19:03:47 #startmeeting 19:03:47 Meeting started Tue Oct 14 19:03:47 2014 UTC. The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:03:47 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:03:54 #chair robyduck 19:03:54 Current chairs: mizmo robyduck 19:03:57 #chair ryanlerch 19:03:57 Current chairs: mizmo robyduck ryanlerch 19:03:59 #chair shaiton 19:04:00 Current chairs: mizmo robyduck ryanlerch shaiton 19:04:02 okay 19:04:03 :O 19:04:04 thx 19:04:08 #topic borchure site 19:04:16 * jreznik is lurking 19:04:21 * sijis is here 19:04:22 okay so here's the design challenges we have around the borchure site 19:04:42 #1 it's gotta be dead simple. we're targeting mainly to new users who never used fedora before or folks not really into the fedora community (yet) 19:04:54 #2 it's really got to sell fedora and make the reasons you want to use it clear 19:05:14 #3 each of the three products needs its own space to make its own pitch because the products are made for very different purposes and target different people sometimes 19:05:31 #4 for each of the product-specific pages, we've got to honor both the fedora brand/logo and the individual product brand/logo 19:05:48 #5 we need some kind of central page to tie it all together / direct people to the product they need 19:05:58 okay got all that? :) 19:06:08 * sadin nods 19:06:11 i thikn so 19:06:13 so this is the rough mockup i made based on ryan's and robyduck's mockups so far 19:06:13 +5 19:06:22 i don't solve #5 with it, but we can talk about that 19:06:25 http://i.imgur.com/kwpLh12.png 19:06:39 i want the top bar to work the way it does in robyduck's mockup, but i want it to be solid / non-transparent 19:06:57 ok 19:07:02 any of these colorblocks could be replaced with photography or illustrations; i just blocked them out flat since it's a simple mockup 19:07:12 basically, from top to bottom - 19:07:31 #1 - branding. product on left, fedora on right. i've seen this pattern on some sites (like getfirefox.org) 19:07:39 where they do firefox on left, mozilla on right 19:07:55 #2 short call to action with actionable links (tour, download now) and bling 19:08:15 #3 - more detailed call to action - why fedora is awesome, why it is different, why it solves your problems and makes you popcorn 19:08:50 #4 - photo of actual user (could rotate) with testimonial. similar to what we have at www.fpo/using-fedora now, but the interviewees should be in the target audience for the given product 19:09:12 (and they should be updated) 19:09:14 #5 - feature highlight - kind of how we do in the slideshow on the front of www.fpo now, pick a feature compelling to the target users and provide links for more info 19:09:17 shaiton +1 19:09:26 #6 - referrals to the other ffedora products 19:09:44 #7 - some kind of standard fedora footer that should include link to how to join community 19:10:05 so you want to put workstation over the other 2 products if I understand that right 19:10:16 nope - 19:10:19 i mean we can if you want 19:10:23 robyduck, this is the example of the workstation page 19:10:29 but this is just an idea for getfedora.org/workstation or whatnot 19:10:31 AIUI 19:10:36 Quick question are these mockups going to be on github? 19:10:37 ? 19:10:46 * mattdm appears in a poof of smoke 19:10:47 is it workstation or the brochure? 19:10:53 what i dont know is what getfedora.org looks like. maybe it just is very simple splash linking out to all three 19:10:58 robyduck, it's the brochure for workstation :) 19:11:06 lol 19:11:09 mattdm, http://i.imgur.com/kwpLh12.png <= discussion on this now 19:11:16 robyduck, lol does it make sense tho? 19:11:34 it's not really what I expected 19:11:46 tell me what you were thinking 19:11:47 * mattdm likes the placeholder text 19:11:58 but I'm fine with it, we will have much more workstation users than cloud or server users 19:12:22 and the goal of the websites are new users, so workstation is what they are looking for 19:12:31 mattdm, backlog http://fpaste.org/141867/13313939/ 19:12:33 it makes sense 19:12:40 robyduck, we could do one of these for server and cloud too 19:12:44 mizmo: thanks! 