2025-05-28 17:00:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> !startmeeting fedora-server 
2025-05-28 17:00:12 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-05-28 17:00:10 UTC
2025-05-28 17:00:12 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora-server '
2025-05-28 17:00:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Welcome / roll call
2025-05-28 17:00:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> I'll post the agenda in 2-3 minutes.
2025-05-28 17:00:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> As usual, let's wait a moment  for everybody to show up.
2025-05-28 17:00:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-05-28 17:00:39 <@eseyman:fedora.im> !hi
2025-05-28 17:00:40 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his
2025-05-28 17:00:49 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Hello, Peter !
2025-05-28 17:00:57 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hi Emmanuel!
2025-05-28 17:01:15 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> !hi
2025-05-28 17:01:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Himpel (jwhimpel)
2025-05-28 17:01:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> You was busy ( and succesful) with Ansible, I noticed
2025-05-28 17:01:30 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hi John!
2025-05-28 17:01:50 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Hello to Peter and Emmanuel
2025-05-28 17:02:11 <@eseyman:fedora.im> oh, it wasn't hard. I just needed to find the evening I needed to do it
2025-05-28 17:02:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, I think we should start.
2025-05-28 17:02:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Agenda
2025-05-28 17:03:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Follow-up of the F42 server development and test cycle.
2025-05-28 17:03:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
2025-05-28 17:03:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Follow-up actions & announcements
2025-05-28 17:03:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Open Floor
2025-05-28 17:03:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-05-28 17:03:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> It's exceptionally short, today.
2025-05-28 17:03:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything to add?
2025-05-28 17:04:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, let's start
2025-05-28 17:04:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
2025-05-28 17:04:36 <@mowest:fedora.im> !hello
2025-05-28 17:04:37 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2025/
2025-05-28 17:04:37 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-05-28 17:04:37 <@pboy:fedora.im> Regarding the action, nothing new. See
2025-05-28 17:04:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Steve Daley (mowest)
2025-05-28 17:04:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> Hi Steve!
2025-05-28 17:04:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/f42-elections-voting-is-now-open/
2025-05-28 17:04:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-05-28 17:04:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> The election is open:
2025-05-28 17:05:09 <@pboy:fedora.im> We should all participate and support those who also have an interest in servers and don't just have their eyes on the desktop.
2025-05-28 17:05:09 <@pboy:fedora.im> 
2025-05-28 17:05:41 <@eseyman:fedora.im> True. I'ld do that over the weekend
2025-05-28 17:06:15 <@mowest:fedora.im> I tried to vote one year after doing a few edits to documentation before I started working with the Server Working Group, and I was not allowed to vote. What are the requirements to be a voting members of Fedora?
2025-05-28 17:06:33 <@eseyman:fedora.im> True. I'll do that over the weekend
2025-05-28 17:06:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> is a FAS account.
2025-05-28 17:06:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> As fas as I know, it
2025-05-28 17:07:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> Maybe you should ask Aoife.
2025-05-28 17:07:12 <@mowest:fedora.im> I had a FAS account at the time, because I needed that to make a pull request.
2025-05-28 17:07:47 <@eseyman:fedora.im> To vote for the Council you must have cla_done in FAS.
2025-05-28 17:07:47 <@eseyman:fedora.im> To vote for FESCo you must have cla_done + one other "non-cla" group.
2025-05-28 17:08:31 <@eseyman:fedora.im> FTR, your FAS account: https://accounts.fedoraproject.org/user/mowest/
2025-05-28 17:08:40 <@mowest:fedora.im> I can ask Aoife, if I struggle to make my vote. 
2025-05-28 17:09:29 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: Didn't know that. So we should make our Server Group official.  That would coun't as non-cla group, I think.#
2025-05-28 17:10:14 <@eseyman:fedora.im> We could. If the Perl SIG can count as a group, I would think the Server SIG should as well
2025-05-28 17:11:15 <@mowest:fedora.im> Yes, I don't see Server Working Group on my FAS.
2025-05-28 17:11:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, in any case I'll ask Aoife. Currently, we have just a list on the (outdated) WIKI page.
