2025-04-23 17:00:18 <@pboy:fedora.im> !startmeeting fedora-server
2025-04-23 17:00:20 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-04-23 17:00:18 UTC
2025-04-23 17:00:20 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'
2025-04-23 17:00:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Welcome / roll call
2025-04-23 17:00:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> I'll post the agenda in 2-3 minutes.
2025-04-23 17:00:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> As usual, let's wait a moment  for everybody to show up.
2025-04-23 17:00:41 <@eseyman:fedora.im> !hello
2025-04-23 17:00:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his
2025-04-23 17:00:49 <@eseyman:fedora.im> hey, folks
2025-04-23 17:01:48 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> !hi
2025-04-23 17:01:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Himpel (jwhimpel)
2025-04-23 17:02:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, welcome. 
2025-04-23 17:03:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> Withj nirik lurking as always, we have our quorum and let's start.
2025-04-23 17:03:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> topic Agenda
2025-04-23 17:03:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Follow-up actions & announcements
2025-04-23 17:03:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> info  Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
2025-04-23 17:04:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> info  Server user poll
2025-04-23 17:04:13 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Open Floor
2025-04-23 17:04:13 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Follow-up of the F42 server development and test cycle.
2025-04-23 17:04:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything to add?
2025-04-23 17:04:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> Let's start
2025-04-23 17:05:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
2025-04-23 17:05:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> Regarding the action, nothing new. See
2025-04-23 17:05:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2025/
2025-04-23 17:05:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> Nothing else from me today 
2025-04-23 17:05:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> Any announcement?
2025-04-23 17:06:12 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, next
2025-04-23 17:06:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 2    Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
2025-04-23 17:06:35 <@pboy:fedora.im> link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/138
2025-04-23 17:06:47 <@pboy:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/fedora-server/c/5647c4d701ab3d2b0cc95806bba3d4f2c5fbc162?branch=stg
2025-04-23 17:06:47 <@pboy:fedora.im> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/ANSAGBZNK4LN72OWJLGCD2AFNSFGPFKW/
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> And we wanted to keep the directory structure as flat as possible. 
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> We wanted the main level not so much technical as task-oriented. So instead of ansible, for example, Serveradmin, with capital first character as the home dir of Workstation. 
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> at the bottom of the page. 
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/blob/stg/f/fedora-ansible/roles/nfs_service
2025-04-23 17:06:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> John and I had a great discussion 2 weeks ago, when we were alone. Among others we agreed upon a directory structue on the control node, as now documented on this page:
2025-04-23 17:07:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> The floor is open.
2025-04-23 17:09:13 <@eseyman:fedora.im> That sounds fine
2025-04-23 17:09:21 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I think I need to develop a "beta" version of an rpm that will establish the "base" filesystem and related documentation for our ansible setup (on admin's workstation).
2025-04-23 17:11:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: Yes, that would be great. I still was struggeling a bit with the files and their content. We (I mean you  :-) ) should complete the files, e.g. the nfs_service.sh and nfs_service.yml. And include some instructions / comment how to add required information. 
2025-04-23 17:12:26 <@pboy:fedora.im> I got it right one time and it worked. But unfortunately, I deleted the wrong files and have to repeat it.
2025-04-23 17:13:13 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I am a bit  busy next week, but I'll try to put something together for discussion at our  first meeting in May.
2025-04-23 17:14:09 <@eseyman:fedora.im> if you need help, feel free to holler in the 'Fedora Server' matrix room or by email
2025-04-23 17:14:39 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: Thanks!
2025-04-23 17:15:45 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I'm not a registered packager, but in the past I've  done some package for a private corporate repository.  So assistance in following Fedora guidelines would be very welcome.
2025-04-23 17:16:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, we can use COPR for the time being.
2025-04-23 17:17:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> Maybe, we create a user server-wg. We will have more rpms to build, I guess.
2025-04-23 17:18:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> Another question is, if we better align the file structure in the repro with the intended file structure on the controle node. That would make copying easier.
2025-04-23 17:20:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> tCopying is a bit awkward, anyway. pagure seems not to offer a copy / file download option as github does. At least I couldn'
2025-04-23 17:20:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> Copying is a bit awkward, anyway. pagure seems not to offer a copy / file download option as github does. At least I couldn't find something.
2025-04-23 17:22:34 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Peter Boy: Not sure of the point you are trying to make.  Let me create the "beta" rpm and then if we have issues, we can make changes as necessary.
2025-04-23 17:23:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, that would make copying superfluous. And also a change to the file structure? s, that
2025-04-23 17:23:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, that would make copying superfluous. And also a change to the file structure? 
2025-04-23 17:24:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, I suppose, we can proceed? 
