every detail.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:34:06

not every but some :)

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:34:37

ehehhee

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:35:06

OK, so next week, 10. April 17:00UTC in Server Room.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:35:48

I'll try and educate myself by then

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:36:10

Can it be via some media that is faster and more visual than Matrix. Or have diagrams available in advance? Matrix is too slow to learn all of this in 1 hour.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:37:09

there should be jitsy instance

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:37:21

if not I can invite you to corporate google meet

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:37:46

for evening reading: https://docs.pagure.org/pungi/about.html#tool-overview

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:38:22

Well, we can use Jitsy, too. But Matix video is a Jitsy instance. And it works fine.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:39:32

ha there is the webcam button, https://matrix.to/#/#server:fedoraproject.org room?

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:40:02

I'm agnostic about the tool. Please send link and login info out sometime Tuesday.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:40:22

Yes, in Fedora Server room. We use that in Docs room for onboarding and introduc tion toi work on docs.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:41:20

Agreed, I send a link on Tuesday, about 17:00 UTC and I will start a test session, so everybody can check their equipment.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:41:57

Peter Boy: +1

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:42:09

humaton gave a cookie to pboy. They now have 28 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:42:20

OK,

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:43:02

!link https://docs.pagure.org/pungi/comps.html

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:43:06

!agreed Server WG will meet at April 10, 17:00 UTC for a video meeting about revisiting installation media in Matrix Server room

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:43:43

!agreed We will start a test session Tuesday, Apr. 9 17:00 In Matrix Server Room.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:44:21

So, let's proceed with next topic??

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:44:33

sure

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:44:41

!topic 3. LVM2 configuration & ARM SBC installation

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:44:46

15 minutes left...

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:45:05

Just shortly: I checked the the VM image of today (20240403). It still contains a /etc/lvm/devices directory and a devices file.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:45:17

According to the bug report information, the directory issue should be resolved.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:45:33

I'll continue to watch this iss

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:45:43

Next topic.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:45:53

!topic 4. Testing F40

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:46:03

Any news here?

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:47:58

Sorry, Illness kept me off the computer this week. I will check duplicate IP addresses with no GUI on or before Saturday and report results via email.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:48:19

Thanks

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:48:30

Had no time to do anything. Maybe this week

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:48:37

i'll check the arm image soon

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:48:51

OK. Does anyone know how to work with the result page?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:49:15

!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_40_Beta_1.10_Server

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:50:24

Obviously I'm too stupid for that.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:52:36

Maybe, I'm not the only one?

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

17:53:33

you're not the only one

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:53:39

OK, I'll ask Adam for a short guide.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:53:45

Next topic

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:53:57

!topic 5. Revisiting Server installation media naming convention

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:54:24

!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/126

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:54:33

And my posting today.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:54:41

on mailing list.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:55:30

What do you think about the proposal?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:55:55

!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/OPEGJBUMMFAHRI3USRWMJ5RRCQCFVKZ5/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:57:38

And we had a releng issue about that some time ago

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:57:43

!link https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11089

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:59:11

there was some effort with 39 to change the checksum naming

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:59:17

but it failed :/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:59:52

Oh, didn't noticed that.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:00:05

Under "arch" I would include something for ARM arch.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

18:00:16

I think the changes were reverted at Beta

<@humaton:fedora.im>

18:00:24

or some other RC compose

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:00:30

Yes, arch is meant as a placeholder

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:01:05

I need to think about it for a while before approving or suggesting improvements...

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:01:24

Yeah, out time is up anyway.

<@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org>

18:01:52

always a time issue

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:02:03

We should try to complete our discussion in the next 4 weeks, si that there is plenty of time for releng..

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:02:13

And continue on mailing list.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:02:20

OK, last not least:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:02:31

!topic 7. Open Floor

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:02:41

Anything here?

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:03:32

nothing that can't wait

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:03:50

OK, let's close.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:04:00

!endmeeting