2024-07-17 17:00:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> !startmeeting fedora-server
2024-07-17 17:00:21 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-07-17 17:00:21 UTC
2024-07-17 17:00:22 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'
2024-07-17 17:00:32 <@eseyman:fedora.im> !hello
2024-07-17 17:00:33 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his
2024-07-17 17:00:34 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2024-07-17 17:00:34 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Welcome / roll call
2024-07-17 17:00:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, let's wait a moment for everybody to shop up.
2024-07-17 17:01:28 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Hello, Peter Boy 
2024-07-17 17:01:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> Welcome Emmanuel!
2024-07-17 17:02:27 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> !hi
2024-07-17 17:02:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Himpel (jwhimpel)
2024-07-17 17:02:38 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Hello, John
2024-07-17 17:03:37 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Good afternoon here.  Heat finally subsided for a while.
2024-07-17 17:04:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, it's a nice evening here, too.
2024-07-17 17:04:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> I think, we should start.
2024-07-17 17:04:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hoping for some more perticipants comming a bit late.
2024-07-17 17:04:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Agenda
2024-07-17 17:05:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Follow-up actions & announcements
2024-07-17 17:05:13 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
2024-07-17 17:05:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Fedora Server in a virtualized runtime environment
2024-07-17 17:05:35 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Revisiting Fedora Server release criteria
2024-07-17 17:05:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Revisiting Fedora Server quality criteria and procedures
2024-07-17 17:05:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Open Floor
2024-07-17 17:06:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything else? 
2024-07-17 17:06:30 <@pboy:fedora.im> Let's start
2024-07-17 17:06:30 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Nothing here
2024-07-17 17:06:37 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Lets' go
2024-07-17 17:06:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
2024-07-17 17:06:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> We have basically the same state as last week.
2024-07-17 17:07:01 <@pboy:fedora.im> !action pboy will file an issue with releng regarding installation media - pending
2024-07-17 17:07:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> !action pboy will close bug #2247872 (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872)
2024-07-17 17:07:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> Still open because of an ongoing discussion about improving Server first boot process
2024-07-17 17:07:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> !action pboy will write a draft issue for the goal "file server" as a base for further finetuning and detailed specification - ongoing
2024-07-17 17:07:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> All these will be longer running items, I suppose.
2024-07-17 17:08:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> For details see:
2024-07-17 17:08:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2024/
2024-07-17 17:08:25 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything to add here?
2024-07-17 17:08:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, let's move on.
2024-07-17 17:08:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 2.  Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
2024-07-17 17:09:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/138
2024-07-17 17:10:36 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I was stalled for several days dealing with the new format of /etc/exports.d/* files.  Jinga templates are not my  favorite things to wrestle with.  Finally figured out the last issue about an hour ago.  Hopefully will upload to repo in the next couple of days.
2024-07-17 17:10:47 <@eseyman:fedora.im> FTR, I've decided to package the robertdebock roles in rpm format (including the nfsserver one)
2024-07-17 17:11:29 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: very much appriciated!
2024-07-17 17:12:24 <@eseyman:fedora.im> They'll probably end up in EPEL as well so that I can use them at $WORK as well
2024-07-17 17:13:23 <@pboy:fedora.im> EPEL support it crucial, I think.
2024-07-17 17:14:08 <@eseyman:fedora.im> it will provide more feedback, at the very least
2024-07-17 17:14:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> In the long term we should watch ELN modifications. But Stephen Gallagher will notice us in case of important items.
2024-07-17 17:14:32 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I get more feedback over my Perl modules from EPEL than from Fedora
2024-07-17 17:15:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> Not surprisingly, Perl is for long-term and stable projects. 
2024-07-17 17:15:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> nowadays
2024-07-17 17:15:58 <@eseyman:fedora.im> agreed
2024-07-17 17:16:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, I think we'll discuss specific code next week, then.
2024-07-17 17:17:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> But we still have other outstanding issues:
2024-07-17 17:17:12 <@pboy:fedora.im> - What exactly are we aiming at?
2024-07-17 17:17:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> - What is the end product (a playbook, per service?)
2024-07-17 17:17:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> - what about manual documentation and synchronization?
2024-07-17 17:17:56 <@pboy:fedora.im> to name a few.
2024-07-17 17:19:55 <@eseyman:fedora.im> the end product is the ability to write a playbook that will configure one or more services
2024-07-17 17:20:05 <@mowest:fedora.im> Sorry a little late to the party
2024-07-17 17:20:35 <@eseyman:fedora.im> this playbook will contain or link to your inventory (the list of your machines) and variables (your "personal" data)
2024-07-17 17:20:36 <@humaton:fedora.im> hello 
2024-07-17 17:20:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> mowest: Doesn't matter, welcome!
