20:00:39 <gbinns> #startmeeting
20:00:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri May 21 20:00:39 2010 UTC.  The chair is gbinns. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01:23 <gbinns> #topic Websites Team Meeting - Who is here?
20:02:04 <gbinns> hi all - anyone out there?
20:02:08 * ardchoille is here
20:02:31 <gbinns> ardchoille: hello
20:02:40 <ardchoille> Hi
20:02:54 <gbinns> let's wait a few minutes to see if anyone else joins us
20:05:22 <gbinns> ok, let's get going
20:05:38 <gbinns> #topic F13 Release Next Week
20:06:31 <gbinns> the f13 release is scheduled for next week
20:06:45 <ardchoille> Woot!
20:06:45 <gbinns> zang!
20:06:49 <gbinns> :)
20:07:13 <gbinns> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule
20:07:27 <ardchoille> I'm on f13 now and it's quite nice, faster than f12 on my machine too.
20:07:34 <gbinns> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Final_Release_Criteria
20:08:20 <gbinns> sweet - i have been using it too
20:09:52 <gbinns> #info thank you to everyone who has been contributing, kicking butt, and working hard on preparing f13 for the release!
20:10:38 <gbinns> #topic get.fp.o status
20:11:22 <gbinns> sijis said that all design and content is done
20:11:55 <gbinns> the only thing he said is left is filling in the iso links
20:12:24 <gbinns> #info all design and content is done - the only thing that remains is filling in the iso links
20:12:31 <ardchoille> I have an issue
20:12:44 <gbinns> ardchoille: what's that?
20:13:05 <ardchoille> It's a bug, hold on and let me find it
20:13:21 <ardchoille> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2049
20:13:50 <ardchoille> I'm also installing git and apache so I can help with these things
20:14:39 <gbinns> ok great - thanks for bringing up this issue
20:15:02 <ardchoille> I know where the links are to the f13 sums, I just don't know how to add them to the verify page yet
20:15:21 <gbinns> #info ardchoille made note of an issue, https://fedoraproject.org/verify does not provide llinks for F13 alpha checksum files
20:15:32 <gbinns> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2049
20:15:36 <ardchoille> I feel that this bug needs to be fixed before f13 release so people have the sums to check against
20:15:54 <gbinns> agreed
20:16:08 <gbinns> ricky: are you around?
20:18:21 <gbinns> ok, ardchoille, will you email this issue to the mailing list and make a note to follow-up if you haven't heard back regarding it by monday?
20:18:32 <ardchoille> Will do
20:18:33 <gbinns> (the websites team mailing list)
20:19:45 <gbinns> #action ardchoille will email the issue to the websites mailing list to seek guidance and will follow-up accordingly early next week (23/5/2010)
20:20:14 <gbinns> please feel free to email me at gbinns@fedoraproject.org if you have any problems getting in touch with someone for guidance
20:20:29 <ardchoille> Noted
20:20:37 <gbinns> #topic Release Day Tasks
20:22:11 <gbinns> #info there are several things that need to be taken care of for release day
20:22:29 <gbinns> #action change syncStatic.sh in puppet repo and change from f13-beta to master
20:22:48 <gbinns> #action update spins.fp.o page to filter by f13
20:23:07 <gbinns> #action monitor webmaster@ email address for issues
20:24:21 <gbinns> #info please see the fedora websites release SOP for more details regarding release day tasks
20:24:50 <gbinns> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Websites_Release_SOP
20:26:07 <gbinns> #action sijis will post his current notes on releases from Alpha -> Beta -> GA onto the SOP
20:26:45 <gbinns> with that said, sijis may not be around for release day - ardchoille, will you be around?
20:27:21 <ardchoille> I will
20:27:56 <gbinns> great
20:28:38 <gbinns> there may be a need for assistance with checking links and addressing/looking at webmaster@ email
20:28:47 <gbinns> stickster: are you available?
20:28:56 * stickster here
20:29:18 <gbinns> stickster: sweet - do you know where webmaster@ mail goes
20:29:25 <stickster> gbinns: I can find out, hang on
20:29:43 <gbinns> stickster: thanks
20:29:49 <ardchoille> I believe it goes to the websites@ list
20:30:03 <stickster> ardchoille: gbinns: That's correct.
