15:33:12 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting Fedora Tour Tuesday 13 March 1530 UTC 15:33:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Mar 13 15:33:12 2012 UTC. The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:33:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:33:20 <FranciscoD> #chair suchakra Subfusc praveenkumar 15:33:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Subfusc praveenkumar suchakra 15:33:26 <FranciscoD> I'll regulate it 15:33:30 <FranciscoD> ! for a statement 15:33:33 <FranciscoD> ? for a question 15:33:34 <FranciscoD> eof when done 15:33:43 <FranciscoD> I'll note and give you turns 15:33:47 <FranciscoD> #topic roll call 15:34:01 <FranciscoD> .fas FranciscoD 15:34:04 <zodbot> FranciscoD: ankursinha 'Ankur Sinha' <sanjay.ankur@gmail.com> 15:34:11 <Subfusc> .fas Subfusc 15:34:12 <zodbot> Subfusc: subfusc 'Sindre Wetjen' <sindre.w@gmail.com> 15:34:16 <suchakra> .fas suchakra 15:34:16 <zodbot> suchakra: suchakra 'Suchakrapani Datt Sharma' <suchakra@gmail.com> 15:34:19 <FranciscoD> #info Kishan couldn't make it 15:34:25 <FranciscoD> #info underscores missing in action 15:34:26 <FranciscoD> ;) 15:34:30 <FranciscoD> .fas praveenkumar 15:34:34 <zodbot> FranciscoD: saipraveenkumarprem 'saipraveenkumarkatteboina' <saipraveenkumarprem@yahoo.com> - praveenkumarjayaram 'Praveen Kumar Jayaram' <Praveen.Kumar.Jayaram@gmail.com> - praveen5557 'praveenkumar' <praveenkumar5557@gmail.com> - praveen 'Praveenkumar Baithi' <bpraveenky@gmail.com> - mittal 'PRAVEEN KUMAR MITTAL' <praveenkumarmittal28@gmail.com> - praveendwivedi 'praveen kumar dwivedi' (1 more message) 15:34:39 <FranciscoD> wuh oh 15:34:43 <Subfusc> LOL 15:34:47 <FranciscoD> .fasinfo praveenkumar 15:34:48 <Subfusc> thats some serious email mess 15:34:48 <zodbot> FranciscoD: User "praveenkumar" doesn't exist 15:35:00 <FranciscoD> tsk tsk, anyway we get the point XD 15:35:03 <FranciscoD> alright 15:35:19 <FranciscoD> agenda is here: #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-tour/wiki/meeting-agenda 15:35:25 <FranciscoD> please open her up 15:35:41 <FranciscoD> #topic Target Audience 15:35:44 <FranciscoD> ! 15:35:49 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 15:36:17 <FranciscoD> I propose that the target audience currently be limited to prospective fedora users, and first timers. 15:36:23 <suchakra> first time fedora users 15:36:27 <FranciscoD> ie, we design fedora tour keeping them in mind 15:36:39 <FranciscoD> suchakra: ! and wait for your turn :P 15:36:48 <FranciscoD> I have rationale behind this: 15:37:11 <FranciscoD> 1. I want to make a stable release with F17, so we need to limit the amount of work to be done. 15:37:42 <FranciscoD> 2. After the feedback received on the tour for first timers/prospective users, we'll have a better idea 15:38:16 <FranciscoD> 3. Advanced users differ, *greatly*. It may not be practical to write a program for them at all. Even the fedora wiki is sometimes insufficient! 15:38:19 <FranciscoD> eof 15:38:31 <suchakra> ! 15:38:36 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go 15:38:37 <Subfusc> ? by prospective users, do you mean people who have installed (or run from a live cd) users, or people browsing fedoraproject.org 15:38:51 <FranciscoD> (you can hit ! anytime) 15:39:09 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: both. We can have a version on the Live, and an online version. 15:39:22 <suchakra> Subfusc: includes al the scenarios you mentioned 15:39:25 <FranciscoD> It'll need addition of maybe a page or two, and then the same content will suffice. 15:39:34 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go, sorry for the interruption 15:39:52 <suchakra> 1. i agree on first timers 15:40:12 <suchakra> 2. maybe users switching from other distros need specific content 15:40:28 <FranciscoD> ! 15:40:38 <suchakra> FranciscoD: go 15:40:41 <Subfusc> ! 