15:01:02 <mdomsch> #startmeeting Fedora Board Townhall Questions
15:01:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Nov 19 15:01:02 2010 UTC.  The chair is mdomsch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:17 <mdomsch> <cwickert> q: the board has given us a new target audience, the non-techical users. when was the last time you have been to an event, doing booth service and have talked to a person who is new to linux?
15:01:39 <abadger1999> mdomsch: Thanks
15:01:41 <mdomsch> #chair abadger1999
15:01:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 mdomsch
15:01:47 <cwickert> q: the board has given us a new target audience, the non-techical users. when was the last time you have been to an event, doing booth service and have talked to a person who is new to linux?
15:02:03 <abadger1999> or cwickert :-)
15:02:33 <Southern_Gentlem> ? What is your vision for the future  of Fedora, and what issue do you foresee  in the next 2-5 years?
15:02:42 <mdomsch> FYI, current nominees are http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Elections/Nominations
15:03:07 <abadger1999> Southern_Gentlem: thank you.  That'll be question #2
15:03:46 <marcus> ? there has been some discrepancy between the non-Red Hat and Red Hat part of the community, what's your vision on improving communication between both.
15:04:08 <inode0> q: Can community buy-in to a vision be measured? Does it matter? What happens without it?
15:04:18 <abadger1999> marcus: Thanks.  queued as question #3
15:04:30 <abadger1999> inode0: queued as question #4
15:05:50 <abadger1999> cwickert: do you want any followup?
15:07:02 <inode0> I can followup more directly
15:07:06 <abadger1999> <nod>
15:07:51 <inode0> Do we really come into much contact with our new target audience - some show up, but do we need to do something different to reach them in large numbers?
15:08:53 <inode0> or you can ignore that followup, but I sort of think the point of the question was missed :)
15:09:28 <abadger1999> inode0: <nod>  I'll put that in next as 1b
15:09:34 <marcus> ? some subprojects like ambassadors often have very innovative ideas. how can we make sure these are shared with/applied to other subprojects?
15:10:32 * inode0 thinks ambassadors should be more active as ambassadors within the project directly
15:10:52 <abadger1999> marcus: <nod>  That will be question #5
15:12:14 <cwickert> q: Do you think the board has done a good job in listening to the community before making new 'visions'? Is there enough input from the community? (not sure this question came trough already))
15:12:33 <NiveusLuna> cwickert: it did not that I saw.
15:12:37 <abadger1999> cwickert: k
15:13:23 <skvidal> Q: Since fedora started - does the board think how people use computers and the internet at large has changed and does our current target audience reflect that change in computing style?
15:13:31 <inode0> cwickert: it is related to my question and abadger1999 can merge them if he wants
15:14:41 <cwickert> inode0, my first or the second one?
15:15:07 * mdomsch is glad to see all the questions being raised
15:15:59 <abadger1999> skvidal: okay you have question #6
15:16:06 <skvidal> abadger1999: thanks
15:16:48 <inode0> mdomsch: it seems very strange not asking you these questions
15:17:10 <mdomsch> inode0: everyone else is doing fine; I'll step in if it gets quiet :-)
15:17:37 * mdomsch misread inode0's comment
15:18:12 <mdomsch> s/not asking you/you not asking/
15:18:42 <cwickert> q: quoting our former FPL Max: "I think one of the things Fedora needs to do is to reduce the total amount of governance and bureaucracy that it has". Do you think there is too much governance and if so, what are you going to do about it?
15:19:28 <abadger1999> cwickert: good one -- That will be the actual #6.. .skvidal's is #5.
15:19:51 <cwickert> thanks abadger1999
15:20:05 <inode0> honey!
15:21:15 <mdomsch> for the record, I don't find this us-vs-them line of discussion fruitful
15:21:34 <jsmith> mdomsch: Neither do I... some of us are both us *and* them :-/
15:22:24 <skvidal> jsmith: no - I'd say you're one of them
15:22:27 <skvidal> mdomsch: is clearly one of us
15:22:30 <inode0> if it ever leads to it not being discussed it might be fruitful
15:22:37 <abadger1999> I see an us-vs-them attitude but... I don't think it's split down RH/non-RH lines in a long time.
15:22:39 <skvidal> now you two should fight
15:22:51 <honey> oh!