2025-05-28 17:12:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> I think, I can manage that tomorrow, so we have time enough.
2025-05-28 17:12:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> Another issue:
2025-05-28 17:12:25 <@pboy:fedora.im> Next week Flock 2025 is running / starting. At least Emmanuel and me will participate. I'll be on my way to Prague, and Emmanuel, too, I guess.
2025-05-28 17:12:36 <@pboy:fedora.im> proposed !agreed The server meeting on Wednesday, June 4, is canceled in favor of Flock 2025.
2025-05-28 17:12:36 <@pboy:fedora.im> Therefor:
2025-05-28 17:13:37 <@mowest:fedora.im> I will not be able to attend. May and June in my vocation are impossible to get away. My schedule is much more free in July and August which is why I was able to make it to Flock last August. Have a great time, and I agree that we should cancel next week's meeting.
2025-05-28 17:14:57 <@eseyman:fedora.im> agreed
2025-05-28 17:14:57 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, June is a bit unfavorable, even for me. It's in the middle of the semester at university.
2025-05-28 17:15:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK
2025-05-28 17:15:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed The server meeting on Wednesday, June 4, is canceled in favor of Flock 2025.
2025-05-28 17:15:28 <@mowest:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman  is an amazing guy, and I really enjoyed the time that we got to spend together. I wish I could meet you Peter Boy .
2025-05-28 17:16:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, let's hope for next year, probably in North America, I hope for Canada. US could be difficult with the new government.
2025-05-28 17:16:38 <@mowest:fedora.im> Or I have to come up with an excuse to visit Germany, which I would love to do again. The last time was when I was a teenager.
2025-05-28 17:17:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> Germany is a worthwhile destination! (In my “completely objective” opinion)
2025-05-28 17:17:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> Let's go on.
2025-05-28 17:17:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 2    Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
2025-05-28 17:17:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/138
2025-05-28 17:18:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> I think, we have some interesting new development here.
2025-05-28 17:19:36 <@eseyman:fedora.im> So I finally made an rpm for a number of ansible roles
2025-05-28 17:19:56 <@eseyman:fedora.im> One of those being robertdebock's nfsserver role
2025-05-28 17:20:19 <@eseyman:fedora.im> All these rpms are in a copr for rawhide and F42
2025-05-28 17:20:34 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Testing welcome
2025-05-28 17:21:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> But  could that be an overkill for us? 
2025-05-28 17:21:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> I took a look at Robert de Bock's work, which is very very elaborate.
2025-05-28 17:21:33 <@mowest:fedora.im> I just assembled a new server for testing, so I'm hoping to give this a spin. Do we have a process documented for installing the RPM's and then running/configuring the ansible roles?
2025-05-28 17:22:00 <@mowest:fedora.im> I know nothing about Ansible at this point.
2025-05-28 17:22:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> mowest: Then you are an optimal tester!
2025-05-28 17:22:35 <@korora1981:matrix.org> I am also in the process of spinning a server up for testing, I can attempt to test these as weel
2025-05-28 17:22:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> (really)
2025-05-28 17:22:46 <@korora1981:matrix.org> I am also in the process of spinning a server up for testing, I can attempt to test these as well
2025-05-28 17:22:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️: you are welcome!!
2025-05-28 17:23:31 <@eseyman:fedora.im> To install the rpms: sudo dnf install <rpm>
2025-05-28 17:23:31 <@eseyman:fedora.im> To enable the copr: sudo dnf copr enable eseyman/ansible 
2025-05-28 17:24:06 <@eseyman:fedora.im> The best documentation on how to use each role is probably the github repo for that role
2025-05-28 17:24:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> What is the relationship between the NFS rpm and John's work?  John included a lot of Server specific item, as i see it.
2025-05-28 17:24:38 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> vips6349
2025-05-28 17:24:42 <@mowest:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️: You have been learning all sorts of new things and asking some great questions in the "Server" Room/Channel. You would be a great person to give feedback, you seem to catch onto things quickly.
2025-05-28 17:25:16 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: ???