15:40:57 <FranciscoD> suchakra: lol, you finish first, then we'll continue ;) 15:41:05 <suchakra> ok 15:41:07 <FranciscoD> eof when you're done, then the next person with "!" gets his turn 15:41:15 <suchakra> yeah got that :) 15:41:58 <suchakra> eof 15:42:03 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 15:42:16 <praveenkumar> ! 15:42:25 <FranciscoD> I wouldn't want to make "users switching from other distros" a specific category here. 15:42:39 <FranciscoD> They can go through the tour and see what Fedora is about. 15:42:39 <FranciscoD> eof 15:42:41 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 15:43:30 <Subfusc> Wouldn't it be best to target only users who have installed or have booted a live cd so as to create specific content 15:43:41 <Subfusc> and rather use that as a showcase for prospective users? 15:43:43 <Subfusc> eof 15:43:52 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: go 15:44:00 <FranciscoD> ! 15:44:43 <praveenkumar> I think "users switching from other distros" only need to know about distro specific package manager, or it's better to make different cata as FranciscoD mention. 15:45:13 <suchakra> ! 15:45:24 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: go 15:45:24 <Subfusc> ! 15:45:46 <praveenkumar> eof 15:46:02 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: yes. Exactly what you said. The content made for first time users will be a majority of the content we create 15:46:23 <FranciscoD> For a live user, we'll need to make an extra starter page that goes "Welcome to the fedora Live CD!" 15:46:41 <FranciscoD> "You can have a go at fedora here, and if you like it, you can choose to install it" 15:47:12 <FranciscoD> "You can take the fedora tour to learn more about Fedora <link to tour starter page>" 15:47:16 <FranciscoD> then the same content kicks in 15:47:23 * FranciscoD hopes that made sense 15:47:24 <FranciscoD> eof 15:47:30 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go 15:48:21 <suchakra> i think FranciscoDs sugestions is good 15:49:04 <suchakra> for switching users who are new to GNU/Linux (i come across them daily) in general, 15:49:39 <suchakra> we need to create specific pages describing tools which they'll use daily 15:49:42 <suchakra> eof 15:49:52 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 15:50:02 <praveenkumar> ! 15:50:14 <underscores> hullo o/ 15:50:50 <Subfusc> I think we should avoid talking abut "a package manger (yum)" and rather the graphical frontends which exists on many distroes (like Apper and whatever gnome uses) 15:50:53 <Subfusc> eof 15:51:20 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: go 15:51:35 <FranciscoD> ! 15:52:17 <praveenkumar> For describing tools we can make a different category for daily used tools with detailed info. 15:52:18 <praveenkumar> eof 15:52:23 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: go 15:52:39 <FranciscoD> Lets start with our focus *only* on the first time user 15:52:55 <FranciscoD> As Subfusc said, avoid yum and terminal based tools, since they're used by *advanced* users. 15:53:05 <FranciscoD> Let us concentrate on what a first timer will use. 15:53:17 <FranciscoD> I have a list of things already, will discuss that in the next topic 15:53:20 <FranciscoD> Let's vote 15:53:25 <FranciscoD> hold on 15:53:50 <FranciscoD> #info First release of fedora tour concentrates on first time and prospective users, *not* advanced users. 15:53:56 <FranciscoD> cast votes 15:53:57 <FranciscoD> +1 15:54:14 <underscores> +1 15:54:16 <kishan> +1 15:54:18 <Subfusc> +1 15:54:21 <praveenkumar> +1 15:54:44 <suchakra> +1 15:54:51 <FranciscoD> great! 15:54:54 <Subfusc> 6/6 15:55:03 <FranciscoD> #agreed 6/6 First release of fedora tour concentrates on first time and prospective users, *not* advanced users. 15:55:08 <FranciscoD> next topic on the agenda then 15:55:45 <FranciscoD> #topic Target Fedora release (F17 would be nice!) 15:55:46 <FranciscoD> ! 