2025-04-23 17:25:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 3. Server user poll 
2025-04-23 17:25:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> We wanted to fill:
2025-04-23 17:25:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://hackmd.io/@pboy/SJzz7VcFJl
2025-04-23 17:26:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> Perhaps we were not very successful?  
2025-04-23 17:27:34 <@pboy:fedora.im> Any idea how to proceed? 
2025-04-23 17:28:24 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I have things I want to add but I planned to do this after the next meeting 
2025-04-23 17:29:06 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> My question would  be: What services do folks layer atop Fedora Server that our WG can provide additional docs or packaging that would provide added value?
2025-04-23 17:29:07 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: Do you mean next week or 14 days? 
2025-04-23 17:29:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: I'll add that later.
2025-04-23 17:29:55 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I meant between the 04/29 and 05/01
2025-04-23 17:30:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK.
2025-04-23 17:32:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> So, let's postpone to next week.
2025-04-23 17:32:56 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 4.  Follow-up of the F42 server development and test cycle.
2025-04-23 17:33:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> Any addition to our discussion last meeting?
2025-04-23 17:33:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> There was some follow up
2025-04-23 17:34:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link !link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/RNJIZYTZWQRGRZPU77UVKPXBK2TQL3AK/ 
2025-04-23 17:34:13 <@mowest:fedora.im> !hello
2025-04-23 17:34:14 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Steve Daley (mowest)
2025-04-23 17:34:19 <@mowest:fedora.im> Sorry, I'm late
2025-04-23 17:34:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> mowest: Welcome nevertheless !!
2025-04-23 17:35:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> Do you have anything regarding our previous topic?
2025-04-23 17:37:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, I see no comment at the moment. Maybe we proceed? Or is anyone typing?
2025-04-23 17:37:37 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 5. Open Floor
2025-04-23 17:38:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> It's quite a long time ago we had time for this topic  :-) 
2025-04-23 17:38:48 <@eseyman:fedora.im> The ZimaBoard 2 campaign has lauched on kickstarter : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/icewhaletech/zimaboard-2-hack-out-new-rules
2025-04-23 17:39:49 <@mowest:fedora.im> I'm looking at the ZimaBoard 2 for a new firewall for the homelab, and then RPi5's for the servers is my dream, but RPi5 support for Fedora is not great yet, I believe.
2025-04-23 17:40:14 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> A followup question regarding our ansible stuff.  What license should I include in the rpm for the content?  The contents will consists of several directories and files.  The files (with the exception of the README.md) will have a single line comment for content.  The README.md file will have maybe 100 lines of text explaining usage instructions.
2025-04-23 17:41:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> Welll, I had a discussion with the Risc V people. And I got our university supplier to provide me with 2 boards for review. It it works, we'll have a server-like OS on Risc V.
2025-04-23 17:42:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> And we might get a real Fedora Server image. So we have an alternative to ARM and RP 5 without those proprietary ingrediences.
2025-04-23 17:42:28 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Peter Boy: what board is that ?
2025-04-23 17:42:44 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> mowest: According to Peter Robinson, the code to support the i/o controller isn't ready to be included in the kernel yet.  It may be two more kernel releases before it's ready (hopefully less).  RPM Fusion has a working image that is bootable on an RPi5.  I have been using that image and keeping it up to date with DNF5 with no issues.
2025-04-23 17:42:55 <@eseyman:fedora.im> John Himpel: I would use whatever ansible uses (Apache2 ?)
2025-04-23 17:43:39 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: Thanks!.  I'll look that up.
2025-04-23 17:43:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: it is a 8 core Orange and a 4 core Star V something. The latter is the test board of Risc V sig. 
2025-04-23 17:44:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> and supported by them.
2025-04-23 17:44:48 <@pboy:fedora.im> I'll get the boards end of next week.
2025-04-23 17:45:27 <@mowest:fedora.im> Do these RiscV boards boot an iso image, or do you have to have a ready to burn image that you put onto the hardware?
2025-04-23 17:45:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> depends
2025-04-23 17:45:45 <@mowest:fedora.im> Do these RiscV boards boot an iso install image, or do you have to have a ready to burn image that you put onto the hardware?
2025-04-23 17:45:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> some can do an ISO but most require disk images
2025-04-23 17:45:56 <@pboy:fedora.im> Currently, the have an image , like the ARM boards.
2025-04-23 17:46:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> there are RISC-V systems that use UEFI+ACPI, and _those_ can use an ISO
2025-04-23 17:46:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> As far as I know both of the board I'll get use images.
2025-04-23 17:47:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but I only know of two such systems: the Milk-V Pioneer and the Framework 13 RISC-V
2025-04-23 17:47:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> Do you know the price tag? 
