<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:00:37
!startmeeting fedora-server
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:00:40
Meeting started at 2024-05-01 17:00:37 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:00:40
The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:00:53
!topic Welcome / roll call
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:01:04
Welcome to our Server WG meeting today!
„Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:01:15
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:19
No Fedora Accounts users have the @jwhimpel:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:01:54
!hi jdubby
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:01:57
!hello
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:58
Sorry, but Fedora Accounts user 'jdubby' does not exist
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:02:01
Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:02:20
Oh, Zodbot is being picky again
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:03:45
John, I think we believe that you are here 😀
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:05:08
"There is no spoon"
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:05:39
:-) It was the first i found in a hurry :-)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:03
We are a little short on members today, but I think we should start anyway.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:28
Any objections?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:06:38
Nope, let's go
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:55
OK, then
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:05
!topic Agenda
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:14
!info Follow-up actions & announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:22
!info Revisiting Server installation media naming convention
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:31
!info Elevating Fedora Server VM distribution image
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:40
!info Fixing the "Everything" installation medium problem
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:49
!info Review installation media
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:59
!info Fedora Server goal(s) and "story" for F41 / F42
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:08
!info Open Floor
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:18
Any comment?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:44
Obviously not
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:54
!topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:06
No specific action pending.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:16
Announcements:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:25
UNISON will hopefully come back.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:33
!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/R7HX2NOVMJXO3VBOOFPIMKD64GORSKWN/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:45
That would be really handsome for Fedora Server as file server.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:10:16
Anything else for announcements?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:10:38
Not to my knowledge
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:10:58
OK, let's move on
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:11:14
!topic 2. Revisiting Server installation media naming convention
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:11:25
!https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/126
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:12:11
Lets have a shoort break for reading the current state in the issue
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:15:09
There is some additional info at the mailing list:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:15:16
!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/OPEGJBUMMFAHRI3USRWMJ5RRCQCFVKZ5/
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:15:57
Does online replace "net install"?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:16:22
jwhimpel: Yes
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:16:40
and offline replaces DVD
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:17:26
If we can attach a short explanation of online vs offline to the download pages, then I'm fine with this.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:18:24
I wonder how much effort it would be to create a rescue variant that you could burn to a USB drive (or boot off the network) in order to repair an installation
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:18:35
jwhimpel: https://fedoraproject.org/server/download
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:18:44
We can add a short explanation
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:19:24
Emmanuel Seyman: Great idea!
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:19:38
We should add that to our working plan.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:19:52
It should be not too difficult.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:20:16
I suspect it would be very similar to the offline version
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:20:57
I think it would more like a live CD? So you have all tools to fix issues at hand?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:21:57
And we should check the current rescue system. If I remember correctly, it's quite sparse.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:22:17
well, the contents would be very similar to the offline install media but, yes, it would function like a live CD
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:23:28
Yeah, with the offline image you can <ctrl><alt><F2> into a root shell. But I don't know what tools are available there.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:24:17
I think we should discuss about that in a dedicated topic next meeting.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:24:50
And continue with the name convention topic???
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:26:05
OK Back to the naming convention.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:26:17
Any additional comment?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:26:24
Indeed. FTR, your proposal works for me
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:26:43
What do you thine about the "sbcdevs" idea instead of rawsbc?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:27:31
rawsbc works better for me
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:29:07
Would one image work on any sbc <arch> or would each sbc need a custom image? ie Rpi4 vs Rpi5 vs a pine4 sbc?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:30:19
jwhimpel: One image for all sbc's. The differentiation is done during installation by arm-image-installer by installing the corresponding uboot files
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:30:33
Thx for the info.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:30:47
Rasberry uboot files are preinstralled.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:32:19
jwhimpel: Any comment about sbcdevs vs. rawsbc? If I reconsider, rawsbc is a bit more a type like online / offline or virt.
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:33:26
As a newbie, I think I would better understand rawsbc
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:34:02
OK, ao rawsbc is it
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:34:56
And what about offline / online vs. offlineinst / onlineinst ?
I would prefer the shorter.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:35:28
offline/online by a mile
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:35:39
agree with offline/online
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:35:56
OK, then we have:
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:36:24
an 'inst' does not bring anything to the table
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:36:33
proposed: !agreed Server WG decides to rename the installation media: DVD -> offline , netboot -> online, KVM -> virt, and rawsbc for ARM raw image.
proposed: !agreed Server WG decides on a consistent naming convention according to the scheme: "Fedora-Server-<rel>-<method>-<arch>-<version>.<filetype>"
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:36:54
Do we agree about the agrees ?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:37:07
an 'inst' suffix brings nothing to the table
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:37:23
+1
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:37:36
+1
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:38:24
Emmanuel Seyman: ?? We need 3 votes :-)
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:39:13
+1 here
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:39:25
thanks.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:39:37
!agreed Server WG decides to rename the installation media: DVD -> offline , netboot -> online, KVM -> virt, and rawsbc for ARM raw image.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:39:47
!agreed Server WG decides on a consistent naming convention according to the scheme: "Fedora-Server-<rel>-<method>-<arch>-<version>.<filetype>"
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:40:04
So lets move to the next topic.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:40:16
Oh I forgot:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:40:41
!action pboy will file an issue with releng.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:40:59
!topic 3. Elevating Fedora Server VM distribution image
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:41:07
No issue created yet
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:41:19
!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/4SNCGK7RKRDYGZM5P27GORXNLORO3ZE6/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:41:41
Any idea / comment?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:42:37
I like the idea but do not use VMs so will not commit to doing the work...