15:55:48 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 15:55:57 <FranciscoD> I say we try to have something for F17 15:56:03 <Subfusc> ! 15:56:13 <FranciscoD> Even if it's small. 15:56:26 <FranciscoD> @17release 15:56:29 <FranciscoD> @f17release 15:56:45 <FranciscoD> drat, zodbot in here doesnt have the command 15:56:47 <FranciscoD> eof 15:56:59 <underscores> FranciscoD: Subfusc wants to say something 15:57:07 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: sorry, go 15:57:11 <FranciscoD> #info Fedora 17 release date is scheduled for 2012-05-08 14:00, which is in 7 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 3 minutes, and 8 seconds 15:57:29 <Subfusc> Since your the person in charge, I don't think you need to say ! and $self: go to initiate the topic 15:57:29 <Subfusc> :P 15:57:31 <Subfusc> eog 15:57:47 <FranciscoD> XD 15:57:58 <FranciscoD> okay, anyone got any thing to say about my suggestion then? 15:58:06 <suchakra> ! 15:58:07 <Subfusc> ! 15:58:12 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go 15:58:14 <praveenkumar> ! 15:58:50 <suchakra> something for f17. but what actually? its good if we can quantify what we are agreeing upon 15:58:54 <FranciscoD> type in your sentences and keep them ready, that's how tatica tells us to do it :P 15:59:03 <FranciscoD> ! 15:59:33 <suchakra> maybe a single page of introduction or maybe a few links? dunno how its gonna look good 15:59:35 <suchakra> eof 15:59:49 * suchakra notes tatica's suggestion 15:59:49 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 15:59:52 <Subfusc> We shouldn't relase if its to small or if it doesn't look finished IMO. eof 16:00:02 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: go 16:00:06 <praveenkumar> how small we are targeting? 16:00:07 <praveenkumar> eof 16:00:12 <suchakra> ! 16:00:17 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:00:21 <FranciscoD> Someting for f17 defined: 16:00:24 <FranciscoD> Everyone start running alpha images 16:00:29 <FranciscoD> Divide work based on who uses what DE 16:00:32 * FranciscoD can take GNOME 16:00:35 <FranciscoD> Subfusc needs to work on the combiner 16:01:03 <FranciscoD> Even if we manage 2 to 3 DEs, combined, the tour becomes pretty good. 16:01:09 <FranciscoD> The content that I had thought upon: 16:01:17 <FranciscoD> 1. Desktop 16:01:22 <FranciscoD> 2. Activity corner 16:01:40 <FranciscoD> 3. Quick tips (key board shortcuts such as alt f2, ctrl alt l) 16:01:45 <Subfusc> ? 16:01:49 <FranciscoD> 4. Network applet, network editor 16:01:54 <FranciscoD> 5. User control applet 16:02:00 <FranciscoD> 6. Online accounts 16:02:07 <FranciscoD> 7. Gnome package kit 16:02:22 <FranciscoD> 8. Empathy, gwibber (micro blogging) 16:02:27 <FranciscoD> 9. Movies, music 16:02:35 <FranciscoD> Note: can we talk of RPMFUsion? 16:02:44 <FranciscoD> 10. Simple printing 16:02:45 <Subfusc> ! 16:02:49 <FranciscoD> 11. Getting help 16:02:53 <FranciscoD> 11. Getting help* 16:03:00 <FranciscoD> * signifies common stuff amongst DEs 16:03:16 <FranciscoD> 12. Filing bugs using ABRT, retrace server * 16:03:23 <FranciscoD> That's all I've thought of currently. 16:03:27 <FranciscoD> Note that it's all GUI 16:03:34 <praveenkumar> 13. common games :) 16:03:36 <FranciscoD> It's all stuff that first timers could use. 16:03:54 <FranciscoD> I bunked games since I couldn't decide on what we'll say about them 16:04:05 <FranciscoD> Just mention them? Or explain them? 16:04:07 <FranciscoD> eof 16:04:08 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 16:04:11 <Subfusc> Activity corner, as in the gnome menu? 16:04:39 <FranciscoD> Yes. The left hand top, activating which brings up the activities screen 16:04:40 <suchakra> Subfusc: no i don't think so 16:04:51 <suchakra> FranciscoD: seriously? 