<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:00:18
!startmeeting fedora-server
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:00:20
Meeting started at 2025-04-23 17:00:18 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:00:20
The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:00:22
!topic Welcome / roll call
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:00:33
I'll post the agenda in 2-3 minutes.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:00:33
As usual, let's wait a moment for everybody to show up.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:00:41
!hello
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:00:42
Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:00:49
hey, folks
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:01:48
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:49
John Himpel (jwhimpel)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:02:50
Yeah, welcome.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:03:24
Withj nirik lurking as always, we have our quorum and let's start.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:03:33
topic Agenda
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:03:42
!info Follow-up actions & announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:03:53
info Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:04:05
info Server user poll
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:04:13
!info Open Floor
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:04:13
!info Follow-up of the F42 server development and test cycle.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:04:31
Anything to add?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:04:55
Let's start
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:05:04
!topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:05:19
Regarding the action, nothing new. See
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:05:19
!link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2025/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:05:42
Nothing else from me today
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:05:54
Any announcement?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:12
OK, next
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:24
!topic 2 Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:35
link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/138
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:47
https://pagure.io/fedora-server/c/5647c4d701ab3d2b0cc95806bba3d4f2c5fbc162?branch=stg
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:47
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/ANSAGBZNK4LN72OWJLGCD2AFNSFGPFKW/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
And we wanted to keep the directory structure as flat as possible.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
We wanted the main level not so much technical as task-oriented. So instead of ansible, for example, Serveradmin, with capital first character as the home dir of Workstation.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
at the bottom of the page.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/blob/stg/f/fedora-ansible/roles/nfs_service
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:06:58
John and I had a great discussion 2 weeks ago, when we were alone. Among others we agreed upon a directory structue on the control node, as now documented on this page:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:20
The floor is open.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:09:13
That sounds fine
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:09:21
I think I need to develop a "beta" version of an rpm that will establish the "base" filesystem and related documentation for our ansible setup (on admin's workstation).
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:11:41
John Himpel: Yes, that would be great. I still was struggeling a bit with the files and their content. We (I mean you :-) ) should complete the files, e.g. the nfs_service.sh and nfs_service.yml. And include some instructions / comment how to add required information.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:12:26
I got it right one time and it worked. But unfortunately, I deleted the wrong files and have to repeat it.
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:13:13
I am a bit busy next week, but I'll try to put something together for discussion at our first meeting in May.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:14:09
if you need help, feel free to holler in the 'Fedora Server' matrix room or by email
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:14:39
Emmanuel Seyman: Thanks!
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:15:45
I'm not a registered packager, but in the past I've done some package for a private corporate repository. So assistance in following Fedora guidelines would be very welcome.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:16:27
Well, we can use COPR for the time being.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:17:06
Maybe, we create a user server-wg. We will have more rpms to build, I guess.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:18:58
Another question is, if we better align the file structure in the repro with the intended file structure on the controle node. That would make copying easier.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:20:42
tCopying is a bit awkward, anyway. pagure seems not to offer a copy / file download option as github does. At least I couldn'
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:20:59
Copying is a bit awkward, anyway. pagure seems not to offer a copy / file download option as github does. At least I couldn't find something.
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:22:34
Peter Boy: Not sure of the point you are trying to make. Let me create the "beta" rpm and then if we have issues, we can make changes as necessary.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:23:46
Yes, that would make copying superfluous. And also a change to the file structure? s, that
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:23:59
Yes, that would make copying superfluous. And also a change to the file structure?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:24:44
OK, I suppose, we can proceed?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:25:11
!topic 3. Server user poll
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:25:28
We wanted to fill:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:25:39
!link https://hackmd.io/@pboy/SJzz7VcFJl
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:26:51
Perhaps we were not very successful?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:27:34
Any idea how to proceed?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:28:24
I have things I want to add but I planned to do this after the next meeting
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:29:06
My question would be: What services do folks layer atop Fedora Server that our WG can provide additional docs or packaging that would provide added value?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:29:07
Emmanuel Seyman: Do you mean next week or 14 days?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:29:40
John Himpel: I'll add that later.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:29:55
I meant between the 04/29 and 05/01
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:30:43
OK.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:32:28
So, let's postpone to next week.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:32:56
!topic 4. Follow-up of the F42 server development and test cycle.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:33:14
Any addition to our discussion last meeting?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:33:40
There was some follow up
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:34:02
!link !link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/RNJIZYTZWQRGRZPU77UVKPXBK2TQL3AK/
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:34:13
!hello
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:34:14
Steve Daley (mowest)
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:34:19
Sorry, I'm late
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:34:43
mowest: Welcome nevertheless !!
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:35:16
Do you have anything regarding our previous topic?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:37:00
Well, I see no comment at the moment. Maybe we proceed? Or is anyone typing?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:37:37
!topic 5. Open Floor
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:38:05
It's quite a long time ago we had time for this topic :-)
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:38:48
The ZimaBoard 2 campaign has lauched on kickstarter : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/icewhaletech/zimaboard-2-hack-out-new-rules
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:39:49
I'm looking at the ZimaBoard 2 for a new firewall for the homelab, and then RPi5's for the servers is my dream, but RPi5 support for Fedora is not great yet, I believe.