20:30:08 * stickster just consulted puppet store
20:30:34 <gbinns> ok, awesome
20:31:20 <gbinns> thanks guys
20:32:04 <gbinns> #topic Keyword Optimization
20:32:24 <gbinns> i sent recommendations for a few pages to the marketing list earlier this week
20:33:03 <gbinns> (the marketing team email list)
20:33:29 <stickster> gbinns: I saw that list of recommendations. What's required to actually do the optimization?
20:33:48 <gbinns> if there are no objections to the keywords i will start working on drafts of the pages that would be involved
20:34:20 <gbinns> stickster: For each URL below, we would basically want to add the suggested keyword when/where applicable to the:
20:34:21 <gbinns> Title Tag
20:34:21 <gbinns> META Description Tag (which do not currently exist)
20:34:21 <gbinns> H1 Tags
20:34:21 <gbinns> H2 Tags
20:34:24 <gbinns> Anchor Text
20:34:26 <gbinns> ALT Tags
20:34:44 <gbinns> i emailed you a few minutes ago :)
20:35:09 <gbinns> for the record, here are the suggestions that were emailed:
20:35:23 <gbinns> URL: http://fedoraproject.org/
20:35:23 <gbinns> Suggested Keyword: Fedora Linux
20:35:23 <gbinns> Targeted Term: Linux
20:35:23 <gbinns> Global Monthly Search Volume for Target Term: 55.6 Million
20:35:23 <gbinns> URL: http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora
20:35:25 <gbinns> Keyword: Fedora Linux Download
20:35:27 <gbinns> Targeted Term: Linux Download
20:35:29 <gbinns> Global Monthly Search Volume for Targeted Term: 1.2 Million
20:35:31 <gbinns> URL: http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-help
20:35:33 <gbinns> Keyword: Fedora Linux How To Get Help
20:35:35 <gbinns> Targeted Term: Linux How To
20:35:37 <gbinns> Global Monthly Search Volume for Targeted Term: 1 Million
20:35:59 <gbinns> so, for example, if we were making changes on the homepage
20:36:46 <stickster> gbinns: You emailed me, or the list?
20:37:28 <gbinns> the h1 tag is currently <h1>Fedora</h1> - i would recommend changing that to 'Fedora Linux' or 'Fedora Linux Project'
20:37:40 <gbinns> stickster: the list
20:37:47 <stickster> gbinns: Well, "Fedora Linux" is not our product name
20:38:02 <stickster> That could be confusing to users.
20:38:16 <gbinns> stickster: ok, so do you suggest leaving as is?
20:38:27 <stickster> We should be able to put that content in the page but hide it from viewers, though
20:38:42 <stickster> <h1 style="visibility: hidden;">Fedora Linux</h1>
20:38:55 <gbinns> stickster: that could actually penalize us with the search engines, it's called keyword jamming
20:39:05 <stickster> OK, then we'd have to find some other optimizations instead.
20:39:06 <gbinns> or keyword stuffing
20:39:21 <stickster> We shouldn't be changing page content that changes our branding.
20:39:36 <gbinns> stickster: ok - so with regard to fedora, we can only use the words "fedora" or "fedora project" - correct?
20:39:44 <stickster> That's correct
20:39:55 <gbinns> ok np
20:40:16 <stickster> I understand we want to get associated with Linux in SEO though, so I do enourage finding ways to do that
20:40:20 <stickster> *encourage.
20:40:52 <gbinns> stickster: could we do something like, 'Fedora Project | Linux'
20:41:29 <gbinns> stickster: or some other middle character 'Fedora Project / Linux'
20:42:19 <stickster> Not in the titling.
20:42:55 <gbinns> ok
20:43:18 <gbinns> is it okay to change the current title tags, though?
20:44:19 <gbinns> right now they are all the same <title>Fedora Project</title> - typically each web page should have a unique title
20:45:09 <gbinns> aside from a keyword optimization standpoint
20:45:30 <gbinns> e.g. <title>Get Fedora</title>
20:45:54 <gbinns> or <title>Get Fedora Help</title>
20:46:06 <ardchoille> Can we do something like <title>Fedora Project ${page_name}</title> ?
