05:11:07 #startmeeting 05:11:07 Meeting started Wed Dec 2 05:11:07 2009 UTC. The chair is PhrkOnLsh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 05:11:07 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 05:11:16 #meetingname Fedora-tour backend discussion 05:11:16 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-tour_backend_discussion' 05:11:36 #topic fedora-tour backend, *format* 05:12:15 franciscod: have you put a lot of thought into the backend? 05:12:28 how are we going to intefrate this with the doc and mktg teams? to make it easy for them to pass us info? 05:13:18 I'm kinda thinking that a WebKit widget with local HTML would be good. That way we could pull content easily from wiki, publican, etc. 05:13:44 PhrkOnLsh: so we'd need to parse it up? 05:13:52 no, the webkit widget would do that :) 05:14:04 (we could parse it ourself, but I'm not that much of a masochist) 05:14:16 nor am i that good with Python or GTK right now 05:14:30 PhrkOnLsh: okay.. looks like you know this part ;) got me a link? 05:15:01 unfortunately not, I don't know enough about the GTK API (yet) :) 05:15:25 all i know is that there is a widget that embeds a webkit renderer inside of a GTK window 05:15:51 http://live.gnome.org/WebKitGtk <-- we have this 05:15:56 packaged in Fedora, already 05:16:05 not sure if it's pulled in by default on the desktop spin, but i'd assume so 05:16:09 PhrkOnLsh: brb shifting to th fedora project audi , folks just landed up :D 05:16:18 okay 05:17:06 #link http://webkitgtk.org/reference/index.html 05:17:43 #link http://code.google.com/p/pywebkitgtk/ 05:18:53 bk 05:19:32 franciscod: both of those links are webkitgtk, one is the C++ library, and the second is python bindings for it 05:19:41 okay.. 05:19:51 doing a quick search to see if they are included in Fedora, I can't imagine they'd not 05:20:34 PhrkOnLsh: looks good.. 05:20:43 both are packaged 05:20:49 .whoowns pywebkitgtk 05:20:49 PhrkOnLsh: ivazquez 05:20:52 still increasing the learning curve :P 05:21:02 .whoowns webkitgtk 05:21:02 PhrkOnLsh: pgordon 05:21:09 franciscod: naw, this makes it much easier :-) 05:21:15 :x 05:21:19 kay, see you soon 05:21:37 PhrkOnLsh: still increasing the learning curve :P 05:21:44 franciscod: naw, this makes it much easier :-) 05:22:03 one easy API compared to us writing our own parser :) 05:22:05 * franciscod doesnt know all this (yet).. 05:22:17 franciscod: neither do i, that's half the fun, no? :) 05:22:30 yup..it is.. :) anyway.. this seems like an okay thing tostart with.. 05:22:41 #topic content of the tour 05:23:02 PhrkOnLsh: what do we *exactly* want in here? 05:23:10 hmm 05:23:19 I think at a minimum 05:23:20 *welcome 05:23:25 *what is Fedora Linux 05:23:29 *getting help 05:23:33 *FAQ 05:23:36 *Applications 05:24:21 i was thinking, we need to differentiate it for a noob, and for the rest of the audiece.. 05:24:23 Preferably *Applications could differ, if, for example, KDE or LXDE or *DE was installed 05:25:16 noob side would have -> next next next next next next finish.. 05:25:51 instead of menu etc, dont u think? 05:26:01 I like that 05:26:21 franciscod: how would we differentiate 05:26:23 ? 05:26:45 the first 05:27:08 "slide" 05:27:26 aha 05:27:36 Yeah, I like that 05:27:53 hiemanshu|Laptop: I assume franciscod has filled you in on fedora-tour? 05:28:28 PhrkOnLsh, I really dont mind joining in 05:28:36 hiemanshu|Laptop: awesome :-) 05:28:37 would have "beginners click here" sorta thng? 05:28:49 PhrkOnLsh, he is sitting here right next to me 05:28:51 franciscod: I think an "advaced users click here" would be better... 05:28:56 hiemanshu|Laptop: I know :) 05:29:25 I mean on the entire thinger, not just this meeting :) 05:29:27 PhrkOnLsh, I am in mktg as well, SO i could join in 05:29:33 awesome! 