2024-04-03 17:00:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> !startmeeting fedora-server
2024-04-03 17:00:41 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-04-03 17:00:40 UTC
2024-04-03 17:00:41 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'
2024-04-03 17:00:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Welcome / roll call
2024-04-03 17:01:03 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-03 17:01:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> Welcome to our Server WG meeting today!
2024-04-03 17:01:07 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Himpel (jwhimpel)
2024-04-03 17:01:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> „Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
2024-04-03 17:01:28 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> Hello! 
2024-04-03 17:01:49 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hi John hi cooltshirtguy 
2024-04-03 17:02:03 <@humaton:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-03 17:02:04 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Tomáš Hrčka (humaton) - he / him / his
2024-04-03 17:02:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> Uh, copy & past of the name works!
2024-04-03 17:02:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hi Tomas
2024-04-03 17:03:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> We meet the quorum. So we should start, I think.
2024-04-03 17:03:53 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Hey, folks!
2024-04-03 17:04:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Agenda
2024-04-03 17:04:12 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Follow-up actions & announcements
2024-04-03 17:04:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Review installation media
2024-04-03 17:04:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  LVM2 default configuration change
2024-04-03 17:04:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Revisiting Server installation media naming convention
2024-04-03 17:04:49 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Our "story" for F40
2024-04-03 17:05:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Open Floor
2024-04-03 17:05:26 <@pboy:fedora.im> Sorry, I have to list it line by line, otherwise zodbot gives up
2024-04-03 17:05:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything to add?
2024-04-03 17:06:12 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK Let's start
2024-04-03 17:06:18 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
2024-04-03 17:06:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> At the moment, there is nothing new here.
2024-04-03 17:06:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> We now know, next Flock is in Richmond, US. We should try to organize some sort of in-person or hybrid meeting at this occasion. Would be good if everyone keeps the date free or considers whether they can take part.
2024-04-03 17:06:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> Does anyone have anything for this topic?
2024-04-03 17:07:09 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I should be there
2024-04-03 17:07:28 <@humaton:fedora.im> I am submitting 2 talks next week
2024-04-03 17:07:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: ++1
2024-04-03 17:07:44 <@zodbot:fedora.im> pboy gave a cookie to eseyman. They now have 14 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-04-03 17:08:13 <@pboy:fedora.im> jednorozec: I'm planning the same. 
2024-04-03 17:08:36 <@pboy:fedora.im> So we will see us again, looking forward
2024-04-03 17:08:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, let's move on.
2024-04-03 17:09:09 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 2. Review installation media
2024-04-03 17:09:17 <@pboy:fedora.im> Our main topic today
2024-04-03 17:09:29 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/88
2024-04-03 17:09:37 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/130
2024-04-03 17:09:47 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/blob/main/f/variants-fedora.xml
2024-04-03 17:09:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://lists.fedoraproject
2024-04-03 17:10:12 <@pboy:fedora.im> I'm a little unsure how best to proceed. It's probably best to correct and revise the comp files first.
2024-04-03 17:11:22 <@humaton:fedora.im> so I have distilled down the difference between net and DVD install media
2024-04-03 17:11:24 <@humaton:fedora.im> netinstall installs just core RPM group

DVD:
guest-agents, standard, core, hardware-support, networkmanager-submodules, server-product-environment, server-product, headless-management, container-management, domain-client, server-hardware-support, arm-tools
2024-04-03 17:11:37 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Yes, I suspect the groups are no longer used and are generating warnings, if not errors
2024-04-03 17:12:55 <@humaton:fedora.im> nope the groups are not dnf groups
2024-04-03 17:13:00 <@humaton:fedora.im> but those defined in https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/blob/main/f/comps-f41.xml.in
2024-04-03 17:14:10 <@humaton:fedora.im> they are used for this exact thing, difference in compose content
2024-04-03 17:14:52 <@humaton:fedora.im> what I think we do wrongly is defining some of the groups in variants.xml in the compose tooling
2024-04-03 17:15:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> So, do we even use different groups for creating the VM image? 
2024-04-03 17:15:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> It starts with
2024-04-03 17:16:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link  https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/8245/115818245/fedora-disk-server.ks 
2024-04-03 17:17:24 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> we install all of that as default?
2024-04-03 17:17:24 <@humaton:fedora.im> is that the qcow image?
2024-04-03 17:17:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> Sorry, no the wrong link it is:
2024-04-03 17:18:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link  https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=115818240 
2024-04-03 17:19:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/8240/115818240/fedora-server-vm-full.ks 
2024-04-03 17:20:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> cooltshirtguy: yes, we do.