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:40:14
A followup question regarding our ansible stuff. What license should I include in the rpm for the content? The contents will consists of several directories and files. The files (with the exception of the README.md) will have a single line comment for content. The README.md file will have maybe 100 lines of text explaining usage instructions.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:41:32
Welll, I had a discussion with the Risc V people. And I got our university supplier to provide me with 2 boards for review. It it works, we'll have a server-like OS on Risc V.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:42:27
And we might get a real Fedora Server image. So we have an alternative to ARM and RP 5 without those proprietary ingrediences.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:42:28
Peter Boy: what board is that ?
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:42:44
mowest: According to Peter Robinson, the code to support the i/o controller isn't ready to be included in the kernel yet. It may be two more kernel releases before it's ready (hopefully less). RPM Fusion has a working image that is bootable on an RPi5. I have been using that image and keeping it up to date with DNF5 with no issues.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:42:55
John Himpel: I would use whatever ansible uses (Apache2 ?)
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:43:39
Emmanuel Seyman: Thanks!. I'll look that up.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:43:41
Emmanuel Seyman: it is a 8 core Orange and a 4 core Star V something. The latter is the test board of Risc V sig.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:44:04
and supported by them.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:44:48
I'll get the boards end of next week.
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:45:27
Do these RiscV boards boot an iso image, or do you have to have a ready to burn image that you put onto the hardware?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:45:42
depends
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:45:45
Do these RiscV boards boot an iso install image, or do you have to have a ready to burn image that you put onto the hardware?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:45:54
some can do an ISO but most require disk images
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:45:56
Currently, the have an image , like the ARM boards.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:46:15
there are RISC-V systems that use UEFI+ACPI, and _those_ can use an ISO
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:46:59
As far as I know both of the board I'll get use images.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:47:01
but I only know of two such systems: the Milk-V Pioneer and the Framework 13 RISC-V
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:47:39
Do you know the price tag?
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
17:48:24
pioneer is about $550 USD (a few months ago) if i recall
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:49:04
Hm, really a deal :-)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:49:05
add $1k to that
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:49:12
Any idea how Fedora would perform on some of these RiscV boards. Jeff Gerling has had a few on his channel, and they tend to be lower performers than RPi 4 and 5's? My experience with Fedora on a RPi 3 was that it was unusable, however, I have heard that removing SELinux helps on the RPi3.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:49:13
it's about US$1600
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:49:16
https://milkv.io/pioneer
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
17:49:26
oh, i'm thinking of the hifive p550... 🙃
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
17:49:35
thanks Neal for keeping me honest
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:49:57
it's too expensive for me
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
17:50:16
framework is more affordable at ~$200 for the board
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
17:50:30
https://frame.work/products/deep-computing-risc-v-mainboard
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:50:49
mowest: I don't know yet. The Risc V guys compare it with RP 3.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:51:06
yeah, though the cores on that are basically the same as an SBC
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:51:12
which is why it's a low cost machine
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
17:51:42
http://fedora.riscv.rocks/koji/tasks?method=buildArch&state=closed&view=tree&order=-id can look at these for timing examples on builds
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
17:52:02
but like anything, performance depends on workload
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:52:12
https://deepcomputing.io/product/dc-roma-risc-v-mainboard/
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:52:27
Peter Boy: That is what I was afraid of. I was super unhappy with Fedora Server on an RPi4, I'm hoping that when we get full compatibility with RPi5 that it would be a solid experience there, and I could move my homelab to SBC's.
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:53:13
Peter Boy: That is what I was afraid of. I was super unhappy with Fedora Server on an RPi3, I'm hoping that when we get full compatibility with RPi5 that it would be a solid experience there, and I could move my homelab to SBC's.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:53:15
now that I'm looking at it, I don't know if the Framework mainboard is a UEFI one
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:53:29
there's no specific info for that
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:53:56
but yeah you should expect RPi 2 performance on these things
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:54:31
mowest: me too. I'm moving from a Synology to a Radxa Pi 4, at the moment. Much better performance as RP 4
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:55:08
at the price point to get many of these SBCs to be good, you're better off buying a Minisforum miniPC
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:55:16
far less stressful
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:55:28
or even some older ZOTAC machines
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:55:48
Just updated Fedora Sway on a "Potato" Samsung 15" Chromebook. 2gigs of memory and that slower celeron cpu makes some tasks like updates a little long, but the battery life is absolutely incredible on a 6 year old Chromebook.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:56:45
Conan Kudo: Yes, I use a Zotac witn an n100, too. Better performance, easier to handle, but needs more power.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:57:06
when you have a lot of them like I do, the Zotac works out just fine
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:57:20
Conan Kudo: You are right about the current prices of the best SBC's and miniPC's. I would like to move to SBC's more just to see what I can get working in my homelab with Fedora Server on a different arch.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:57:59
I think the Raspberry Pi 5 is going to be the first really decent "homelab" server-grade board
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:58:08
assuming that the UEFI firmware gets ported to the Pi5
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:58:34
but it will require similar tricks around cooling, power control, etc. that an actual server board requires
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:58:37
:q
<@mowest:fedora.im>
17:59:29
Conan Kudo: That is my hope. I'm kind of waiting for the thumbs up with Fedora on RPi 5's and then I think I would like to move to using one or two of them in my homelab instead of the 12-14 year old desktops that I'm using now.
<@mowest:fedora.im>
18:00:34
Peter Boy: Just to let you know, I added my questions just now to the HackMD document for the survey data evaluation.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:01:02
mowest: Great!!
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:01:15
Folks, our time is up.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:01:28
See you next week, then
<@mowest:fedora.im>
18:01:44
Thanks for a great meeting and discussion.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:01:52
Bye bye everybody!
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:01:54
bye
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:02:16
!endmeeting