19:12:51 robyduck: it's not the central page (get.fpo) where all products will have same space. it's the workstation specific page, for the cloud one it would feature cloud ;) 19:12:56 eg if this one is getfedora.org/workstation, those would be getfedora.org/server and getfedora.org/cloud 19:13:10 think about how we have spins.fpo vs spins.fpo/kde or spins.fpo/design 19:13:15 it's more like the spins.fpo setup 19:13:22 yep, got it 19:14:02 so the top-level page might be a super-simple affair with just links to the 3 products? 19:14:21 now one thing that isnt in this mock that i think might be neat is if we detect you're running fedora we add in a block near the top about upgrading thru fedup (like robyduck's mockup has now) 19:14:29 ryanlerch, yeh i think so. 19:14:33 i.e. the workstation link would link to this page 19:14:40 (the mockup) 19:14:58 yep 19:15:03 mizmo: that would be great 19:15:27 ryanlerch: yes, just the 3 products, maybe with our 4 foundations? 19:15:30 and maybe if we detect (somehow, maybe via cookie???) you have a FAS account we add another bar to offer you a beta or alpha 19:16:00 i dunno we could get fancy if we want. i know everybody uses this flat horiz bar design but it makes it really easy to slap in new / additional bars or take some out depending on circumstances 19:16:14 mizmo chrome/firefox extension would work. like gnome3 does with extensions 19:16:21 robyduck, ryanlerch - yeh maybe a big statement about what fedora as a whole is about 19:16:28 +1 19:16:33 why we do what we do 19:16:33 etc 19:16:42 mizmo: fas features should be on the hub, no? 19:16:43 could also have a promo space for fudcons or flock 19:16:47 +1 19:16:59 shaiton, yes, the hub is really where fas stuff goes. 19:17:13 this was more a small idea if we knew they logged into the hub somehow (i dont know if its possible) 19:17:18 I dont' think we are able to have the FAS for F21 19:17:25 oh thats fine 19:17:32 more of a long term idea 19:17:43 and also we should think why we need the FAS on the hub 19:17:58 but this kind of setup for the brochures i think might not be hard to scaffold. ryan and i could take the photos we need / make the illustrations and do the interviews / writeups 19:18:17 cool 19:18:22 does this mockup seem like the right direction? i can move forward and mock up a central page for www.fpo 19:18:29 if this soudns good we could move on to talk about hub 19:19:05 I like it. 19:19:08 mizmo: I have some questions 19:19:10 :) 19:19:32 robyduck, sure shoot 19:19:51 I mean, the mockup looks great and it's really good as marketing, but where do you think to put all the other stuff? 19:20:21 alternative downloads, spins links, verify, etc...all in the *tour*? 19:20:22 robyduck, can you define "other stuff" 19:20:46 we do need to make sure that kde and other desktop spins are easy to find for people who want them 19:21:09 spins should go on the top level page 19:21:17 no 19:21:25 If thats the case shouldnt they be under the "workstations" page 19:21:29 spins will be only on the spins.fpo 19:21:40 we won't have them on the main website 19:21:57 but we will have a prominent link to spins.fpo 19:22:04 robyduck, my thought for that stuff was it'd live in the footer 19:22:06 link to/info about spins should be on the top level page 19:22:13 mmh its a little bit confusing to have spin.fpo and getfedora 19:22:24 Emichan, i dont think we want to promote them that much on the brochure site 19:22:31 the brochure focus is on the products 19:22:45 we discussed that already IIRC 19:22:54 eh... we don't want them to be too much of an afterthought, though 19:23:13 true 19:23:13 the brochure is for the products, spins will live on the specific spins site 19:23:15 question ... 