16:04:58 <FranciscoD> Applications lists, dash, search 16:05:01 <FranciscoD> suchakra: yup 16:05:11 <suchakra> we need to tell about that? 16:05:23 <FranciscoD> It's handy, you don't need to find your application in a list, just searching for it in the search box is enough 16:05:34 <FranciscoD> You can also drag an application to a workspace, it'll start there 16:05:49 <FranciscoD> There's a lot of cool stuff that new users will like IMO 16:05:58 <Subfusc> do you suggest 2. Krunner or 2. Kmenu for KDE users? 16:06:07 <FranciscoD> Oh! And google docs integration too. Again, if you've set it up, just search and you have it. 16:06:31 <suchakra> FranciscoD: hmmm. i agree to this then 16:06:34 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: A KDE user will have to decide that. What is default would be our choice I guess? 16:07:01 <FranciscoD> we're all out of turn! sorry <eof>. Subfusc: you speak :) 16:07:20 <Subfusc> FranciscoD, nah, we are still within my ? 16:07:28 <FranciscoD> yep :P 16:07:32 <FranciscoD> eof? 16:07:43 <Subfusc> But more to the point, Krunner and Kmenu are two diffrent things, one is the alt + f2 runner 16:07:46 <Subfusc> the other is the menu 16:07:51 <FranciscoD> ! 16:07:56 <Subfusc> they both provides a lot of functionality 16:08:04 <Subfusc> oef 16:08:08 <praveenkumar> ! 16:08:09 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:08:15 <Subfusc> HEY, i had a ! first 16:08:16 <Subfusc> :p 16:08:26 <praveenkumar> Subfusc: ok go ahead :) 16:08:29 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: wait 16:08:49 <Subfusc> Yes, we should talk about RPMFusion. eof 16:08:49 <Subfusc> ;) 16:08:57 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:09:06 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: we could handle them separately. See point 3 of my GNOME thing. That's where I handle gnome's version of krunner. 16:09:23 <Subfusc> ! 16:09:37 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: I was referring to legal issues with mentioning RPMFusion. Not that I think there are any, but I will confirm once with legal. 16:09:40 <FranciscoD> eof 16:09:43 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: go 16:10:24 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: you already took my point, if Krunner and KMenu both are important then we can introduce both. 16:10:27 <praveenkumar> eof 16:10:33 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 16:11:27 <Subfusc> Krunner is not the same as gnome alt+f2. Its more like a small version of the menu, and it does A LOT of things. Imagine more of your activities search only prettier 16:11:31 <Subfusc> eof 16:11:35 <FranciscoD> ! 16:11:39 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:11:46 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: then we can have a page for krunner too. 16:12:05 <FranciscoD> Like I said, the person who will take up the responsibility of the KDE portion of the tour will decide. 16:12:12 <Subfusc> ? 16:12:21 <FranciscoD> It's upto his judgement, and yes, we can discuss it in subsequent meetings. 16:12:22 <FranciscoD> eof 16:12:23 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 16:12:30 <Subfusc> Who is going to write the KDE part? 16:12:31 <Subfusc> :P 16:12:35 <FranciscoD> ! 16:12:41 <Subfusc> eof? 16:12:47 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:12:47 * suchakra is only interested in Gnome 16:12:54 <suchakra> :P 16:13:14 <FranciscoD> We'll decide that in the next topic. 16:13:17 <FranciscoD> eof 16:13:26 <FranciscoD> So, are we clear on what the content is going to be? 16:13:30 <Subfusc> ? 16:13:34 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 16:13:50 <FranciscoD> (I meant content broadly) 16:14:10 <Subfusc> More on application side. Are we going to focus on 'the best' applications, or only 'dm specific' applications? (for things that are not default) 16:14:18 <FranciscoD> ! 16:14:39 <FranciscoD> eof Subfusc ? 16:14:49 <Subfusc> To be frank, gnome doesn't integrate QT very well, but GTK looks native in KDE 16:14:59 <Subfusc> so I have no problems showing gtk apps 16:15:01 <Subfusc> eof 16:15:07 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:15:10 <suchakra> ! 