2025-05-28 17:25:25 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Sorry about the previous chatter(noise).  Lost track of which screen I was using!
2025-05-28 17:25:26 <@korora1981:matrix.org> And I want to get more involved so, this is a way to do it
2025-05-28 17:25:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️: Even better!!!
2025-05-28 17:26:47 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> If I recall correctly, Rober's role does basic installation with little configuration.  My work does basic installation with a bunch of configuration options.
2025-05-28 17:26:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️: will you join Flock in Prague by chance?
2025-05-28 17:27:39 <@korora1981:matrix.org> Lack of funds/passport unfortunately. I'm with y'all in spirit though
2025-05-28 17:27:56 <@mowest:fedora.im> John Himpel: Do you have your NFS role packaged into a COPR repo too?
2025-05-28 17:28:18 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️ what a pitty.
2025-05-28 17:28:21 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I'm not bad-mouthing Robert's roles.  It's just a difference in scope and philosophy.
2025-05-28 17:28:49 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Mine are not in a COPR repo.  They are in the Fedora Server repository.
2025-05-28 17:30:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> One idea from our past discussion was to use the RdB rpms as a kind of library for the routine tasks, and to put our Seerver specific tasks in the center. Or am I remembering this wrong? 
2025-05-28 17:30:41 <@eseyman:fedora.im> That is what I have been suggesting
2025-05-28 17:31:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, obviously I undeerstood ot correctly.
2025-05-28 17:31:41 <@pboy:fedora.im> So, how do we want to proceed? 
2025-05-28 17:34:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> I think we should test the RPM to see how well it handles the server specific tasks. The reference point would then be the current documentation on manual installation and configuration. If I remember correctly, the manual installation and the Ansible playbook should give the same result, according to the documentation. 
2025-05-28 17:35:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> John's version can accomplish that, at least to some extent (as far as I got with my testing).
2025-05-28 17:36:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> But I'm not an expert in this area
2025-05-28 17:36:26 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> On the Server WG mailing list, someone suggested putting the roles into Ansible Galaxy.  I strongly support this suggestion.  It is where ansible users catalog/store/fetch roles.
2025-05-28 17:37:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel:   If I remember, we want to distribute the roles along with the existing Ansible rpms. Is that the same?
2025-05-28 17:38:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> They use a namespace like something-community-... We coudl use something-serveredition-....
2025-05-28 17:41:40 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> An ansible collection is one or more related roles packaged in a special format and uploaded into the Ansible Galaxy repository.  By doing that the end-user just references the collection in their local host for execution.  This insures getting the latest update.  RPM does the same sort of thing, but in a different manner.  It's sort of like using a java class from an rpm or using a java class from Maven Central.  Each will work, but the common tooling seems to best support the specialized repository.
2025-05-28 17:42:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, I learn a lot today  :-). So we have to determine the best way to handle it.
2025-05-28 17:45:23 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Again, either method will work.  Or we could support both.  Sysadmins that come from other distributions will be more familiar with Ansible Galaxy than RPM.  Sysadmins from fedora/rhel will be more familiar with rpm.  There is no harm in supporting both.  It's not much additional work to support both.
2025-05-28 17:46:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well, OK. I think, We are probably in agreement: we will use the next two weeks to test the available tools and decide how we can best achieve our goal of supporting services. And we will consider how we can optimize the distribution. 
2025-05-28 17:46:43 <@mowest:fedora.im> I'm very unfamiliar with Ansible Galaxy, but if that is the preferred way to get Ansible Playbooks perhaps we should use that specialize repo, and we use documentation to direct users to install from there.
2025-05-28 17:47:01 <@eseyman:fedora.im> having an rpm means that we can patch the role that is on galaxy.ansible.com if need be
2025-05-28 17:48:37 <@pboy:fedora.im> Folks, we are nearly out of time and we should switch to the next topic for at least a snort diskussion. 
2025-05-28 17:48:39 <@mowest:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman has a lot of experience with maintaining rpms I would appreciate his insight on what would be the most maintainable way to support roles/playbooks that we create for users.