19:23:32 2 actually- where is the robyduck mockup 19:23:44 Why dont the links to the spins live on the workstation page considering they are all workstations just with different WMs 19:23:46 we can definitely have expandable links for the download page of each product for the alternative methods (and maybe promote the methods most relevant to that particular product more highly) 19:23:48 sijis: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Robyduck/fedora.next-websites 19:23:49 * sadin was wondering that too 19:23:52 also, when someone clicks on download.. what will the user see? 19:24:00 * robyduck is waiting for the build to complete stg 19:24:10 sadin, bc they aren't all workstations and they aren't governed by workstation wg 19:24:15 they aren't products 19:24:21 so they have a much lower level of support 19:24:32 sijis, haven't mocked that up yet :) 19:24:35 mizmo: can you look on my mockup? 19:24:37 mizmo i see 19:24:37 we might want to mention the desktop spins on the workstation site, though since for a lot of users workstation will = desktop 19:24:38 sadin: I dont see that Design Suite or Jam are just an alternative desktop environment 19:24:48 gnokii, youre right 19:25:09 mizmo: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/1/11/Workstation.jpg 19:25:10 sijis, depending on the product... like if it's the cloud product then we (maybe) promote VMs and cloud images and have isos lower down (if that makes sense) 19:25:18 robyduck, got it open 19:25:31 ok, there is a row with 3 columns 19:25:45 Emichan, two points - 19:25:51 where we have alternative downloads (some products as cloud will have many of them) 19:25:54 #1 i dont want to overwhelm brand new usesr with a choice of 12 desktops 19:25:59 Hello 19:26:02 +1 mizmo 19:26:03 Is this the meeting? 19:26:07 #2 workstation is for a very specific target audience that doesn't intersect with all the desktop spins 19:26:09 Cydrobolt, yes 19:26:16 How much have I missed? 19:26:24 half an hour 19:26:28 Mmh 19:26:29 Cydrobolt, i'll paste a log 19:26:32 Can someone tldr? 19:26:37 robyduck, the row that used to have the little pandas right! 19:26:49 mizmo: pages are up now 19:26:54 can you look at them? 19:26:57 http://stg.fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora 19:27:08 robyduck, oh wonderful! yep 19:27:09 http://stg.fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/ 19:27:11 mizmo, agreed, but those points can be mitigated by the way the info is presented. 19:27:13 Cydrobolt, http://www.fpaste.org/141875/13314820/ 19:27:18 I thought is was easier for all 19:27:46 robyduck, this is exactly the right content i think we need for www.fpo front page here on the front page of stg.fpo 19:28:01 ok, spins included? 19:28:08 mizmo: +1 on that /en/workstation page 19:28:08 short/high-level call to action for fedora.... more deatiled call to action... specific deatils on each of the 3 products.. 19:28:12 will just be a link to spins.fpo 19:28:18 robyduck, yep that makes sense 19:28:20 the target user for workstation is not general desktop user, but that is the most appropriate product for the general desktop user 19:28:22 i think thats a good way to present it 19:28:30 cool 19:28:35 Emichan +1 19:28:35 so, it sounds like 'spins' will still exist then, right 19:28:37 Emichan, i dont know that the kde sig would agree with that 19:28:45 we can do that also with the design you did 19:29:13 kde sig isn't making a product for f21 afaik :) 19:29:15 +1 on the workstation page 19:29:18 Looks quite nice 19:29:37 sijis, oh yeh spins.fpo isn't going away, as far as i know, although generally i dont think there's a lot of direction there right now. :-/ but we can definitely update the look & feel of it to make it match better 19:29:40 mizmo: and I agree also in the footer we can have some minor important links, instead of all the links we actually have 19:29:51 Emichan, theres a lot of politics there i have no interest in and would like to avoid 19:29:56 and I can forsee a lot of media linking directly to the workstation page saying "i.e. fedora is now fedora workstation" 19:30:05 Emichan, but no they aren't making a product. they are making a desktop spin 19:30:24 mattdm, ^^ is this a concern about media 19:30:28 We can use