15:23:15 <honey> hello inode0. i was trying to creep in under an invisibility cloak :)
15:23:22 * jsmith doesn't remember his brains getting swapped out with red jello when he took on the FPL role
15:23:40 <rbergeron> jsmith: that means it worked
15:23:44 <rbergeron> :)
15:23:55 * rbergeron grins
15:24:05 <jsmith> rbergeron: You're one to be talking now :-p
15:24:32 <rbergeron> indeed
15:24:33 <abadger1999> jsmith: just don't need brain surgery until your exit interview :-)
15:24:43 <jsmith> Also interesting to note that the RH folks don't always agree with each other
15:24:52 <marcus> that's true
15:24:54 <jsmith> abadger1999: Nom nom jello brains nom nom...
15:24:58 <skvidal> the rh folks don't agree with anyone
15:25:04 <skvidal> we're right bastards, we are
15:25:28 <cwickert> mdomsch, what question do you consider us-vs-them=
15:25:29 <cwickert> ?
15:25:36 <marcus> but i did not really mean the technical part of the community, perhaps the better wording would be how to improve communication between fedora and the company.
15:25:55 <abadger1999> cwickert: I think it was #3
15:26:00 <inode0> I really don't see the difference quite on that level, but there is a natural difference between the way people think about things if they work full time on something and if they are more casual here and there contributors that can cause friction.
15:26:47 <inode0> One side of that is much more motivated by productivity than the other
15:26:53 <cwickert> abadger1999, what was #3? my follow-up to 1?
15:27:11 <abadger1999> cwickert: [07:20:05] <abadger1999> 3: marcus: there has been some discrepancy between the non-Red Hat and Red Hat part of the community, what's your vision on improving communication between both.
15:28:43 <marcus> the question is based on the discussion that has been raised on the ambassadors list, a while back: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-November/016091.html
15:29:23 <cwickert> this younds indeed a little us-vs-them, but I consider it a valid question. obviously it worries people
15:30:52 <cwickert> marcus, my mail was not meant to be a general us-vs-them thing, but 2 of the 20 examples I listed really had something to do with red hat empoyees
15:31:07 <marcus> mine not, too :)
15:31:39 <marcus> it was an interpretation
15:31:55 <abadger1999> We may have enough time for one... possibly two more questions depending on how briskly I move people to the other two I have queued.
15:32:01 <abadger1999> Any takers?
15:32:14 <mdomsch> we need a way to distinguish the candidates...
15:32:41 <marcus> ? how can we make sure money (which does not come from Red Hat) can be funded to the project?
15:34:38 <inode0> q: if you could add two more F's to our foundations, what would they be?
15:35:02 <abadger1999> q: what's the most important skill for a board member to have?
15:35:21 <mdomsch> ? Picture a world in 5 years where Windows has 98% desktop penteration, Ubuntu has 2%.  What is Fedora's role in that world?  How will you help get it there?
15:35:45 <abadger1999> ooh... a bunch of nice questions :-)
15:35:53 <KageSenshi> q: what would the board do to handle issues where package maintainers refuses to fix a usability bug (or even other bug) which break stuff or made stuff harder for everyone ..
15:36:22 <abadger1999> okay guys, we're only going to get two of these in... which two do you want?
15:36:43 <mdomsch> with respect, KageSenshi's is FESCo material
15:36:46 * jsmith likes the questions about adding to more F's
15:36:49 <KageSenshi> mdomsch, ah ok
15:37:10 <mdomsch> jsmith: +1
15:37:13 <KageSenshi> mdomsch, guess i missed it :)
15:37:23 * abadger1999 agrees that that would normaly go before fesco
15:37:44 <cwickert> jsmith, how about fulfilling our foundations first before we add more? We are no longer first and there is not much freedom left
15:37:55 <KageSenshi> that question came up to me in this past few days .. due to recent experiences ..
15:37:57 <abadger1999> so we have a couple votes for inode0: if you could add two more F's to our foundations, what would they be?
15:38:03 <abadger1999> <nod>
15:38:11 <skvidal> haha
15:38:17 * skvidal can think of some f's
15:38:40 <cwickert> jsmith, on a completely unrelated thing: are you already on the way to Rheinfelden?