20:46:31 <ardchoille> Or <title>Fedora Project / ${page_name}</title> ?
20:47:04 <ardchoille> I'm not sure if the server can handle that variable
20:48:10 <gbinns> stickster: what do you think?
20:48:29 <stickster> Yes, that sounds perfectly do-able
20:48:54 <stickster> gbinns: We'll have to wait until post-GA because changes to these text strings affect our global translators.
20:49:24 <stickster> gbinns: We'd want to announce the plan, give the translators notice, make all the changes at once, and then make sure translators know the new translatables are available.
20:49:36 <gbinns> stickster: ok
20:50:00 <gbinns> stickster: so in terms of SEO, is that going to be compatible with page names?
20:50:39 <stickster> Fedora Project / Get Fedora
20:50:49 <stickster> Fedora Project / Get Help
20:50:51 <gbinns> ok
20:50:57 <stickster> Is that what you mean, gbinns?
20:51:13 <stickster> Those titles seem fine to me
20:51:26 <gbinns> no, i was more thinking along the lines of people that don't know about fedora
20:51:42 <gbinns> because if you put fedora in to google we already have that covered up
20:51:43 <stickster> I don't know what you mean gbinns, can you clarify the question?
20:51:46 <gbinns> sure
20:52:16 <gbinns> so basically, with keyword optimization it is about trying to attract your demographic by optimizing your website with keywords that apply to them
20:52:44 <gbinns> we can take two routes
20:52:52 <gbinns> only go for people that are looking for fedora
20:53:13 <gbinns> or go after the linux community in general which was my thought with words and phrases like 'linux' and 'linux download'
20:54:29 <gbinns> stickster: so my question is, do we have any mobility to use a noun other than Fedora in a page title?
20:54:30 <stickster> gbinns: If you look at, e.g. http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download -- that's the #1 hit for "download linux" on Google. But it mentions Linux 0 times.
20:55:09 <ardchoille> sounds like a META Description Tag
20:55:17 <stickster> I just looked at the source, there is no such tag.
20:55:19 <gbinns> stickster: yes, but they are using it in their homepage <title></title> tag an are the 2nd listing on google for the term
20:55:31 <gbinns> <title>Ubuntu Linux</title>
20:55:47 <gbinns> http://www.ubuntu.com/
20:56:15 <stickster> gbinns: Go to that page
20:56:20 <stickster> There's no Linux in the source at all
20:56:46 <stickster> And it's not in Meta or in an h1
20:57:17 <gbinns> stickster: i see what you are saying
20:57:53 <gbinns> stickster: in terms of the homepage title tag
20:57:56 <stickster> gbinns: So it must be possible to do that without the page title or h1
20:58:13 <gbinns> stickster: that will change because when google crawls a webpage it lists it in the index based on their title tag
20:58:39 <stickster> So it entered into the index with that title, but now doesn't have it anymore, and the search engine continues to show it?
20:58:46 <gbinns> stickster: yes
20:58:49 <gbinns> stickster: http://espn.go.com/
20:59:05 <stickster> So does that mean that if we've already entered our page into the index, changing our title wouldn't have any effect either, would it?
20:59:18 <gbinns> stickster: no, google recrawls websites on a regular basis
20:59:35 <stickster> gbinns: But their site has not had "Linux" in the title for a long time now.
20:59:56 <stickster> Certainly I would have expected Google to crawl it in the last several months
21:00:04 <stickster> esp. based on the content changes to that page, right?
21:00:39 <gbinns> stickster: yes, you would think so, however, the title tag is like the bookcover for whatever content resides in a page
21:01:05 <gbinns> stickster: it should update
21:01:28 <stickster> gbinns: So would we have to retain "Linux" in the title forever?
21:01:34 <stickster> How long would it have to stay up?
21:01:43 <gbinns> stickster: i would recommend until it got indexed
21:01:44 <stickster> And what would happen when our content changes?
21:02:00 <stickster> Wouldn't we have to keep changing it when our content changed, if this works as you're saying?