the same styles from the brochure site to make spins.fpo 19:30:33 my point is that having an unobtrusive mention of alternative desktop spins on the workstation page, makes sense to me considering the kind of traffic that page is likely to get 19:30:33 or have we primed the pump enoguh with the wg announcements 19:30:52 We can have a one-page site for spins.fpo, it would look nicer, imho 19:30:56 to keep it simple 19:31:07 Emichan, we're going to have it in the footer on every product page, and a specific call out on the front page (see stg.fpo) 19:31:22 Cydrobolt: we won't touch the spins.fpo for now 19:31:30 mizmo, we're going to mention the alt desktop spins specifically in the footer? 19:31:31 we can do that for F22 19:31:35 Mmh 19:31:41 Emichan, no theres going to be a link for spins.fpo 19:31:45 mizmo, maybe having links at the top of the products pages to the other products could help? so that the other two products are at the top too? 19:31:46 I use a spin, and most people I know use spins as well 19:32:03 maybt that can mitigate some of the "workstation is the new fedora" 19:32:13 ryanlerch, hmm that might work 19:32:21 ryanlerch: good point, but I think we should keep the product related stuff on the top 19:32:40 the header could have links to the other products 19:32:49 that way it's right there at the top and easy to switch 19:32:49 in mo's mockup the other two products are quite prominent 19:33:24 perhaps the right part of the navbar can be improved 19:33:47 the text looks a bit too small compared to the total height of the navbar 19:35:06 mizmo: so we can think about having one of your rows with 3 columns? 19:35:44 robyduck, absolutely 19:35:50 cool 19:36:22 Cydrobolt, its just a rough mockup, its not meant for detailed visual styling so font sizes / etc completely variable and loose (if that makes sense) 19:36:35 but we will need also a navbar, you know that, right? 19:36:39 ah, okay 19:36:44 What do you mean? 19:37:05 s/navbar/navmenu 19:37:07 robyduck, navbar to go where on which page? (www.fpo or www.fpo/$PRODUCT ?) 19:37:20 in the header 19:37:38 but for what purpose, right? 19:37:54 I don't think we are able to have an easy navigation between all the pages without a navigation menu 19:38:19 robyduck, well let's walk through an example use case you're worried about 19:38:39 theres a few levels here - 19:38:41 we will have many other pages, verify, alternative dl, public cloud, hubs, etc... 19:38:46 #1 www.fpo => picking a specific product 19:39:00 ok 19:39:00 #2 www.fpo/$PRODUCT => navigating within product 19:39:07 Like a breadcrumbs? 19:39:10 #3 www.fpo/$PRODUCT/$ACTION => downloading, etc 19:39:30 yes, or returnung back, and there is the fedora logo as HOME 19:39:44 so for #1, you click on the product of interest. if you want to go back to www.fpo you hit back or click fedora logo in upper right. if you want to try different product, you can go back to www.fpo and back down (back to hub and down spoke) or click on other product name further down page 19:39:58 what if you are in the alternative download page and want to go to server main page? 19:40:01 breadcrumbs do seem like theyd help 19:40:16 no, breadcrumbs don't help 19:40:18 for #2, if you're on say www.fpo/workstation and you want to download it, you go down to level #3. at that point, once we're at level #3, we can add some nav within the product... about / tour / download 19:40:34 i thought the idea here was to have somthing super-shallow in structure. not sure if we need breadcrumbs 19:40:36 i think that answered your last question robyduck? 19:40:42 it's only 3 levels deep i think 19:40:51 i think we shouldn't do the same thing we do with downloads today - 19:40:58 mmmhh 19:40:59 i think all downlaods should just be on one downloads page per product 19:41:00 so we'd have 19:41:17 www.fpo/workstation/download vs www.fpo/server/download vs www.fpo/cloud/download 19:41:28 and depending on the product different download methods could be promoted as appropriate 19:41:33 Bootstrap offers a breadcrumbs module 19:41:48 i think hes pretty much against the breadcrumbs idea 19:42:02 while you are right Cydrobolt 19:42:05 about the module 19:42:12 mizmo: what else do you see in the 3rd level, besides download (aka $ACTION) 19:42:15 breadcrumbs are good for really deep sites but this is just a borchure 19:42:16 Something supershallow? 19:42:23 sijis, the tour 19:42:33 i could quickly sketch up a rough example site map 19:42:40 textually 19:42:45 You can have simple "back" "workstation" "cloud" etc links 19:42:46 level #1 is www.fpo/ 19:42:50 rather than a full breadcrumbs module 19:43:00 mizmo: if I want to do from workstation to design-hub and back to server I can't do that without a navigation menu 19:43:02 level #2 is /workstation /server /cloud and maybe a /help 19:43:10 s/do/go 19:43:14 level #3 is download tour about <= points to main product page 19:43:22 so its something like this: $SITE-L1/$PRODUCT-L2/$ACTION-l3 19:43:29 let's try to figure out a sctructure before thinking about how to navigate it 19:43:34 sijis, yep you go it roughly 19:43:58 not as deep as i thought it would go 19:43:59 mizmo, that seems sane to me 19:44:01 nice 19:44:14 nice, predictable paths 19:44:29 so, help is l2 or l3? fp.o/product/help or fp.o/help 19:44:37 help is l2 i *think* ? 19:44:53 the original master plan (which is of course flexible and no problem to change) was to have a fedora-wide help portal 19:45:21 something like stackoverflow or getsatisfaction... maybe some kind of revamp of ask.fpo 19:45:22 that's resonable 19:45:25 but user-centric 19:45:57 shaiton: what's your thought? 19:45:59 yes! :) 19:46:17 +1 to a better ask.fpo 19:46:22 i can't tell.. but we decided to do dropdown for nav to other products or was that shot down? (it seems breadcrums are out) 19:47:03 * shaiton reading last lines 19:47:06 sijis, i personally don't think it makes sense to have nav to other products beyond the large callouts on the bottom referring to them but i'm willing to be convinced 19:47:08 sijis: look on the header here. Is that too much? 19:47:10 http://stg.fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora 19:47:14 sijis, where i think we need nav is on level 3 19:47:20 also, any thought on internalization for those pages? 19:47:40 sijis: yes, same as before 19:48:14 mizmo: by bottom, you are NOT saying footer, i guess 19:48:22 sijis, oh no, it's one of the horizontal bar thingys 19:48:30 it'll be all fancy and whatever 19:48:34 its hard to tell because its such a simple mockup 19:48:43 * shaiton likes the idea of predictable path. But still if we can have a big simple download button for some product pages… 19:48:51 ohh. i see .. Server | cloud 19:49:05 shaiton, well lets talk about this 19:49:19 i could see how 64 bit iso might be a good default download for workstation right 19:49:26 are there obvious default downloads for cloud and server? 19:49:28 yes 19:49:42 mattdm, not for cloud, right? 19:49:51 is there an obvious default? 19:49:54 cuz we could always do [ download now ] _more options_ kind of thing 19:49:58 for server yes, for cloud .... mattdm? 19:50:04 hold on typing :) 19:50:24 those download options are determined by the product and are tailored to it 19:50:25 I think that the plan was for there not to be an obvious choice, but the way it's coming out, there kind of is. 19:50:47 I think that Atomic is going to be _ready_, but not quite there for being the primary push 19:50:55 and bigdata and other images _aren't_ ready 19:51:05 which leaves us with the options we have on the prerelease page 19:51:23 and it makes sense to make the x86_64 cloud base image be primary, basically 19:51:39 although I'm not sure if we should emphasize downloadable qcow2 or launchable-in-ec2 19:52:11 On the plus side, I think the audience for cloud images is prepared for it to be a bit of a "choose your own adventure" 19:52:27 agree sijis, this should be defined by the poduct team 19:52:51 (and desktop is where we get new contributors actually, isn't it?) 19:53:01 yes 19:53:12 prerelease.. i assume by product as well? last i understand each product would have it own release schedule 19:53:24 so something like fp.o/$product/prerelease? 19:54:29 mattdm: since there's no suggested option... we just list by alphabetically or something arbritary.. im' just guessing 19:54:59 sijis: No, I think there's a logical ordering... 19:56:36 mizmo: I don't like the idea to have a navigation in level 3 and nothing in level 2, what's the problem with a short menu? 19:57:06 Cloud Base vs. Atomic is the main split (with cloud base top choice for f21). Then, download or launch (even weight). If downloading, qcow2 default over raw.xz, and x86_64 over i386; if launching, currently we only have ec2, and then... same arch split, and ideally prefer region by geoip 19:58:46 mizmo, imo the main use case for nav between products would be users exploring the different options - go from tour to tour, etc - having to back all the way out is doable, but not great 19:59:00 mizmo: and we have docker too, so there is really much stuff to bring in and to promote in an easy to understanding way 19:59:20 I saw many bootstrap sites, and they are nice, but *all* need a nav 19:59:31 Emichan, but they definitely wouldnt have to back out and down, because each product links to the other two 19:59:55 mizmo, on the bottom, though? that's a bit unexpected 19:59:56 robyduck, i think it's redundant with the buttons 20:00:00 yes, the main product page 20:00:06 not the others 20:00:12 Emichan, these are brochure sites..... user is expecting to scroll down, its the main mechanism for this style 20:00:50 robyduck, by main product page - do you mean www.fpo or www.fpo/$PRODUCT ? 20:01:01 www.fpo/$PRODUCT 20:01:12 mizmo, the user expects to scroll, absolutely, but I don't think they expect top-level navigation on the bottom 20:02:56 mizmo, to be clear, i'm not necessarily advocating for a top navbar, just want to point out that not having one means we maybe won't serve the "explore" use case all that well 20:04:14 I feel the same 20:05:24 Emichan, robyduck i dont see any reason why we couldn't optimize the descriptions / links about each product on the front of www.fpo to support exploration 20:05:34 while leaving the individual brochures more focused 20:05:54 eg no reason why would couldn't link to tour for each from the boxes for each on the front of www.fpo 20:06:05 or even have a video or something on the front that talks about the differences between the three 20:06:11 mizmo, yep, and I think that's a good idea 20:06:13 i mean its not like we're price comparison shopping or something 20:06:22 it's like, do you want a minivan, a ferrari, or a mini cooper 20:06:31 nobody comparison shops between these two things 20:06:37 they simply want to know what each is meant for 20:06:38 mizmo, what if i want all three? ;) 20:07:00 mizmo: you are thinking only about a single product, one way direction 20:07:05 ;-) 20:07:06 mizmo: it's not that 20:07:34 new users want to explore, they don't come and get the car they like more 20:07:54 and they want to look into the hubs, take all tours probably and then decide 20:08:39 and if I have a website which is not easy to navigate, I don't even like its product 20:10:11 let me explain why i mocked it up this way 20:10:16 im not saying its the only way to go 20:10:23 robyduck, i think the question here is will someone actaully want to navigate *easily* between Workstation & Cloud? 20:10:25 but part of the point behind the three products i think is to decouple them from each other 20:10:35 so they can have individual identities and make individual decisions best for their unique users 20:10:46 i think a good way to do that is to more loosely pull them together 20:10:58 right now the different fedora options on www.fpo are very tightly bound 20:11:01 it's like someone going shopping for a bike, and wondering why they can't buy an excavator at the bike store 20:11:07 ryanlerch, +1 exactly 20:11:13 ryanlerch, +1 20:11:20 ryanlerch, not quite - there's valid reasons to want to learn about all three 20:11:48 i think someone looking from a cloud linux distro is going to look between fedoraproject.org/cloud and ubuntu.com/cloud and who knows coreos.com 20:11:54 i want fedora workstation to develop on, fedora server to run my devenv, fedora cloud for my aws deployment 20:12:12 Emichan, there are valid reasons but is the entry level user who is after the workstation going to be looking right away to deploy fedora in the cloud? 20:12:42 What youre saying is true 20:12:46 or i want fedora, i'm going to do development, and run some basic server-type stuff - should I use server or workstation? 20:12:48 but that doesnt happen in one fell swoop 20:12:53 Emichan, there are, but are those people frequent enough to warrant a top level menu? i think that is the question here 20:12:59 i think thats a longer term conversion 20:13:05 ^ 20:13:32 im not going to buy all my furniture at one furniture store. im going to buy the couch and use it for a while, if it doesnt fall apart maybe i'll upgrade my dining room table with them later on once they've proven themselves 20:13:34 well, i guess my question is, what is the downside to a top navbar? too much complexity? 20:13:55 i think the better way to look at it is that the main point of the borchures is to be as simple stupid as possible 20:14:13 mizmo: why are you against a nav menu? 20:14:25 well, simple is only as good as it serves the users 20:14:34 robyduck, because i dont want the different products bound together that tightly 20:14:49 we want the products to stand on their own 20:15:11 ok, and how do want us to put the stuff we have to add in the pages without any menu? 20:15:24 mizmo, how is a navbar binding the products together more than links on the bottom? 20:15:34 think only about cloud, verufy, ARM, docker, alternative DL, and and and 20:15:49 its not just product -> description -> download 20:16:16 Emichan, it's more binding if its colocated with the branding 20:16:52 robyduck thats actually exactly what a brochure site is. 20:16:57 robyduck, by cloud do you mean the cloud product? that's www.fpo/cloud 20:17:04 yes 20:17:10 robyduck, verify can pop up as the download splash, the way we do now on get.fpo 20:17:11 mizmo, sorry, i'm still not sure i'm understanding you - binding in what way? 20:17:19 robyduck, arm will be one of the options on www.fpo/product/download 20:17:23 mizmo: you said you wanted it like mozilla, and they *have* a menu 20:17:30 guys 20:17:33 why are you fighting me 20:17:38 i can't deal with aggression right now 20:17:44 i can't do this 20:18:08 mizmo: because I have no clue how to work on this putting all the things together. Arm is not just a link, there are 7-8 images 20:18:16 robyduck, docker only applies to the cloud product right? so it would be www.fpo/cloud/download <= one of the options on there 20:18:28 robyduck, alternative DLs are going to be on www.fpo/product/download page for each one 20:18:29 and they should go outside of the fedora/PRODUCT page 20:18:47 yes, indeed 20:18:51 robyduck, can you list out all the arm images? 20:18:51 mizmo, apologies if i came across as aggressive - just trying to understand your pov 20:19:17 robyduck, the vast majority of arm images at get.fpo are spins. not the main fedora 20:19:20 * Emichan is also multitasking, so maybe not communicating as well as possible 20:19:27 so they should be at spins.fpo. they shouldn't be on www.fpo 20:19:44 http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-spin-prerelease#arm 20:19:59 kde, kfce, mate, soas, and minimal are all spins aren't they 20:20:03 so only workstation would apply? 20:20:06 mizmo: yes, but we have them on fpo, not on spins 20:20:19 can we move them to spins? 20:20:22 the ones that are spins? 20:20:23 robyduck, but they arent part of a product? 20:20:44 workstation yes 20:20:50 Emichan, when you literally tack things onto the branding area it does bind a lot more tightly than pushing them further down the page 20:21:00 there is an ARM image for workstation? 20:21:04