15:38:52 <jsmith> cwickert: I'm already here -- sitting in the castle :-)
15:39:15 <cwickert> jsmith, I will arrive at 6:50 pm at Rheinfelden
15:39:26 <jsmith> cwickert: OK... sounds great!
15:39:45 <cwickert> yeah, Gerold said something about dinner around 8
15:39:46 <abadger1999> skvidal: Do you want to ask a followup to your question?
15:39:58 <skvidal> nah
15:40:01 <abadger1999> k
15:40:03 <jsmith> cwickert: Yes, that's the plan.
15:44:23 <abadger1999> question #7 will be inode0:  if you could add two more F's to our foundations, what would they be?
15:46:35 <abadger1999> I think I'll let the candidates have free discussion if there's time left afterwards unless someone has a burning desire to have one of the other suggested questions answered.
15:47:39 <inode0> that sounds fine, or something open ended like is there any important point you'd like to make before we close ...
15:48:20 <abadger1999> <nod>  good starter.
15:51:13 <abadger1999> that's an interesting raph.
15:51:16 <abadger1999> *graph
15:51:59 <inode0> the downtick was a purge
15:52:35 <inode0> followed by a more guided admittance process
15:53:57 <inode0> it is interesting I think that the early part and the late part track in the same way, so the self-selection from early on eventually failed but perhaps is being recaptured with some intervention now
15:55:19 <abadger1999> <nod>  what was the uptick prior to the purge?
15:56:06 <inode0> lots of people suddenly joining ambassadors as a fedora fan club, I don't know what caused that
15:57:48 <abadger1999> interesting.
16:00:10 * rbergeron wants to thank abadger1999 for volunteering his time today and helping to make this an excellent townhall :)
16:00:15 <inode0> abadger1999: thanks again for helping out today - this has been a very nice town hall
16:00:18 <rbergeron> along with the rest of the candidates
16:00:31 <rbergeron> or along with the candidates, i should say ;)
16:01:28 <abadger1999> inode0, rbergeron: Thank you!  I'm here to serve.
16:02:08 <inode0> rbergeron: keep going
16:02:39 * inode0 notes 43 people in public is a larger than normal turnout here
16:03:00 * rbergeron thanks everyone else for all their awesome questions and for participating!
16:03:11 <rbergeron> hey, when do elections start? :)
16:03:13 <jreznik> inode0: it was a good idea to have only one townhall
16:04:09 <abadger1999> on the 20th (UTC)
16:04:17 <rbergeron> oh hey, that's really soon!
16:04:20 <abadger1999> So tomorrow :-)
16:04:28 <rbergeron> REALLY, maybe we should advertise that a bit.
16:04:34 * rbergeron is being slightly tongue in cheek here ;)
16:04:36 <abadger1999> or.. later today depending on where you're living
16:05:57 <abadger1999> mdomsch: I really liked your question too.
16:06:08 <mizmo> someone should totally rip this off for this election http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/its-fedora-election-season/
16:06:11 <abadger1999> I wish we could have gotten to it.
16:06:23 * mizmo is knee-deep in girl scout usb troubles otherwise she'd do it
16:06:53 <jreznik> rbergeron: +1 to advertise it
16:07:06 * ke4qqq read that at first as mizmo is knee-deep in girl scout cookies - :) now I am hungry
16:07:06 <mdomsch> mizmo is the league of women voters
16:08:13 <rbergeron> wow, i would have totally run for the board if i had known that everyone gets to sit in eames molded plastic side chairs
16:08:26 * rbergeron wonders if you get one as a souvenir cuz it would look really cute in her house
16:09:27 <rbergeron> mizmo: i'll totally rip that off, unless someone else wants to volunteer to do so
16:10:01 <mizmo> rbergeron, please feel free :)
16:10:22 * rbergeron will call dibs on moblogheist unless anyone else objects
16:10:31 * rbergeron looks around.. ok, MINE
16:12:08 <abadger1999> :-)
16:14:04 <inode0> jsmith: is an appointment coming before the election as is the custom?
16:15:44 <jsmith> inode0: Should be announced in the next twenty minutes or so -- just putting a few finishing touches on the email
00:20:24 <red_alert> voting is now open: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting/
00:33:17 <red_alert> rbergeron: thanks for that great blog post wrt elections/voting :)
23:34:36 <nirik> #endmeeting