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:43:35
Well, until now I took care about the VM. So I suppose it would be my job.
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:43:39
If RelMgnt and QA are willing to do this, then I think it's a good idea. I make rather extensive use of VM's.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:44:25
Or John, would you like to take over?
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:47:37
What would be involved? Right now I am trying to sell a bunch of real estate that I own and finish rehabbing a couple of houses. I also run a not-for-profit corporation that provides "fix-it" services for people unable to afford or unable by themselves provide home/apartment repairs. I also lead a group of volunteers that respond after a natural disaster occurs. So my time is quite limited until September.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:49:59
jwhimpel: Thats sounds to be much work.
There is a procedure for that, but I don't know the details our of my head. At the end it is a discussion with FESCo and FESCo has to make a final decision about it. I'm not sure how much time is will consume.
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:50:59
Between now and the next meeting, let me communicate with NIRIK to see what is required. I will report back at the next meeting.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:51:36
John Himpel: +1 !
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:52:11
#action jwhimpel will check the details of the procedure and report back next meeting.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:52:17
Sorry:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:52:31
!action jwhimpel will check the details of the procedure and report back next meeting.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:52:49
Nextg topic:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:53:00
!topic 4. Fixing the "Everything" installation medium problem
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:53:15
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/136
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:53:25
!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/JJR2TSYDA4HJ2HTYHISPLGP6JVZPPRUL/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:53:54
We have not much time left. But nevertheless, any ideas / comment here?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:55:44
Obviously, no ideas at the moment. I think we postpone for now and continue discussion on mailing list?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:57:14
Changing the label to "Fedora Everything" is the only suggestion I have at the moment
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
17:58:02
It seems we need to somehow educate persons doing downloads for Fedora Server no NOT use Everything, but instead of Fedora Server. Other groups seem adamant that if we went our install to be different, we need to not be using Everything as that is controlled by the Desktop/Workstation group. All of the settings and images produced by Everything will be according to their wants and needs.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:59:32
jwhimpel: yes agreed. Let's discuss on mailing list or in the ticket, and on next meeting.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:59:54
Lets at least short discuss about the next topic.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:04
!topic 5. Review installation media
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:16
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/130
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:25
!!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/N3ELOPUB2OSJ6N7BBT6VJGGYS3VBUUBC/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:01:10
Any questions for now that we can discuss shortly or should discuss on mailing list?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:02:05
Last I checked, those groups were indeed in the comps.xml file
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:03:17
Yes, one task is to review the comps groups. Some of them were rather suspicious to me when I worked on the VM
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
18:03:32
There was some explanation of what groups were used by dnf and what groups are used by the build process and they were different. QA knows which set of groups are used by dnf and which are used by the build.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:05:00
Yes there are some differences.
At the moment we have to decide how to proceed. I would propose we contact Kevin for more information.
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
18:05:06
This issue was referenced in the video presentation. Or it was referenced in the mailing list. I forget which (My memory isn't as good as it was years ago when I was younger.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:05:35
yes, that's where I got the idea of installing several rescue tools with a single dnf command which led to my thinking "can't I just netboot off something and get a rescue env?"
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:05:50
I can try to investigate for our next meeting
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:06:17
@eseyman +1
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:07:28
Our time is up. I would like to change to Open Floor
Or do we have more discussion with this topic at the moment?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:08:16
John Himpel: did you find the time to review the nfs docs?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:10:17
Lets switch to Open Floor, that would be the right place accordinmg to our agenda
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:10:26
!topic 7. Open Floor
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
18:10:58
I was able to get nfs up and running via ansible, but it was a very simple use case (no id mapping). I found a couple of typos,, but they were not a big issue. I was using the net-install iso and I think I should be using the Fedora Server iso. I ran into some issues. I will use the proper iso and try again this weekend.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:11:38
ok, thanks
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:11:59
Typos should be fixed, imho
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:12:08
John, I read your mail but couldn't manage to answer yet.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:12:33
I think, if you found suitable ansible books, we should integrate them.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:13:03
And yes, typos are my speciality - and have to be fixed :-)
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
18:13:36
Peter, Don''t worry about it. Let me try again this weekend and get back to you on Tuesday (I am fully booked on Monday).
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:13:52
OK!
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
18:14:47
For the mailing list: Lets have a discussion of Ansible vs cockpit. Both have their strengths, but writing common docs would be a PITA.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:15:30
that works for me
<@jwhimpel:matrix.org>
18:15:39
I need to leave now.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:15:47
Yes, for me too
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:15:53
I have another question: I'm wondering if we should go back to a weekly schedule for some times. We have such a huge backlog and we have to take action in a limited time frame.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:16:49
Originally, we started with a weekly schedule. But changed to be-weekly, because we didn't had so much to do.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:17:07
John: bye bye!
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:17:45
I will not be present on the second Wednesday of the month (Paris Perl Mongers meeting)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:18:30
OK, so we could take the first, third and fourth wednesday.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:18:41
That would be a progress
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:19:07
I'll out that on the mailing list.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:19:43
We have badly overdrawn and should close now. Or anything urgent to discuss now?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:20:18
Maybe there is any onlooker with a question or comment?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:21:14
Ok, I don't see someone and will close in
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:21:14
3
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:21:49
OK, eseyman??
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:22:03
you were typing?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:22:04
Oh, yes
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:22:46
Just to see that we can close
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:23:08
OK closing now.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:23:17
!endmeeting