2024-04-03 17:20:48 <@pboy:fedora.im> And I think we have to check that
2024-04-03 17:22:32 <@humaton:fedora.im> so for KVM I think its some of this groups https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/blob/main/f/variants-fedora.xml#_45-61
2024-04-03 17:22:36 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> I've always through server build should be minimalist
2024-04-03 17:23:25 <@humaton:fedora.im> yeah 
2024-04-03 17:23:35 <@eseyman:fedora.im> The base, yes, but you do need groups
2024-04-03 17:24:11 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I don't really want to specify postfix and all its milters when I'm installing a mailserver
2024-04-03 17:24:20 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> that's debatable
2024-04-03 17:24:30 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> all the groups installed
2024-04-03 17:25:00 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I would prefer "dnf install $MAILSERVERTHINGS" and get postfix, clamav, spamassassin and the associated milters
2024-04-03 17:25:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> Folks, let us discuss in steps.
2024-04-03 17:25:18 <@humaton:fedora.im> question is if we can drop langpacs like containers did
2024-04-03 17:25:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> Lets first discuss, how the image is generated.
2024-04-03 17:25:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> And in a second step the groups, and the degree of minimal.
2024-04-03 17:25:50 <@eseyman:fedora.im> agreed
2024-04-03 17:25:57 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> agreed. start at the beginning 
2024-04-03 17:26:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> jednorozec: droping langpacks would be quite radicale
2024-04-03 17:27:00 <@humaton:fedora.im> Yeah radical but would save tons of space. anyhow images
2024-04-03 17:27:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> although professionally, most admin would use english anyway, I guess
2024-04-03 17:27:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> But let's talk about the generation step.
2024-04-03 17:28:01 <@pboy:fedora.im> I've just an idea:
2024-04-03 17:29:07 <@pboy:fedora.im> Should we use a video session for that? We could share screen, jednorozec, you could show us, where to find the pieces? 
2024-04-03 17:29:15 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> As someone who has never paid attention to image generation, It would be helpful to have a diagram/list of all the tools used to generate a server image along with the associated inputs and outputs.  From there I could hopefully contribute meaningfully to this discussion.
2024-04-03 17:29:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: 1++
2024-04-03 17:30:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> But having a look by sharing screens would help, too
2024-04-03 17:30:18 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> I'm on board with a separate session to see how all this works
2024-04-03 17:30:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> jednorozec: what do you thinkl? 
2024-04-03 17:30:47 <@humaton:fedora.im> ok, when?
2024-04-03 17:31:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, either next week as an extraordinary meeting or in 14 days.
2024-04-03 17:31:34 <@eseyman:fedora.im> The sooner, the better, I think
2024-04-03 17:31:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> agreed
2024-04-03 17:31:57 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> we just need to agree on time and day
2024-04-03 17:32:02 <@humaton:fedora.im> I am fine with next week if all of you are
2024-04-03 17:32:44 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I think it would be most helpful if someone from RelMgmt was available to guide us through the various processes.  The date/time of the presentation would depend upon their schedule.
2024-04-03 17:33:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: jednorozec was (or is?) member of releng 
2024-04-03 17:33:42 <@humaton:fedora.im> I was fedora releng guy for few years soo
2024-04-03 17:33:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> so he knows every detail.
2024-04-03 17:34:06 <@humaton:fedora.im> not every but some :)
2024-04-03 17:34:37 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> ehehhee
2024-04-03 17:35:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, so next week, 10. April 17:00UTC in Server Room.
2024-04-03 17:35:48 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I'll try and educate myself by then
2024-04-03 17:36:10 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Can it be via some media that is faster and more visual than Matrix.  Or have diagrams available in advance?  Matrix is too slow to learn all of this in 1 hour.
2024-04-03 17:37:09 <@humaton:fedora.im> there should be jitsy instance 
2024-04-03 17:37:21 <@humaton:fedora.im> if not I can invite you to corporate google meet
2024-04-03 17:37:46 <@humaton:fedora.im> for evening reading: https://docs.pagure.org/pungi/about.html#tool-overview
2024-04-03 17:38:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, we can use Jitsy, too. But Matix video is a Jitsy instance. And it works fine. 
2024-04-03 17:39:32 <@humaton:fedora.im> ha there is the webcam button, https://matrix.to/#/#server:fedoraproject.org room?