16:15:22 <FranciscoD> I think we should go with the default set of applications that each of the LiveCDs provide 16:15:28 <Subfusc> ! 16:15:47 <FranciscoD> or maybe the default set in the DVD. We can always look at comps for this. 16:15:54 <praveenkumar> ! 16:16:10 <FranciscoD> We can later add notes on "Alternatives", to enable users to try them out and choose what they want. 16:16:13 <FranciscoD> eof 16:16:14 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go 16:16:35 <suchakra> Subfusc: Qt integrates well in Gnome 16:16:46 <Subfusc> ? 16:16:54 <FranciscoD> suchakra: eof when done 16:16:57 <underscores> ! 16:17:00 <suchakra> eof 16:17:06 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 16:17:41 <Subfusc> by not default, i mean applications which has to be installed by yum or that doesn't have a default. E.G movie editing 16:17:44 <Subfusc> oef 16:17:50 <FranciscoD> ! 16:17:52 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: go 16:17:59 <praveenkumar> First we can go by default and later we can add "best" after gathering some best app from different DE. 16:18:02 <praveenkumar> eof 16:18:21 <suchakra> ! 16:18:26 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: i trust you asked your question? Or do you want another turn? 16:18:40 <Subfusc> Does Qt appications look native in Gnome or do they just look like QT ? 16:18:52 <Subfusc> (last time i checked, they did not look good at all) 16:18:59 <FranciscoD> ! 16:19:03 <Subfusc> oef 16:19:04 <praveenkumar> ! 16:19:08 <FranciscoD> underscores: go 16:20:13 <FranciscoD> timeout 90 seconds :P, then I pass to the next person 16:20:13 <underscores> Ok I want to say something: first of all we can only show application that come by default with the smallest downloadable and executable version of fedora (live CD) second: We should focus on applications everyone seems to be interested: word processing, office applications, music and webbrowsers and such stuff 16:20:18 <underscores> O_O 16:20:33 <Subfusc> ! 16:20:33 <underscores> I can type very fast but not that fast :P 16:20:39 <FranciscoD> underscores: eof? :P 16:20:42 <underscores> eof 16:20:46 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:21:05 <FranciscoD> I agree with praveenkumar and underscores. Lets start with default, keeping livecd applications in mind. 16:21:10 <FranciscoD> eof 16:21:14 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: go 16:21:55 <praveenkumar> now Qt app also look default in gnome, I checked some app. 16:21:56 <praveenkumar> eof 16:22:02 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 16:22:04 <Subfusc> eof 16:22:08 <FranciscoD> XD 16:22:15 <FranciscoD> okay, shall we take a vote then? 16:22:34 <suchakra> ! 16:22:39 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go 16:24:15 <Subfusc> LOL 16:24:23 <Subfusc> thats definetly eof 16:24:27 <FranciscoD> yeah, 16:24:29 <praveenkumar> :) 16:24:37 <FranciscoD> I'll give him a turn when he gets back. Probably network issues. 16:24:40 <FranciscoD> #info Vote: Concentrate on apps provided by LiveCDs by default, and then proceed to other apps provided by DEs, followed by other "good alternatives" in this order. 16:24:45 <FranciscoD> cast votes: 16:24:48 <FranciscoD> +1 16:24:52 <praveenkumar> +1 16:25:02 <Subfusc> + 16:25:05 <underscores> +1 16:25:08 <kishan> +1 16:25:27 <FranciscoD> suchakra: Voting on: Concentrate on apps provided by LiveCDs by default, and then proceed to other apps provided by DEs, followed by other "good alternatives" in this order. 16:25:36 <FranciscoD> please cast your vote, then you can have your turn :) 16:25:51 <suchakra> +1 16:25:52 <FranciscoD> or speak, clarify, then vote 16:25:55 <FranciscoD> great 16:26:05 <suchakra> ! 16:26:05 <FranciscoD> #agreed 6/6 Concentrate on apps provided by LiveCDs by default, and then proceed to other apps provided by DEs, followed by other "good alternatives" in this order. 