17:01:32 <dustymabe> #startmeeting fedora_atomic_wg
17:01:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 13 17:01:32 2017 UTC.  The chair is dustymabe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:32 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_atomic_wg'
17:01:35 <dustymabe> #topic roll call
17:01:39 <dustymabe> .hello dustymabe
17:01:40 <kushal> .hellomynameis kushal
17:01:40 <zodbot> dustymabe: dustymabe 'Dusty Mabe' <dustymabe@redhat.com>
17:01:41 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
17:01:43 <zodbot> kushal: kushal 'Kushal Das' <mail@kushaldas.in>
17:01:46 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
17:01:48 <miabbott> .hello miabbott
17:01:52 <zodbot> miabbott: miabbott 'Micah Abbott' <miabbott@redhat.com>
17:01:53 <ksinny> .hello sinnykumari
17:01:54 <zodbot> ksinny: sinnykumari 'Sinny Kumari' <ksinny@gmail.com>
17:02:23 <dustymabe> roshi: around today for meeting?
17:02:27 <jbrooks> .hello jasonbrooks
17:02:28 <zodbot> jbrooks: jasonbrooks 'Jason Brooks' <JBROOKS@REDHAT.COM>
17:02:36 <roshi> .hello roshi
17:02:37 <zodbot> roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' <roshi@mykolab.com>
17:02:48 <roshi> how's it going folks?
17:03:11 <dustymabe> roshi: good good, glad to see you :)
17:03:27 <roshi> :D
17:03:32 * roshi is still around
17:03:36 <roshi> just not tracking nearly as much
17:05:22 <dustymabe> ok do we have everyone?
17:05:31 <dustymabe> walters: jlebon
17:05:39 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:05:39 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:05:50 <walters> .hellomynameis walters
17:05:51 <zodbot> walters: walters 'Colin Walters' <walters@redhat.com>
17:06:05 <dustymabe> #chair kushal sayan miabbott ksinny jbrooks roshi maxamillion dustymabe walters
17:06:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks ksinny kushal maxamillion miabbott roshi sayan walters
17:06:41 * dustymabe was waiting on tomas and eslobodo
17:06:43 <jlebon> .hello jlebon
17:06:44 <zodbot> jlebon: jlebon 'None' <jlebon@redhat.com>
17:06:49 <dustymabe> #chair jlebon
17:06:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks jlebon ksinny kushal maxamillion miabbott roshi sayan walters
17:06:58 <eslobodo_> .hello eslobodo
17:06:59 <zodbot> eslobodo_: eslobodo 'Eliska Slobodova' <eslobodo@redhat.com>
17:07:15 <dustymabe> yay
17:07:19 <dustymabe> ok let's get started
17:07:20 <eslobodo_> dustymabe: sorry for being late
17:07:25 <dustymabe> eslobodo_: no worries
17:07:31 <dustymabe> #topic previous meeting action items
17:07:59 <dustymabe> jbrooks to submit asciibinder pkg for review
17:08:01 <dustymabe> jberkus to follow up on partial container images from Flock
17:08:03 <dustymabe> jbrooks to create issue for adding examples to container guidelines
17:08:18 <dustymabe> where's jberkus when you need him?
17:08:21 <dustymabe> :)
17:08:22 <jbrooks> dustymabe, oh dang, I didn't do either of those -- the second I totally forgot
17:08:32 <dustymabe> jbrooks: no worries
17:08:34 <jbrooks> #action jbrooks to submit asciibinder pkg for review
17:08:41 <jbrooks> #action jbrooks to create issue for adding examples to container guidelines
17:09:03 <dustymabe> since josh isn't here...
17:09:09 <dustymabe> #action jberkus to follow up on partial container images from Flock
17:09:19 <dustymabe> ok moving on
17:09:23 <jbrooks> He's at osssummit
17:09:36 <dustymabe> #topic  [Test Day] Proposed Dates for F27 Atomic Test Day
17:09:43 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/322
17:10:08 <dustymabe> we had sumantrom ask us about a test day for FAH for 27
17:10:17 <dustymabe> let's try to find a time where we can get together and test things
17:10:52 <dustymabe> any ideas for a good time for this?
17:10:54 * roshi will try to do some testing at least
17:11:03 <ttomecek> o/
17:11:08 <dustymabe> ttomecek: \o
17:11:11 <dustymabe> #chair ttomecek
17:11:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jbrooks jlebon ksinny kushal maxamillion miabbott roshi sayan ttomecek walters
17:11:26 <dustymabe> roshi: will you help us navigate wiki land?