2025-04-23 17:48:24 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> pioneer is about $550 USD (a few months ago) if i recall
2025-04-23 17:49:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hm, really a deal  :-)
2025-04-23 17:49:05 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> add $1k to that
2025-04-23 17:49:12 <@mowest:fedora.im> Any idea how Fedora would perform on some of these RiscV boards. Jeff Gerling has had a few on his channel, and they tend to be lower performers than RPi 4 and 5's? My experience with Fedora on a RPi 3 was that it was unusable, however, I have heard that removing SELinux helps on the RPi3.
2025-04-23 17:49:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's about US$1600
2025-04-23 17:49:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> https://milkv.io/pioneer
2025-04-23 17:49:26 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> oh, i'm thinking of the hifive p550... 🙃
2025-04-23 17:49:35 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> thanks Neal for keeping me honest
2025-04-23 17:49:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's too expensive for me
2025-04-23 17:50:16 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> framework is more affordable at ~$200 for the board
2025-04-23 17:50:30 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> https://frame.work/products/deep-computing-risc-v-mainboard
2025-04-23 17:50:49 <@pboy:fedora.im> mowest: I don't know yet. The Risc V guys compare it with RP 3. 
2025-04-23 17:51:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah, though the cores on that are basically the same as an SBC
2025-04-23 17:51:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> which is why it's a low cost machine
2025-04-23 17:51:42 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> http://fedora.riscv.rocks/koji/tasks?method=buildArch&state=closed&view=tree&order=-id can look at these for timing examples on builds
2025-04-23 17:52:02 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> but like anything, performance depends on workload
2025-04-23 17:52:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> https://deepcomputing.io/product/dc-roma-risc-v-mainboard/
2025-04-23 17:52:27 <@mowest:fedora.im> Peter Boy: That is what I was afraid of. I was super unhappy with Fedora Server on an RPi4, I'm hoping that when we get full compatibility with RPi5 that it would be a solid experience there, and I could move my homelab to SBC's.
2025-04-23 17:53:13 <@mowest:fedora.im> Peter Boy: That is what I was afraid of. I was super unhappy with Fedora Server on an RPi3, I'm hoping that when we get full compatibility with RPi5 that it would be a solid experience there, and I could move my homelab to SBC's.
2025-04-23 17:53:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> now that I'm looking at it, I don't know if the Framework mainboard is a UEFI one
2025-04-23 17:53:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> there's no specific info for that
2025-04-23 17:53:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but yeah you should expect RPi 2 performance on these things
2025-04-23 17:54:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> mowest: me too. I'm moving from a Synology to a Radxa Pi 4, at the moment. Much better performance as RP 4
2025-04-23 17:55:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> at the price point to get many of these SBCs to be good, you're better off buying a Minisforum miniPC
2025-04-23 17:55:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> far less stressful
2025-04-23 17:55:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> or even some older ZOTAC machines
2025-04-23 17:55:48 <@mowest:fedora.im> Just updated Fedora Sway on a "Potato" Samsung 15" Chromebook. 2gigs of memory and that slower celeron cpu makes some tasks like updates a little long, but the battery life is absolutely incredible on a 6 year old Chromebook.
2025-04-23 17:56:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: Yes, I use a Zotac witn an n100, too. Better performance, easier to handle, but needs more power.
2025-04-23 17:57:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> when you have a lot of them like I do, the Zotac works out just fine
2025-04-23 17:57:20 <@mowest:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: You are right about the current prices of the best SBC's and miniPC's. I would like to move to SBC's more just to see what I can get working in my homelab with Fedora Server on a different arch.
2025-04-23 17:57:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think the Raspberry Pi 5 is going to be the first really decent "homelab" server-grade board
2025-04-23 17:58:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> assuming that the UEFI firmware gets ported to the Pi5
2025-04-23 17:58:34 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but it will require similar tricks around cooling, power control, etc. that an actual server board requires
2025-04-23 17:58:37 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> :q
2025-04-23 17:59:29 <@mowest:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: That is my hope. I'm kind of waiting for the thumbs up with Fedora on RPi 5's and then I think I would like to move to using one or two of them in my homelab instead of the 12-14 year old desktops that I'm using now.
2025-04-23 18:00:34 <@mowest:fedora.im> Peter Boy: Just to let you know, I added my questions just now to the HackMD document for the survey data evaluation.
2025-04-23 18:01:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> mowest: Great!!
2025-04-23 18:01:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> Folks, our time is up.
2025-04-23 18:01:28 <@eseyman:fedora.im> See you next week, then
2025-04-23 18:01:44 <@mowest:fedora.im> Thanks for a great meeting and discussion.
2025-04-23 18:01:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> Bye bye everybody!
2025-04-23 18:01:54 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> bye
2025-04-23 18:02:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> !endmeeting