16:26:07 <Subfusc> I'm so cool I only need to use the + 16:26:10 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go 16:26:14 <suchakra> yeah 16:26:24 <FranciscoD> XD 16:26:26 <suchakra> so as i was saying that Qt ap looks native now 16:26:48 <suchakra> eof 16:26:52 <FranciscoD> #info Qt ap looks native on gnome now 16:26:55 <FranciscoD> alright 16:26:59 <FranciscoD> that's another topic gone 16:27:02 <suchakra> FranciscoD: XD 16:27:03 * Subfusc needs to see it to belieive it 16:27:09 * Subfusc will check out gnome 3 16:27:19 <FranciscoD> #topic Division of labour ;) 16:27:26 * FranciscoD volunteers for GNOME3 16:27:31 <FranciscoD> whose using KDE? 16:27:33 <FranciscoD> or another DE? 16:27:37 <Subfusc> o/ 16:27:48 <underscores> I use KDE 16:27:54 * suchakra thinks that he has made his point way too loud and clear :P 16:27:55 <underscores> Subfusc too as it seems :D 16:28:05 <FranciscoD> so, underscores and Subfusc: you folks can do KDE? 16:28:14 * suchakra volunteers for Gnome 3 too 16:28:25 <FranciscoD> since Subfusc also needs to work on the combiner, two people will be better? 16:28:30 <underscores> if subfusc wants to work with me sure ^o^ 16:28:37 <Subfusc> FranciscoD, I don't have too much time, so I have to focus effort either on the combiner or the content 16:28:43 <FranciscoD> alright 16:28:44 <FranciscoD> so 16:28:50 <FranciscoD> #action Subfusc combiner 16:29:01 <FranciscoD> #action underscores (and Subfusc when he has the time) KDE 16:29:11 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD suchakra GNOME3 16:29:24 <FranciscoD> suchakra: you're the only designer, so you'll probably have more work to do 16:29:26 <Subfusc> I can be more like a talk to KDE about guy so underscores can know what to write 16:29:27 <Subfusc> :P 16:29:41 <suchakra> FranciscoD: thats ok 16:29:44 <FranciscoD> #action Subfusc help underscores in KDE 16:29:54 <FranciscoD> #action suchakra fedora tour design lead 16:29:57 <suchakra> FranciscoD: I get a bit tight on schedule but i'll take out time for this for sure 16:30:04 <underscores> Subfusc: We will have to do some informal descriptions about our app and its design from the very beginning :P 16:30:08 <FranciscoD> suchakra: it won't be much work, we promise :P 16:30:09 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: what you want me to do, install XFCE and explore it :) 16:30:12 <underscores> Subfusc: first plan then code is my motto :D 16:30:16 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: lol 16:30:22 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: what other DEs do we have? 16:30:39 <suchakra> FranciscoD: enlightenment 16:30:45 <FranciscoD> okay, how about we concentrate on GNOME and KDE for the time being? 16:30:48 <Subfusc> Who wants to do ratpoison or xmonad? 16:30:53 * suchakra uses it sometimes 16:31:04 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins_Custom 16:31:05 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: I thought we were doing it for first timers, not advanced users :P 16:31:11 <Subfusc> suchakra, I think it has been orphaned in F17 16:31:20 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: we cant do security and games and FEL and the rest. That's impractical 16:31:27 <FranciscoD> lets vote 16:31:36 <suchakra> Subfusc: thats sad :( 16:31:40 <FranciscoD> #idea Vote: Concentrate on Gnome and KDE for the time being 16:31:43 <FranciscoD> cast votes: 16:31:44 <FranciscoD> +1 16:31:46 <suchakra> +1 16:31:46 <Subfusc> - 16:32:01 <Subfusc> ! 16:32:02 <underscores> +1 16:32:18 * FranciscoD waits for praveenkumar and kishan 16:32:18 <praveenkumar> +1 16:32:19 <praveenkumar> ! 16:32:41 <FranciscoD> that's a majority already, so kishan can continue to be absent :$ 16:32:56 <FranciscoD> #agreed 4/6 Concentrate on Gnome and KDE for the time being 16:33:01 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 16:33:32 <Subfusc> We should atleast have XFCE since it will be a big fallback DM for lowend and non-3d-accel desktops 16:33:39 <Subfusc> and its a more traditional DM 16:33:40 <FranciscoD> ! 