21:02:14 <gbinns> yes, it could definitely get reindexed when you change it back
21:02:17 <gbinns> here is another example:
21:02:21 <gbinns> http://www.redhat.com/
21:02:22 <gbinns> <title>redhat.com | The World's Open Source Leader</title>
21:02:28 <gbinns> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=redhat
21:02:39 <stickster> gbinns: But what you're saying doesn't agree with the reality of what we're saying with that U page.
21:03:13 <gbinns> stickster: it does, it hasn't propogated it looks like
21:03:17 <gbinns> stickster: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ubuntu
21:03:27 <stickster> They've obviously changed their content several times; the page title changed a long time ago; and yet the entry in google cache is current.
21:03:27 <gbinns> stickster: there you can see their title tag with no mention of linux
21:04:02 <gbinns> stickster: correct, however, as you can see, a past page title is still associated with the term linux
21:04:29 <gbinns> stickster: which is very valuable, considering it gets 55 million searches a month
21:04:31 <stickster> gbinns: How long would that title change have to stay up to keep us associated in that list?
21:05:00 * stickster notes we're currently #9 on that list
21:05:02 <gbinns> stickster: i would think that fedoraproject.org gets crawled every 2 or 3 days
21:05:25 <gbinns> stickster: so we could make the changes and see how that changed our ranking
21:05:45 <gbinns> my main point i guess, is that by targeting these more popular words we are opening up our chances to grow
21:06:01 <gbinns> whereas linux gets 55 million searches, fedora linux gets 200k searches
21:06:15 <stickster> I guess this seems more like an experiment than based on factual knowledge that a title is going to change this particular search ranking for us.
21:06:17 <gbinns> so basically i am working on gaming the search engine so we become the biggest distro
21:06:33 <stickster> My understanding is that Google's ranking -- which really is the one that matters most -- is much smarter than that.
21:06:38 <gbinns> stickster: no, there is tons of research behind this
21:07:01 <gbinns> stickster: there is a whole science, http://www.seomoz.org/ - i specialize in doing this work professionally for a living
21:07:12 * stickster would suggest, then, that we try this post GA for a specific time period
21:07:16 <stickster> Say, 30 days
21:07:37 <stickster> And make sure that the translators' old translations of titles are retained in the PO files they use
21:07:42 <gbinns> stickster: ok np
21:07:48 <stickster> When we switch back, that way, there's zero work for them.
21:08:14 <gbinns> stickster: i was working hard to get the preliminary work done, so when we hit GA you all had already seen the drafts and we had taken advantage of the time when we couldn't do anything anyway
21:08:42 <stickster> We should use a title that doesn't change our branding though -- "Fedora Project | <something with Linux>"
21:08:51 * stickster cool with that
21:09:02 <gbinns> stickster: i have a phone meeting, but i really appreciate you going over this with me - i hope i didn't interrupt what you were working on
21:09:22 <gbinns> stickster: np regarding the title tag
21:09:44 <stickster> gbinns: Not at all, I appreciate your expertise and trying to clarify some of this for me
21:10:07 <gbinns> stickster: np
21:10:54 <gbinns> #action gbinns will continue working on the preliminary keyword optimization tasks according to the SOP and will make sure everyone is in agreement prior throughout each step of the process
21:11:30 <gbinns> #topic Open Floor
21:12:04 <ardchoille> I emailed the websites@ list regarding the ticket #2049 (f13 checksums). I'll monitor and follow up on Monday.
21:12:17 * sijis_afk is lurking...ish
21:12:22 <gbinns> ardchoille: awesome, thanks
21:12:58 <gbinns> #info Sijis provided the agenda for today's meeting, despite his being on vacation - thank you Sijis!!!
21:13:10 <sijis_afk> no prob.
21:13:25 <sijis_afk> long meeting, eh?
21:13:34 <ardchoille> Good meeting :)
21:14:42 <gbinns> sijis_afk: yeah, thanks again for the help
21:15:16 <gbinns> is there anything else anyone wants to go over?
21:16:17 <sijis_afk> nope. could you just send an email to the meetbot notes?
21:16:35 <sijis_afk> s/to/of
21:16:40 <gbinns> np
21:17:22 <sijis_afk> thx
21:18:10 <gbinns> #endmeeting