2025-05-28 17:49:01 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I would suggest those going to flock, see if you can find a few moments to speak with Kevin Fenzi (nirit) about ansible distribution.  He's quite familiar with Standard Operating Procedures and is used to supporting production servers.
2025-05-28 17:49:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> Folks, we are nearly out of time and we should switch to the next topic for at least a short diskussion. 
2025-05-28 17:49:15 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I can do that
2025-05-28 17:49:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: Good idea!
2025-05-28 17:49:37 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> s/nirit/nirik/  Sorry the fingers have a mind of their own today.
2025-05-28 17:49:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> Can we switch now ??
2025-05-28 17:50:06 <@eseyman:fedora.im> yes, let's
2025-05-28 17:50:25 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 3.  Follow-up of the F42 server development and test cycle.
2025-05-28 17:50:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> no tracking issue yet
2025-05-28 17:51:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> As a reminder, we want to create a test day / test week. We should start soon!
2025-05-28 17:51:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> We have to agree on how we want to proceed!
2025-05-28 17:52:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> b) we need to put together what we want to test.
2025-05-28 17:52:55 <@pboy:fedora.im> (a) we need to contact QA to get the process started
2025-05-28 17:53:01 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I will run through the changes planned for F43 and highlight the ones that concern us the most so that we can test them
2025-05-28 17:53:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> In my opiniopn
2025-05-28 17:53:15 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I should be able to do it before Flock
2025-05-28 17:53:48 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, the change items are the third area in our test program.
2025-05-28 17:54:05 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Question:  Is the kickstart functionality gone from anaconda installs?
2025-05-28 17:54:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: Kickstart is not gone (yet), Just our remote interactive part of kickstart. Unfortunately!
2025-05-28 17:55:27 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Sorry, don't understand "remote interactive part".
2025-05-28 17:56:26 <@pboy:fedora.im> That is, you can prepare a kickstart USB which starte the VNC server parte, without any terminal or keyboard attached. Then you can perform the installation from your lap- or desktop.
2025-05-28 17:56:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> That very iomportant for Server in a data center rack, where attachning a terminal is often cumbersome.
2025-05-28 17:57:30 <@korora1981:matrix.org> Are there plans to completely remove kickstart from Anaconda?
2025-05-28 17:57:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> I don't think so.
2025-05-28 17:58:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> But sometimes things happen unintended.  :-)
2025-05-28 17:59:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> Regarding the test: We need someone who starts to compose a test list from our disussions over the last months. And we need someone, who is our representative für the  QA group.
2025-05-28 17:59:58 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I guess I need to try installing a clean F43 in a new VM using only a network connection for control  purposes and for installing packages.
2025-05-28 18:00:57 <@korora1981:matrix.org> Since I'm new to this, F43 is currently Rawhide, correct?
2025-05-28 18:01:08 <@eseyman:fedora.im> correct
2025-05-28 18:01:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: Yes, that's the first part. We should start with that immediate, as long as we are on rawhide and before the branch of 43.
2025-05-28 18:02:51 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> As soon as I get my nut servers working on all my hosts, I'll begin working on a clean F43 in a new VM.  I guess I need to use LVM as well.
2025-05-28 18:03:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️: Rawhide is the development branch. At some polint in time it will be branched to F43.
2025-05-28 18:04:30 <@pboy:fedora.im> From then on we are working in parallel: new things in rawhide and optimizing the existing in F43
2025-05-28 18:05:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, our time is up. We should continue on mailing list.
2025-05-28 18:05:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 4. Open Floor
2025-05-28 18:06:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> So that we don't always let this point fall by the wayside.
2025-05-28 18:06:48 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything to speak about here?  Unstringent through the agenda?
2025-05-28 18:08:17 <@pboy:fedora.im> Obviously there is nothing else here.
2025-05-28 18:08:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> Looking forward to seeing / reading you all again in 14 days: Same time Same place.
2025-05-28 18:08:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> Bye bye!
2025-05-28 18:08:41 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Looking forward to Flock, actually
2025-05-28 18:08:45 <@eseyman:fedora.im> bye, all
2025-05-28 18:09:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> !endmeeting