05:29:43 .fasinfo hiemanshu|Laptop 05:29:44 hiemanshu|Laptop: User "hiemanshu|Laptop" doesn't exist 05:29:45 err 05:29:45 We're already up to 4 members without a single line of code ;) 05:29:48 .fasinfo hiemanshu 05:29:49 hiemanshu|Laptop: User: hiemanshu, Name: Hiemanshu Sharma, email: hiemanshu@gmail.com, Creation: 2009-06-19, IRC Nick: hiemanshu, Timezone: Asia/Kolkata, Locale: en, Extension: 5132798, GPG key ID: 7A77244D, Status: active 05:29:53 hiemanshu|Laptop: Approved Groups: cla_done web fedorabugs sysadmin-web sysadmin marketing cla_fedora sysadmin-test blogadmin 05:29:57 hiemanshu|Laptop: Unapproved Groups: None 05:30:03 PhrkOnLsh: i was thinking of a flashy baby looking button for noobs.. 05:30:09 PhrkOnLsh, I am good with a bit of design and stuff and i can help you with that 05:30:18 franciscod, no flash please 05:30:26 not flash, flashy :) 05:30:34 ah 05:31:28 franciscod: I think that would be a good idea 05:31:45 PhrkOnLsh, n00b like flashy buttons 05:31:52 PhrkOnLsh: needless to say, the beginner tour is a subset of the whole info that we have.. with a spoon feading interface.. makes sense? 05:32:03 hiemanshu|Laptop: big GTk themed buttons, with icons on them ;) 05:32:15 franciscod: yes, it does 05:32:32 #idea differentiate beginner and general ui 05:32:41 I think there is a point where we need to draw the line between tour and documentation. We shouldn't really put *too* much in it, I think. 05:32:41 PhrkOnLsh, thats what people like, 10 feet interface. So you dont really have problems looking around 05:33:08 people know what RTFM means, but i dont think much people follow it 05:33:22 PhrkOnLsh: yeah.. im confused with the difference.. 05:33:22 so putting in Docs is shit 05:33:41 hiemanshu|Laptop: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora-tour 05:34:04 sorta why i had picked up with content.. 05:34:26 franciscod: what hiemanshu|Laptop said; we don't need (or want) to include the entire docs set, or any significant part of it 05:34:35 In tour we want to show the features of stuff 05:34:48 and not how to use em 05:35:19 PhrkOnLsh: i think pinging the docs list would be good for this? theyd know how much to put in here..? 05:35:37 NO DOCS IN THE TOUR. PERIOD! 05:35:42 and obviously the marketing list.. ? 05:35:57 franciscod: I did, but Docs hasn't replied :) 05:36:23 PhrkOnLsh: okay.. 05:36:30 i'll harass them on IRC tomorrow or soonish 05:36:52 #action PhrkOnLsh franciscod make a definite content set 05:37:01 If you have seen the Windows tour, they talk about the features and not how to get that stuff working 05:37:23 hiemanshu|Laptop: yeah.. but we arent basing the thing on the windows tour.. 05:37:25 I think it's more of a draw the line on where to stop, not that we need to define what should be in it exactly. 05:37:39 franciscod: we should be taking it into consideration, though 05:37:49 So getting in docs just making them bore 05:38:41 PhrkOnLsh: +! 05:38:45 +1 05:38:47 #agreed 05:39:16 #action franciscod PhrkOnLsh decide the exact place to draw the line ;) 05:40:10 franciscod, not a meeting so doing this stuff wont help :P 05:40:31 #topic version 1.0 to have both gtk and qt? 05:40:42 hmmm 05:40:47 PhrkOnLsh: ^ what say? 05:41:06 thinking... 05:42:04 franciscod: we need to be sure we aren't spreading ourselves too thin. Neither of us have experience in either PyGTK or PyQt, and unless we have others on-board willing to help (hiemanshu and tatica on board is awesome) we may end up getting in over our heads.. 