16:33:43 <Subfusc> eof 16:33:48 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:33:57 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: you forgot me :P 16:34:02 <FranciscoD> sorry! 16:34:04 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: go 16:34:26 <praveenkumar> same question as Subfusc pointed out. eof 16:34:34 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:34:36 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: go 16:34:50 <FranciscoD> The thing is, we need a contributor who uses LXDE regularly. 16:34:56 * suchakra is hungry :( 16:34:59 <FranciscoD> s/LXDE/XFCE 16:35:08 <FranciscoD> suchakra: just 10 more minutes, promise 16:35:08 <Subfusc> ! 16:35:14 <FranciscoD> As I was saying 16:35:20 * suchakra is waiting :) 16:35:46 <FranciscoD> Using a DE just to be able to write a tour is an undue burden. We could fish for another contributor in the XFCE sig if you folks think so. 16:35:49 <FranciscoD> eof 16:35:50 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: go 16:36:35 <Subfusc> We could have a really short one for XFCE in the start, which someone who only loaded XFCE in a VM could write. Then someone from XFCE community could add to that later 16:36:42 <FranciscoD> (remember that FOSS is all about voluntary contributions, so we need an XFCE volunteer. Cant assign it to anyone) 16:36:43 <Subfusc> or we should do this IMO 16:36:45 <Subfusc> eof 16:36:51 <FranciscoD> alright, that sounds good 16:36:54 <FranciscoD> lets put it to vote 16:37:17 <FranciscoD> #info Vote: Write a short XFCE tour to get it started and scout for a LXDE contributor 16:37:20 <FranciscoD> cast votes 16:37:21 <FranciscoD> +1 16:37:25 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: +1 16:37:32 <praveenkumar> sorry 16:37:37 <Subfusc> + 16:37:40 <praveenkumar> + 16:37:43 <suchakra> +1 16:37:45 <kishan_> +1 16:38:09 <FranciscoD> underscores: here? 16:38:13 <FranciscoD> anyway 16:38:30 <FranciscoD> #agreed 5/6 (1 didnt vote) Write a short XFCE tour to get it started and scout for a LXDE contributor 16:38:40 <FranciscoD> praveenkumar: can you get started on XFCE? I'll help you out? 16:38:46 <FranciscoD> kishan: you too? 16:38:48 <praveenkumar> FranciscoD: sure 16:38:51 <kishan> okay 16:38:58 <underscores> FranciscoD: yeah 16:39:08 <FranciscoD> #action praveenkumar kishan FranciscoD work on XFCE tour 16:39:24 <FranciscoD> #action suchakra Subfusc FranciscoD praveenkumar kishan underscores Scout for XFCE contributor 16:39:35 <FranciscoD> #topic mock ups 16:39:40 <FranciscoD> Lets briefly do this 16:39:43 <FranciscoD> ! 16:39:44 <FranciscoD> FranciscoD: go 16:39:47 <underscores> cwickert and maximillion 16:39:50 <underscores> :) 16:39:56 <FranciscoD> I have something to show: 16:40:03 <FranciscoD> http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour/mock_ups/live.png 16:40:08 <FranciscoD> http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour/mock_ups/index.png 16:40:14 <FranciscoD> http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-tour/mock_ups/gnome-first.png 16:40:26 <FranciscoD> #info wireframes, minimal mock ups 16:40:33 <suchakra> ! 16:40:57 <FranciscoD> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/creating-ui-mockups-in-inkscape-video-tutorial/ 16:41:00 <FranciscoD> eof 16:41:03 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go 16:41:08 <suchakra> small suggestion 16:41:24 <suchakra> anyone not comfortable with inkscabe from the start, 16:41:26 <FranciscoD> uh, the "links" in the live.png is extraneous 16:41:32 * FranciscoD goes to remove her 16:41:38 <suchakra> please use Pencil 16:41:58 <suchakra> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx 16:42:01 <FranciscoD> #info alternative to inkscape -> Pencil 16:42:05 <FranciscoD> ? 