2024-04-03 17:40:02 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I'm agnostic about the tool.  Please send link and login info out sometime Tuesday.
2024-04-03 17:40:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, in Fedora Server room. We use that in Docs room for onboarding and introduc tion toi work on docs.
2024-04-03 17:41:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> Agreed, I send a link on Tuesday, about 17:00 UTC and I will start a test session, so everybody can check their equipment.
2024-04-03 17:41:57 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Peter Boy: +1
2024-04-03 17:42:09 <@zodbot:fedora.im> humaton gave a cookie to pboy. They now have 28 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-04-03 17:42:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK,
2024-04-03 17:43:02 <@humaton:fedora.im> !link https://docs.pagure.org/pungi/comps.html
2024-04-03 17:43:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed Server WG will meet at April 10, 17:00 UTC for a video meeting about revisiting installation media in Matrix Server room 
2024-04-03 17:43:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed  We will start a test session Tuesday, Apr. 9 17:00 In Matrix Server Room.
2024-04-03 17:44:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> So, let's proceed with next topic??
2024-04-03 17:44:33 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> sure
2024-04-03 17:44:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 3. LVM2 configuration & ARM SBC installation
2024-04-03 17:44:46 <@eseyman:fedora.im> 15 minutes left...
2024-04-03 17:45:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> Just shortly: I checked the the VM image of today (20240403).  It still contains a /etc/lvm/devices directory and a  devices file.
2024-04-03 17:45:17 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
According to the bug report information, the directory issue should be resolved.
2024-04-03 17:45:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> I'll continue to watch this iss
2024-04-03 17:45:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> Next topic.
2024-04-03 17:45:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 4. Testing F40
2024-04-03 17:46:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> Any news here? 
2024-04-03 17:47:58 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Sorry, Illness kept me off the computer this week.  I will check duplicate IP addresses with no GUI on or before Saturday and report results via email.
2024-04-03 17:48:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> Thanks
2024-04-03 17:48:30 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Had no time to do anything. Maybe this week
2024-04-03 17:48:37 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> i'll check the arm image soon
2024-04-03 17:48:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK. Does anyone know how to work with the result page?
2024-04-03 17:49:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_40_Beta_1.10_Server
2024-04-03 17:50:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> Obviously I'm too stupid for that. 
2024-04-03 17:52:36 <@pboy:fedora.im> Maybe, I'm not the only one? 
2024-04-03 17:53:33 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> you're not the only one
2024-04-03 17:53:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, I'll ask Adam for a short guide.
2024-04-03 17:53:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> Next topic
2024-04-03 17:53:57 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 5. Revisiting Server installation media naming convention
2024-04-03 17:54:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/126

2024-04-03 17:54:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> And my posting today.
2024-04-03 17:54:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> on mailing list.
2024-04-03 17:55:30 <@pboy:fedora.im> What do you think about the proposal?
2024-04-03 17:55:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/OPEGJBUMMFAHRI3USRWMJ5RRCQCFVKZ5/
2024-04-03 17:57:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> And we had a releng issue about that some time ago
2024-04-03 17:57:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link  https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11089
2024-04-03 17:59:11 <@humaton:fedora.im> there was some effort with 39 to change the checksum naming 
2024-04-03 17:59:17 <@humaton:fedora.im> but it failed :/
2024-04-03 17:59:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> Oh, didn't noticed that.
2024-04-03 18:00:05 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Under "arch" I would include something for ARM arch.
2024-04-03 18:00:16 <@humaton:fedora.im> I think the changes were reverted at Beta
2024-04-03 18:00:24 <@humaton:fedora.im> or some other RC compose
2024-04-03 18:00:30 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, arch is meant as a placeholder
2024-04-03 18:01:05 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I need to think about it for a while before approving or suggesting improvements...
2024-04-03 18:01:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, out time is up anyway.
2024-04-03 18:01:52 <@cooltshirtguy:matrix.org> always a time issue
2024-04-03 18:02:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> We should try to complete our discussion in the next 4 weeks, si that there is plenty of time for releng..
2024-04-03 18:02:13 <@pboy:fedora.im> And continue on mailing list. 
2024-04-03 18:02:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, last not least:
2024-04-03 18:02:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 7. Open Floor
2024-04-03 18:02:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything here? 
2024-04-03 18:03:32 <@eseyman:fedora.im> nothing that can't wait
2024-04-03 18:03:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, let's close.
2024-04-03 18:04:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> !endmeeting