2024-07-17 17:20:45 <@eseyman:fedora.im> hello, mowest 
2024-07-17 17:21:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hi jednorozec!
2024-07-17 17:22:23 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: just the ability, or will we distribute ready to use, or better ready to configure, playbooks for every service?
2024-07-17 17:22:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> I would prefer thje latter
2024-07-17 17:23:14 <@eseyman:fedora.im> We can ship sample playbooks, I guess
2024-07-17 17:23:26 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I don't think we can cover all possible usecases
2024-07-17 17:23:59 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> The readme.md file should show example usage along with instructions for setting up inventory files and playbook variables
2024-07-17 17:25:15 <@mowest:fedora.im> I'm not familiar with Ansible, but my son has written I think Ansible playbooks to bring up each of the services on our homelab server with podman. I'm in favor of having (whatever the correct Ansible term is) in Server documentation or easily installable so that people can be up and running services on a Fedora server in as little time as possible.
2024-07-17 17:25:31 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I think the playbooks should restrict their scope to "small office/home office" scenarios.  Anything else becomes quite complicated and interdependent in a hurry.
2024-07-17 17:25:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> We definitely can't cover all usecases. But we should provide a ready to use (and configure, e.g. the inventory, or  a list of dirs to export) default use case or common use case.
2024-07-17 17:26:22 <@eseyman:fedora.im> that sounds fair
2024-07-17 17:27:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> And each playbook could contain a "hook" where local extensions can be connected
2024-07-17 17:27:24 <@mowest:fedora.im> I agree that we can't cover every instance, but 3-6 good examples that demonstrate different concepts like on bare metal, in a podman container, etc. would be good.
2024-07-17 17:27:59 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> mowest +1
2024-07-17 17:28:03 <@humaton:fedora.im> so I think we should have the common use case like: podman/virthos connected to NFS shares for app data
2024-07-17 17:28:57 <@humaton:fedora.im> Ideally I just setup my inventory and keys and run the playbook to get a libvirthost with all the belles and whistles connected storage and so on...
2024-07-17 17:29:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> I think, on the server side we should provide a list of directories to export, for whatever usage.
2024-07-17 17:29:19 <@humaton:fedora.im> same for podman, also some simple web proxy 
2024-07-17 17:30:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> jednorozec: agreed!
2024-07-17 17:30:25 <@humaton:fedora.im> with those 3 scenarios I think we will have a great entry point for people interested in running fedora server 
2024-07-17 17:30:52 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> My work was geared towards four different ansible roles: 1) NFS server install/configure 2) NFS client install/configure 3) Maintain list of directories to export from server 4) Maintain list of directories to import from server
2024-07-17 17:31:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: Yeah, but you probably mix server and client playbooks?  
2024-07-17 17:32:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> For server wi would provide 1) and 3) ?
2024-07-17 17:32:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> of perobvably 4 to import from another server
2024-07-17 17:33:20 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> For server run 1 (probably only once) then 3 for each time you change list of directories served.  Same concept for 2 & 4
2024-07-17 17:33:23 <@humaton:fedora.im> that is a great start!
2024-07-17 17:33:24 <@humaton:fedora.im> I can help with libvirt host/podman playbook, 
2024-07-17 17:33:46 <@humaton:fedora.im> hm my network is glitchy :/
2024-07-17 17:34:52 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> jednorozec: Let me finish cleaning stuff up and uploading to repos.  Hope to finish that this week.  Then we can extend/modify them for libvirt host (if necessary) and podman (if necessary).
2024-07-17 17:35:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> Just a proposal: let's concentrate here on NFS. And open a new topic for libvirt next. For libvirt we have a working manual documentation. I think we should try to get the same via Ansible.
2024-07-17 17:36:05 <@humaton:fedora.im> sorry for the de-rails
2024-07-17 17:36:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> Spontaneity is fruitful!
2024-07-17 17:37:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> You just have to systematize it in a follow-up  :-) 
2024-07-17 17:37:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, I think
2024-07-17 17:38:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> we agree about the goal for NFS. I will try to put it together in the ticket.  So we can improve it.
2024-07-17 17:39:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> Should we forward to the next topic? 
2024-07-17 17:39:47 <@pboy:fedora.im> I see no objections, therefore
2024-07-17 17:40:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 3.  Fedora Server in a virtualized runtime environment 
2024-07-17 17:40:47 <@pboy:fedora.im> As we discussed earlier, as a firsrt step we wanted to run a survey
2024-07-17 17:41:23 <@pboy:fedora.im> to collect actual usages and probably demands for specific improvements or extensions.
2024-07-17 17:41:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> Do we want to stick with it? 