16:42:21 <suchakra> Its a awesome tol to create mockups and that too fast 16:42:44 <FranciscoD> suchakra: eof? 16:42:46 <suchakra> you can use it to make mockups in wireframe or even the way applications look 16:42:50 <suchakra> eof 16:42:57 <FranciscoD> suchakra: is pencil in the fedora repos? 16:43:04 <FranciscoD> is it FOSS? 16:43:04 <FranciscoD> eof 16:43:08 <suchakra> FranciscoD: its foss 16:43:17 <suchakra> if you have firefox 16:43:23 <suchakra> you can get it as an extension 16:43:27 <Subfusc> Haha, i thought you meant pencil, as in paper an pencil 16:43:27 <Subfusc> :P 16:43:33 <FranciscoD> XD 16:43:35 <kishan> me too :D 16:43:35 <praveenkumar> :) 16:43:36 <suchakra> and if you have xulrunner (its in fedora repo) 16:43:45 <suchakra> you can un it standalone 16:43:47 <suchakra> :) 16:43:51 <FranciscoD> ah! its an extension? 16:44:01 <FranciscoD> okay, folks, use whatever 16:44:13 <FranciscoD> but next week's meeting, same time will be to discuss mock ups 16:44:25 <FranciscoD> is a week enough? Or do you folks want more time? 16:44:36 <suchakra> FranciscoD: I'll be ready with some mockups by that time 16:44:37 <Subfusc> nah, its okay 16:44:45 <FranciscoD> kishan: praveenkumar underscores ? 16:44:46 <kishan> one week's good 16:44:50 <praveenkumar> it's fine 16:44:53 <underscores> one moment 16:45:02 <underscores> ok 16:45:04 <underscores> I'm fine 16:45:12 <underscores> with that I mean 16:45:18 <FranciscoD> so, next tuesday works for everyone then? 16:45:21 <Subfusc> Yeah 16:45:29 <praveenkumar> alright 16:45:30 <Subfusc> btw, code. Should i put it on fedora-tour git? 16:45:34 <suchakra> yeah (maybe! :P) 16:45:41 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: un momento :P 16:45:55 <FranciscoD> #info next meeting on Tuesday 20 March 2012 1530 UTC 16:46:03 * FranciscoD will update the agenda page 16:46:13 <FranciscoD> Please make as comprehensive mock ups as you can 16:46:24 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: you can begin to commit the builder code to git 16:46:36 <suchakra> ? 16:46:39 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: You will need to document it properly too. 16:46:52 <FranciscoD> ah! we have another topic to discuss! 16:46:56 <FranciscoD> suchakra: go 16:47:02 * FranciscoD almost forgot 16:47:10 <suchakra> whats the builder code? 16:47:12 <Subfusc> FranciscoD, isn't it documented properly? 16:47:26 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: i dunno, i havent tried it out yet :P 16:47:46 <FranciscoD> suchakra: we're writing content and css separately, and Subfusc is writing a tool that will combine them into html pages 16:47:50 <Subfusc> FranciscoD, are you reffering to --help or code documentation? 16:48:03 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: question: will the combiner handle javascript? If yes, how? 16:48:27 * suchakra notes that 16:48:27 <Subfusc> FranciscoD, depends on what kind of javascript you want 16:48:31 * FranciscoD is wondering if we're better off just writing the html and js and css files themselves instead 16:48:46 <Subfusc> if you know what you want and write it inline, it will take it in its current condition 16:49:03 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: ah, so no external js files that can be included? 16:49:06 <Subfusc> if you want to link or something, i would have to do some more programming 16:49:35 <Subfusc> no, not atm 16:49:39 <FranciscoD> Subfusc: I want you to really think if the combiner is worth your time. We can do HTML CSS JS on our own too. 16:49:56 <FranciscoD> lets discuss that after I endmeeting? 16:49:59 <Subfusc> yeah 16:50:09 <FranciscoD> Any one got anything else that needs the entire team? 16:50:19 <FranciscoD> I'll count down and then endmeeting 16:50:22 <FranciscoD> 5 16:50:28 <FranciscoD> 4 16:50:45 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD update relevant wiki pages and post logs to lists 16:50:46 <FranciscoD> 3 16:50:48 <FranciscoD> 2 16:50:50 <FranciscoD> 1 16:50:52 <FranciscoD> .0 16:50:58 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting