17:00:21 <yzhang> #startmeeting fedora_atomic_wg
17:00:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul  5 17:00:21 2017 UTC.  The chair is yzhang. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_atomic_wg'
17:00:31 <yzhang> #topic Roll Call
17:00:35 <yzhang> #topic Roll Call
17:00:36 <yzhang> spacing
17:00:37 <kushal> .hellomynameis kushal
17:00:38 <zodbot> kushal: kushal 'Kushal Das' <mail@kushaldas.in>
17:00:40 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
17:00:41 <yzhang> .hello yzhang
17:00:41 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
17:00:44 <jlebon> .hello jlebon
17:00:46 <jbrooks> .hello jasonbrooks
17:00:46 <miabbott> .hello miabbott
17:00:47 <zodbot> yzhang: yzhang 'Yu Qi Zhang' <jzehrarnyg@gmail.com>
17:00:50 <zodbot> jlebon: jlebon 'None' <jlebon@redhat.com>
17:00:51 <roshi> .hello roshi
17:00:53 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <JBROOKS@REDHAT.COM>
17:00:55 <zodbot> miabbott: miabbott 'Micah Abbott' <miabbott@redhat.com>
17:00:57 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:00:58 <ksinny> .hello sinnykumari
17:00:59 <zodbot> roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' <mruckman@redhat.com>
17:01:02 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:01:05 <zodbot> ksinny: sinnykumari 'Sinny Kumari' <ksinny@gmail.com>
17:01:31 <dustymabe> .hello dustymabe
17:01:32 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
17:01:52 <yzhang> #chair kushal sayan jlebon jbrooks miabbott roshi maxamillion ksinny dustymabe
17:01:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks jlebon ksinny kushal maxamillion miabbott roshi sayan yzhang
17:02:24 <yzhang> i'll give it another 30 seconds
17:02:49 <yzhang> #topic Action items from last meeting
17:02:51 <imcleod> I'm gonna be listen-only folks.  Apologies.
17:02:55 <yzhang> dustymabe to propose a VFAD for wiki and docs discussion
17:02:55 <yzhang> maxamillion to look at logs from last meeting and add summary of our discussion to ticket https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/284
17:02:55 <yzhang> jberkus to create new issues, specs for docs.projectatomic.io publication
17:02:55 <yzhang> maxamillion roshi to come up with guidelines for meeting quorum for the atomic working group
17:03:10 <yzhang> dustymabe: hows the VFAD coming along
17:03:20 <maxamillion> roshi: we forgot to do that :/
17:03:26 <roshi> yeah, we totally *did* that
17:03:33 <roshi> give us a couple days to write it down...
17:03:36 * roshi coughes
17:03:37 <roshi> :p
17:03:51 <kushal> roshi, :)
17:03:52 <yzhang> #action maxamillion roshi to come up with guidelines for meeting quorum for the atomic working group
17:04:01 <yzhang> re-actioning ;)
17:04:09 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to propose a VFAD for wiki and docs discussion
17:04:16 <dustymabe> long sigh was let out just now
17:04:24 <yzhang> no jberkus today
17:04:34 <dustymabe> vacay?
17:04:52 <yzhang> there's also maxamillion to look at logs from last meeting and add summary of our discussion to ticket https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/284
17:04:56 <deuscapturus> .hello deuscapturus
17:04:57 <zodbot> deuscapturus: deuscapturus 'Theodore Cowan' <t@theodore.me>
17:05:03 <dustymabe> hiya deuscapturus
17:05:11 <maxamillion> yzhang: yeah, +1 ... I'll get that one
17:05:26 <yzhang> re-actioning as well
17:05:29 <yzhang> #action maxamillion to look at logs from last meeting and add summary of our discussion to ticket https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/284
17:06:16 <yzhang> well moving on I guess
17:06:19 <yzhang> to meeting tickets
17:06:25 <yzhang> #topic Make fedora-minimal base image generally available
17:06:31 <yzhang> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/290
17:07:23 <dustymabe> ok i think most of the discussion in this ticket is actually unrelated to the ask
17:07:28 <dustymabe> am I wrong?
17:07:31 <yzhang> hm, none of the main discussion members are here either
17:07:51 <dustymabe> I believe maxamillion and I had discussed this prior to the ticket being opened
17:08:11 <dustymabe> and he seemed to be aware of work needed to make this happen
17:08:24 <yzhang> any updates to that maxamillion
17:08:47 <yzhang> since the discussion seems to have detracted to building in the pagure thread
17:08:52 <maxamillion> yeah, it'd be pretty easy to do, I'll get it out with the next container release
17:09:01 <dustymabe> hmm
17:09:12 <dustymabe> well we can't 'get it out' until f26 is up, right?
17:09:12 <maxamillion> or wait
17:09:26 <maxamillion> dustymabe: no, I'm pushing f26 base images now
17:09:34 <maxamillion> dustymabe: docker pull registry.fedoraproject.org/fedora:26
17:10:10 <dustymabe> k, interesting - releng gives me a hard time about nightly vs prod qcow images, but this ok :)
17:10:24 <yzhang> so are we good with releasing it during the next container release still
17:10:45 <dustymabe> one thing to note is that there will be no fedora-minimal:25
17:10:53 <dustymabe> we never built it for f25
17:11:31 <maxamillion> dustymabe: huh?
17:11:46 <dustymabe> maxamillion: what's the question?
17:12:02 <maxamillion> dustymabe: "gives me a hard time" ... what are you trying to do with them? can you not download those images?
17:12:35 <maxamillion> dustymabe: or are you trying to push them to Atlas?
17:12:42 <dustymabe> maxamillion: sure i can - but putting out nightlies on the website for 'pre-release' testing - was given quite a hard time about that
17:12:44 <maxamillion> dustymabe: because do note, I don't push pre-release things to Docker Hub
17:13:21 <maxamillion> dustymabe: interesting, we should follow up off-meeting ... I'm curious what that's about, I might be doing something I shouldn't :/
17:13:21 <dustymabe> either way - that's a side discussion
17:13:24 <yzhang> maxamillion: can you update that pagure issue when you release the images
17:13:30 <yzhang> #action maxamillion to release the fedora-minimal base image with next container release: https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/290
17:13:31 <maxamillion> yzhang: I can
17:13:35 <yzhang> cool
17:13:50 <yzhang> any more questions/concerns regarding that issue
17:13:50 <dustymabe> i'll update the pagure issue today with info from this discussion
17:13:51 <maxamillion> dustymabe: just to verify, that image is built and I can query koji for it's latest build, yes?
17:14:07 <dustymabe> maxamillion: it's part of the RC composes
17:14:14 <maxamillion> dustymabe: rgr, thanks
17:14:20 <dustymabe> so it has been building just fine :)
17:14:30 <yzhang> moving on then
17:14:31 <yzhang> #topic Atomic Host images omit many common locales that all other flavors include
17:14:37 <yzhang> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/282
17:15:30 <yzhang> Any updates jlebon?
17:16:50 <yzhang> Real quiet today
17:17:02 <dustymabe> yeah - crickets
17:17:13 <yzhang> Too tired from 4th of July I guess
17:17:16 <dustymabe> we punted on this last week. discussion in the ticket is kinda muddy
17:17:29 <dustymabe> basically balance of more locales vs image size
17:17:41 <yzhang> I guess we can continue punting it until jberkus gets back
17:17:54 <yzhang> any objections
17:17:58 <dustymabe> should we remove the meeting keyword for now?
17:18:11 <jlebon> right, it's a tradeoff we have to decide on
17:18:20 <yzhang> Is it a high priority issue at all
17:18:26 <roshi> don't think so
17:18:51 <dustymabe> well - adamw seemed to think it was a pretty big deal and we do occasionally get people who hit the problem
17:18:53 <roshi> in the Grand Future, people should be able to download with whatever locale they want, as it'll be automagically generated, amirite?
17:19:06 <dustymabe> roshi: is that planned?
17:19:12 <jbrooks> I'm not worried about 10% bigger image
17:19:17 <yzhang> I detect minor sarcasm
17:19:21 <jbrooks> esp since we have cutting kube on the horizon
17:19:56 <dustymabe> weigh in on the ticket
17:20:02 * roshi was pontificating
17:20:02 <maxamillion> I'm a little worried about it, similar alternatives to Atomic Host are already considerably smaller in size
17:20:11 <roshi> I can see either side of the argument
17:20:14 <yzhang> If we still undecided we might as well leave the meeting tag there, just so we can occasionally nag people about it
17:20:33 <roshi> I like the idea of a system container
17:20:50 <maxamillion> or at least, alternatives targeting the same use case and user base ... not necessarily "similar" in the sense that they do the same stuff
17:21:08 <maxamillion> +1 to system container
17:21:28 <maxamillion> however, we need to figure out how to build and release those ... I have no idea how that's being done now
17:21:48 <yzhang> They're pretty much being built as docker containers
17:21:48 * roshi has nothing for this one
17:22:04 <jbrooks> It should work just the same as others, like he said ^
17:22:22 <dustymabe> i don't really understand how a system container is going to solve the locale problem
17:22:33 <kushal> locales are good for many people.
17:22:48 <kushal> Does that increase the size too much?
17:22:50 <yzhang> Since I'm not super familiar, are locales pretty much just extra files on the host?
17:23:02 <dustymabe> yzhang: that's how i understand it
17:23:09 <jbrooks> Can someone link to a locales rpm?
17:23:11 <yzhang> system containers can install files to the host pretty easily
17:23:35 <yzhang> but I'm not sure if that's the best use case, if all it is doing is install files
17:23:49 <maxamillion> yzhang: right, but there's more metadata isn't there? I'm curious how to release/distribute them
17:23:51 <dustymabe> yzhang: where do locale files go?
17:24:08 <roshi> common_bugs and list how to overlay the package?
17:24:17 <roshi> what locals do the others use? like CoreOS?
17:24:32 <yzhang> dustymabe: I'm not sure where they would go, for any arbitrary file you can put them into the container at /exports/hostfs/...
17:24:40 <yzhang> and it would get installed to the host, for example
17:25:01 <miabbott> a system container that could install locales on demand would be a nice trick
17:25:08 <yzhang> maxamillion: there's always: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Container:System_Container
17:25:11 <dustymabe> yeah - i'm just wondering if the files can't be written to a place because we have some filesystems that are readonly
17:25:17 <dustymabe> ok we should move on
17:25:24 <yzhang> yeah let's update the issue
17:25:38 <yzhang> with our discussions
17:25:38 <walters> the locale data needs to be *exactly* the same as the host today or otherwise things can be partially translated
17:25:54 <walters> talk about containers here implies a lot of technical work
17:26:20 <yzhang> in a perfect world the system containers will always have the same base image as the (atomic) host it's on
17:26:25 <yzhang> but that's not a thing yet
17:27:01 <yzhang> anyways, we can discuss further if we have time during open floor
17:27:03 <walters> i don't think i agree; among other things, i'd say a goal is to have e.g. the system container of Kube be from a slower moving base image for example
17:27:16 <walters> (right?)
17:27:38 <yzhang> possibly, there are always concerns of taking up extra space
17:27:38 <dustymabe> walters: that is a valid goal I would say
17:27:51 <dustymabe> if one wanted older kube versions
17:27:51 <yzhang> but for the general use case, not having to pull in a different base layer would be nice
17:27:59 <yzhang> anyways
17:28:01 <yzhang> #topic Figure out comprehensive strategy for atomic host container storage
17:28:06 <yzhang> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/281
17:28:24 <yzhang> most recent update was from dustymabe after our last meeting
17:28:26 <dustymabe> we can move on - should have removed the meeting label last week
17:28:47 <dustymabe> done
17:28:53 <yzhang> cool
17:28:57 <yzhang> #topic fedimg: don't use 'builder' instance for uploading AMIs
17:29:03 <yzhang> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/269
17:29:09 <dustymabe> sayan: how we looking?
17:30:20 <sayan> this right now stalled
17:30:56 <dustymabe> plans to pick it back up?
17:31:31 <sayan> So, the plan to resume working is after the making snapshot public issue fix
17:31:46 <dustymabe> ok
17:31:48 <dustymabe> thanks
17:31:54 <yzhang> do we have a "blocked" tag
17:32:20 <yzhang> and/or do we want to remove the meeting tag for now
17:32:21 <dustymabe> looks like we do
17:32:27 <dustymabe> yzhang: probably
17:32:30 <dustymabe> i'll remove it
17:32:39 <yzhang> alrighty then
17:32:44 <yzhang> any other questions/concerns on this issue
17:32:47 <sayan> I will add the meeting tag after F26 release
17:33:16 <yzhang> Alright
17:33:31 <yzhang> moving on then
17:33:34 <yzhang> #topic open floor
17:33:45 <dustymabe> I have an item for open floor
17:33:47 <yzhang> That's it for the tickets
17:33:52 <maxamillion> nothing here
17:33:54 <yzhang> any open floor issues other than dustymabe ?
17:34:22 * roshi has nothing aside from please test the latest RCs as they show up and leave results on the wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_Summary
17:34:49 <dustymabe> yes - if you are interested in the cloud base image or the rest of fedora - please test things out
17:35:17 <dustymabe> #topic kubernetes sig
17:35:23 <dustymabe> i changed the topic for this one
17:35:33 <dustymabe> so we have a group of people interested in kube
17:35:48 <dustymabe> https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/287
17:36:08 <dustymabe> i'd like to identify the best way to break out this working group
17:36:21 <dustymabe> do we create a new issue tracker/mailing list ?
17:36:30 <dustymabe> do we piggy back on the atomic working group
17:36:39 <jbrooks> I say piggy back
17:36:49 <dustymabe> my goal really is to communicate to this group of people in the most efficient way possible
17:37:04 <yzhang> I don't suppose there is such a thing as a sub-group
17:37:07 <maxamillion> I say new issue tracker/mailing list
17:37:12 <dustymabe> i don't want them to miss messages or ignore messages because the signal to noise ration is too high
17:37:21 <kushal> Piggy back with tags for issues.
17:37:37 <maxamillion> anything that group has to discuss will likely be noise for me and I'm not sure how I'd properly filter it out on the mailing list
17:37:47 <yzhang> create a "kube-sig" tag on pagure?
17:37:49 <yzhang> something like that?
17:37:55 <maxamillion> but if I'm the only one, then that's fine ... I'll figure it out
17:38:01 <sayan> piggyback on the atomic wg
17:38:08 <dustymabe> can you filter pagure notifications based on tags?
17:38:39 <yzhang> no clue
17:38:52 <jbrooks> It's worth figuring out
17:38:53 <maxamillion> dustymabe: no
17:39:01 <sayan> I don't think so
17:39:02 <jbrooks> I'm sure all of us have some things they'd like to filter
17:39:31 <jbrooks> I guess I wouldn't mind a new tracker
17:39:35 <jbrooks> A new meeting, please no
17:39:47 <dustymabe> yeah yeah. no new meeting
17:39:52 <dustymabe> :)
17:40:00 <roshi> lol
17:40:06 <roshi> noise just comes with the territory
17:40:25 <kushal> yay :)
17:40:26 <dustymabe> ok i'm thinking a new tracker - also sometimes if issues are important to multiple groups then I open a tracker ticket
17:40:37 <dustymabe> i.e. sometimes I open an infra ticket and a corresponding atomic-wg ticket
17:40:37 <yzhang> dustymabe: maybe update the issue with the options, and have the interested member vote for it?
17:40:53 <dustymabe> yzhang: yeah I can try to do that
17:41:09 <yzhang> since a lot of the people aren't in the meeting today, I'd think they'd have more to weigh in
17:41:14 <jbrooks> And then some tracker trackers ;)
17:41:36 <dustymabe> jbrooks: well really it would be cool if pagure supported this feature (issue linking) or something
17:41:43 <dustymabe> anywho
17:41:45 <yzhang> #action dustymabe to update the kubernetes thread with tracking options
17:41:50 <dustymabe> sounds good
17:41:56 <dustymabe> I have one other thing
17:41:58 <yzhang> #undo
17:41:58 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by yzhang at 17:41:45 : dustymabe to update the kubernetes thread with tracking options
17:42:01 <yzhang> #action dustymabe to update the kubernetes thread with tracking options: https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/287
17:42:04 <yzhang> put the link there to
17:42:13 <yzhang> sorry, please continue dustymabe
17:42:32 <dustymabe> #topic cloud/atomic confusion
17:43:02 <dustymabe> i'm going to open a ticket for this too, but there are a lot of people that are confused about what we've done to get here
17:43:10 <roshi> we're finally advertising our confusion? :p
17:43:11 <dustymabe> a lot of people thing cloud base image is dead and atomic is what is left
17:43:12 * roshi ducks
17:43:18 <dustymabe> think*
17:43:38 <dustymabe> also a decent # of people don't understand why we use the cloud irc channel and the cloud mailing list
17:43:56 <maxamillion> yeah
17:44:02 <dustymabe> I think fedora 26 is a great time for fedora atomic to have it's own channel and own mailing list
17:44:03 <maxamillion> I have an Atomic Mailing list setup actualy
17:44:39 <dustymabe> i'll open a ticket for this for us to discuss
17:44:49 <yzhang> #action dustymabe to open a ticket for cloud/atomic confusion
17:44:52 <maxamillion> looks like someone also made a fedora-atomic-sig list
17:45:03 <walters> does the cloud list continue or it's closed?
17:45:08 <dustymabe> maxamillion: interesting - maybe we can consolidate
17:45:19 <maxamillion> dustymabe: yeah, probably should
17:45:23 <dustymabe> walters: cloud list would continue, but for the cloud base image and related items
17:45:33 <dustymabe> so there would be less traffic there
17:45:37 <roshi> yeah
17:45:45 <maxamillion> I made atomic@lists.fedoraproject.org and suggested a few months ago that we switch over .... don't really remember what happened there
17:45:47 <dustymabe> walters: opinions on that?
17:45:47 <roshi> that makes sense, though now there's more places to track :p
17:45:52 <maxamillion> we just kind of never did
17:46:16 <dustymabe> roshi: that's only because you and i are interested in both :)
17:46:36 <roshi> lol
17:46:41 <dustymabe> ok moving back to open floor
17:46:43 <dustymabe> #topic open floor
17:47:03 <kushal> Everyone ready for flock?
17:47:21 <dustymabe> kushal: good ask - who all got talks accepte?
17:47:23 <roshi> yup
17:47:28 <dustymabe> my atomic 101 workshop got accepted
17:47:34 <dustymabe> my state of fedora atomic host - did not
17:47:36 * roshi has one as well
17:47:40 <kushal> dustymabe, We will attend 101 :)
17:47:41 <yzhang> jbrooks and I have a 2-in-1
17:47:45 <kushal> roshi, Which one?
17:47:55 <yzhang> technically 2 talks I guess
17:48:20 <roshi> an update on the status of the Upstream First initiative
17:48:50 <roshi> tldr, getting RH tests ported to upstream and (hopefully) into dist-git, for CI/CD stuff
17:49:13 <kushal> roshi, Okay.
17:49:33 <dustymabe> cool deal
17:49:52 <roshi> related to this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Continuous_Integration_and_Delivery_of_Fedora_Atomic_Host
17:49:58 <dustymabe> maybe we can update the ticket that we had originally open to list out who got what talks accepted
17:50:13 <ksinny> +1
17:50:26 <maxamillion> my talk on the multi-arch container buildsys got accepted and the workshop that jberkus and I are doing did as well
17:50:26 <dustymabe> #info please update the ticket and say what talks were accepted for flock
17:50:29 <dustymabe> #unfo
17:50:32 <dustymabe> #undo
17:50:32 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by dustymabe at 17:50:26 : please update the ticket and say what talks were accepted for flock
17:50:34 <roshi> but there aren't really any cloud/atomic bits specific to mine
17:50:36 <dustymabe> #info please update the ticket and say what talks were accepted for flock https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/279
17:50:55 <yzhang> unfo also makes sense I suppose
17:51:18 <yzhang> zodbot not very lenient
17:51:32 <yzhang> anyhow, we have 9 more minutes, anything else for open floor?
17:51:35 <ksinny> Is there a plan or ongoing work towards making registry.fedoraproject.org available for keeping no-x86_64 container images as well?
17:52:10 <yzhang> maxamillion ^
17:52:12 <dustymabe> yzhang: I do have one more for open floor
17:52:29 <maxamillion> yzhang: there is a plan, we'll be using manifest lists for it
17:52:48 <yzhang> well, more so for ksinny ^
17:52:49 <ksinny> maxamillion: Nice, it will be awesome
17:52:50 <dustymabe> stef from the fedora CI efforts has a proposal for actually delivering atomic host from a CI pipeline (i.e. better testing for Atomic Host)
17:52:58 <dustymabe> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/ZS7XY7NHXGGOPOB2YKNQUWSDUGCMYIL5/
17:52:58 <maxamillion> yzhang: that way we don't have to namespace a bunch of stuff
17:53:11 <yzhang> gotcha
17:53:13 <dustymabe> please review that - he's going to discuss it with us next week at this meeting
17:53:27 <ksinny> maxamillion: Is there some place to follow-up or participate in related discussion?
17:53:40 <dustymabe> #info stef from the fedora CI efforts has a proposal for actually delivering atomic host from a CI pipeline: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/ZS7XY7NHXGGOPOB2YKNQUWSDUGCMYIL5/ please review that - he's going to discuss it with us next week at this meeting
17:53:53 <yzhang> dustymabe beats me to it
17:55:13 <yzhang> Anything else for open floor
17:55:32 <dustymabe> nothing from me
17:55:41 <yzhang> Giving it 30 seconds before I start the countdown
17:55:50 <kushal> 25.6
17:55:54 <roshi> thanks for running!
17:56:02 <yzhang> zodbot should play the final countdown during the last minute
17:56:09 <kushal> yzhang, Thank you for running the meeting.
17:56:13 <yzhang> RFE music integration
17:56:19 <yzhang> roshi, kushal: my pleasure :D
17:56:43 <yzhang> alrighty then,
17:56:43 <yzhang> 3
17:56:44 <yzhang> 2
17:56:45 <yzhang> 1
17:56:46 <yzhang> #endmeeting