2024-07-17 17:43:07 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I think so
2024-07-17 17:43:35 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, I think, we agree on this.
2024-07-17 17:44:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> So, in a next step we would have to collect questions. I think, we should use hackmd.io? 
2024-07-17 17:44:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> I can offer to make a first draft, if nobody else steps up.
2024-07-17 17:45:35 <@pboy:fedora.im> But can someone else do a research how we can conduct such a survey in fedora?
2024-07-17 17:46:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> And about the best way to di it? 
2024-07-17 17:47:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> mowest, are you still typing? 
2024-07-17 17:48:02 <@eseyman:fedora.im> discourse has a survey function, I believe
2024-07-17 17:48:07 <@mowest:fedora.im> I would imagine that the best way to get responses from the community would be to publish the survey in discussion.fedora
2024-07-17 17:48:23 <@mowest:fedora.im> As Emmanuel Seyman pointed out
2024-07-17 17:48:24 <@eseyman:fedora.im> there was a 'what can we use AI for?' survey recently
2024-07-17 17:48:56 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, i remember the discussion on mailing list.
2024-07-17 17:49:57 <@pboy:fedora.im> @mowest do you think, you could take over the lead, how to orginize and to do it, when we have collected our questions? 
2024-07-17 17:51:35 <@mowest:fedora.im> I will look into creating surveys on https://discussion.fedoraproject.org
2024-07-17 17:51:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, thanks!
2024-07-17 17:51:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> So we have for now:
2024-07-17 17:52:48 <@pboy:fedora.im> !action pboy will create a hackmd draft for a collection of questions about Fedora Server in a virtualized environment
2024-07-17 17:53:25 <@pboy:fedora.im> !action mowest will come up with a plan and steps to conduct the survey on discussion 
2024-07-17 17:54:32 <@mowest:fedora.im> It looks like I will need to use another tool "Limequery" and link to that, which is setup on Fedora Infra apparently by the website address. I will see what I come up with.
2024-07-17 17:54:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> mowest: Thanks.
2024-07-17 17:55:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> So we can proceed with the next topic? 
2024-07-17 17:55:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> No objections here
2024-07-17 17:55:42 <@eseyman:fedora.im> yes, let's go
2024-07-17 17:55:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 4.   Revisiting Fedora Server release criteria
2024-07-17 17:56:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> This is a longstanding plan, together with the next. Any idea how to bring this forward? 
2024-07-17 17:58:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, I think we're out of steam now, let's switch to open floor for a moment. 
2024-07-17 17:58:26 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 6. Open Floor
2024-07-17 17:58:52 <@humaton:fedora.im> I ahve one here, Peter Boy can you please close https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/114
2024-07-17 17:58:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anythink to comment, to ask, to contribute here? 
2024-07-17 17:59:11 <@humaton:fedora.im> and also maybe grant me ticket permissions on the fedora-server repo?
2024-07-17 17:59:21 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Still looking forward to meeting you all at Flock...
2024-07-17 17:59:23 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Does anyone know if there will be KIWI presentations at FLOCK?  That will probably determine if I attend or not.
2024-07-17 17:59:31 <@humaton:fedora.im> I wrote comment there and also in the BZ and created change draft for the change...
2024-07-17 17:59:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> jednorozec: Sorry, I read your mail, but couldn't act because of a bike accident. 
2024-07-17 18:00:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> I will elevate your permissions. And comment on this
2024-07-17 18:00:23 <@humaton:fedora.im> not sure about that but the guys who did the move of KDE and containers will be there
2024-07-17 18:00:27 <@mowest:fedora.im> John Himpel: This is one presentation that is planned Fedora Cloud Edition Image Building Workshop - Using Kiwi Definitions 
2024-07-17 18:00:58 <@humaton:fedora.im> oh that will be the same one as on devconf, really good entry point into kiwi!
2024-07-17 18:01:29 <@mowest:fedora.im> This is the whole schedule = https://cfp.fedoraproject.org/flock-2024/schedule/
2024-07-17 18:01:54 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Would the KDE move create a media to be consumed by anaconda for a new install?  Inquiring minds want to know :-)
2024-07-17 18:02:19 <@mowest:fedora.im> I'm going to be there with my son.
2024-07-17 18:04:17 <@humaton:fedora.im> not sure about that but both Neal and David will be there so we can put together hallway session about kiwi and server
2024-07-17 18:04:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, we are out of time now and should close. Any objections!
2024-07-17 18:04:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> 3
2024-07-17 18:04:57 <@mowest:fedora.im> Sounds good
2024-07-17 18:04:57 <@eseyman:fedora.im> nope
2024-07-17 18:05:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> 2
2024-07-17 18:05:07 <@pboy:fedora.im> 1
2024-07-17 18:05:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> !endmeeting