05:47:38 hmm 05:47:41 SVG? 05:47:43 quaid, yes 05:47:53 svg would work.. 05:47:54 quaid: we had discussed doing that, but I think that mchua_afk was against such an idea 05:48:30 yeah SVG should work too actually 05:48:42 * quaid thinks that sqlite might even be already present, doesn't Firefox use it? 05:49:27 ... and with that, I have immediately left my depth -- no skills to implement, just know enough visualize it :D 05:49:34 sqlite is present by default IIRC 05:49:37 yes 05:50:14 oh look! late-night party goin on 05:50:16 :) 05:50:20 :) 05:50:23 keeping you company 05:50:31 rbergeron: care to join :) 05:51:08 * rbergeron is trying to catch up 05:51:29 quaid: im not sure how we'd use sqlite though, u mean make a databse before hand? and use that? 05:51:42 is that your vision i mean ;) ? 05:51:48 rbergeron, its 11:20 here :) 05:52:08 wow, what time zone are you in :) 05:52:08 Well why do we need a DB? 05:52:15 hmm, I was thinking of AJAX, but I'm not sure we could 05:52:15 rbergeron, +5.30 05:52:22 rbergeron, we are at FOSS.in 05:52:25 work that without also havning an HTTP server 05:52:26 ahhhh 05:52:36 quaid, we could have AJAX inside a browser actually 05:52:46 and you dont need a webserver to display html pages 05:52:49 using sqlite would be, parsing info from the doc team, putting it into a db and then using it again for the final thing.. 05:52:54 right 05:53:02 s/doc/marketing and doc/ 05:53:03 rbergeron, kital is speaking on Fedora Security Spin right now 05:53:29 noted 05:53:47 * rbergeron is not so technical since taking a permanent leave of absence from sysadminhood 10 years ago 05:53:48 yay for spin talks 05:53:50 :) 05:54:00 rbergeron: like riding a bike ... 05:54:15 more like riding a unicycle. do i _really_ want to get back on :) 05:54:17 * hurts when you fall, but more now that you are bigger/taller. 05:54:17 quaid: I think that static HTML or XML pages would be easier than sqlite in this instance 05:54:17 etc. 05:54:42 PhrkOnLsh: yeah; I was thinking that AJAX needed a server side to be useful, but I guess that is not correct :) 05:54:58 AJAX would. plain javascript wouldn't. 05:55:23 PhrkOnLsh: im still thinking of a separate app.. 05:55:26 AJAX == update webpages without refreshing, by only posting back certain parts of the page to the server (using JS) 05:55:29 franciscod: I am too 05:55:33 what's the end goal here if i can ask :) 05:56:14 rbergeron: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora-tour 05:56:15 rbergeron: give users (new to linux, new to fedora, and more veteran users) a quick portal to exploring Fedora Linux and the Fedora Project 05:56:19 basically 05:56:19 PhrkOnLsh, AJAX basically is JS calls 05:56:30 hiemanshu|Laptop: AJAZ -is- JS calls, but to a server backend 05:56:36 yeah.. AJAX discussion later please folks.. 05:56:36 AJAX* 05:56:42 franciscod: +1 05:56:44 franciscod, lol 05:56:53 We should probably wrap this up, though, dad's making me go to bed 05:57:03 agreed that a browser-based static set of pages is less useful -- e.g., browser is limited with what it can write to the file system 05:57:09 I think I'll do some designing under the sheets though, and have some ideas tomorrow 05:57:24 PhrkOnLsh: +1 okay.. 05:57:32 im beginning with a pygtk tut though.. 05:57:44 you guys are free to continue, I just have to go :) 05:57:44 start looking a bit? 05:57:52 franciscod: good idea, let me grab one 05:58:26 PhrkOnLsh: http://www.pygtk.org/dist/pygtk2-tut.pdf 05:58:37 thanks! 05:59:13 PhrkOnLsh: does end meeting make sense ? will it work? since zodbot_ ran out on us :| 05:59:26 franciscod: not really, huh? :/ 05:59:40 I have scrollback, let me paste it to my fp.o tomorrow 05:59:55 PhrkOnLsh: i have a log on , ill put it up.. no worries.. 05:59:59 okay, awesome 06:00:07 do an endmeeting for the heck of it.. 06:00:15 hopefully someone can end it when zodbot gets back from vacay or else there will be one massive log somewhere ventually :) 06:00:18 wouldnt want zodbot logging everything.. 06:00:46 #endmeeting