17:11:45 <roshi> gimme a date and I'll try to pull the things together
17:11:51 <maxamillion> ttomecek: \o
17:12:07 <dustymabe> proposals for dates anyone?
17:12:11 <roshi> but still check in with the QA team, file a ticket and it'll be tracked at least
17:12:12 <dustymabe> we aren't technically tied to beta
17:12:35 <dustymabe> so we don't have to wait for beta to do testing (and i might even prefer that so we can get fixes in sooner)
17:12:38 * ksinny is available for test day till next week. will be away from work between 23rd sep to 2nd oct.
17:12:44 * dustymabe looks at schedule
17:13:06 <kushal> Same with me (about the schedule ksinny shared)
17:13:11 <dustymabe> 2017-09-05  Beta Freeze (*)
17:13:12 <dustymabe> 2017-09-19  Beta Release (Target date)
17:13:14 <dustymabe> 2017-09-26  Beta Release (Rain date)
17:13:16 <dustymabe> 2017-10-10  Final Freeze (*)
17:13:18 <dustymabe> 2017-10-24  Fedora 27 Final Release (GA) (Target date)
17:13:20 <dustymabe> 2017-10-31  Fedora 27 Final Release (GA) (Rain date)
17:14:16 <dustymabe> ehh - so let's just target next week then
17:14:19 <dustymabe> anyone opposed?
17:14:26 <maxamillion> not I
17:14:58 <dustymabe> friday is probably best since people are usually busier with meetings during the other days of the week
17:15:14 <dustymabe> ehh, or thursday
17:15:20 <dustymabe> votes?
17:15:27 <dustymabe> oh damn
17:15:40 <dustymabe> just realized i'm going on a trip next thurs/friday
17:15:45 <jbrooks> heh
17:15:48 <dustymabe> *facepalm*
17:15:51 <ksinny> heh
17:15:58 <roshi> I'm fine with whatever - though there's potential for window in there where I won't be around
17:16:04 <roshi> just as an FYI
17:16:07 <dustymabe> roshi: of course
17:16:10 <jbrooks> how about next wed
17:16:17 <sayan> wednesday then?
17:16:23 <maxamillion> yeah, just whenever
17:16:36 <dustymabe> wed works
17:16:41 <dustymabe> anyone opposed?
17:16:47 <ksinny> works for me
17:16:56 <maxamillion> works for me as well
17:17:22 <dustymabe> ok
17:17:42 <dustymabe> #agreed, will try to shoot for a test day for next friday for Fedora Atomic Host
17:18:08 <ksinny> dustymabe: wednesday, I believe
17:18:11 <jbrooks> dustymabe, next fri?
17:18:19 <dustymabe> #undo
17:18:19 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by dustymabe at 17:17:42 : , will try to shoot for a test day for next friday for Fedora Atomic Host
17:18:24 <maxamillion> :)
17:18:30 <dustymabe> agreed, will try to shoot for a test day for next wednesday for Fedora Atomic Host
17:18:34 <dustymabe> #agreed, will try to shoot for a test day for next wednesday for Fedora Atomic Host
17:18:38 <dustymabe> :)
17:18:39 <roshi> next wednesday is a short timeline to get the word out
17:18:42 <dustymabe> real time collaboration
17:19:12 <dustymabe> roshi: yeah
17:19:28 <dustymabe> so i'm out th/fr and ksinny and kushal are out the following week
17:19:40 <sayan> I am also out the following week
17:19:49 <dustymabe> sayan: :(
17:19:53 <dustymabe> holiday in India?
17:20:08 <ksinny> dustymabe: yup, long festival
17:20:26 <ksinny> going hometown
17:20:32 <dustymabe> +1
17:20:35 <dustymabe> roshi: thoughts?
17:20:52 <dustymabe> obviously we don't need everyone present for a test day, but let's try to find a good balance
17:20:58 <maxamillion> ksinny: very cool, have fun!
17:21:09 <ksinny> maxamillion: thanks :)
17:21:11 <roshi> I'll be around in passing, but not full time to help people out
17:21:15 <roshi> $dayjob and all
17:21:22 <dustymabe> roshi: of course
17:21:53 <walters> hey, i forget how to inject topics, but let's add https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts/pull-request/266
17:22:18 <dustymabe> walters: ok
17:22:56 <dustymabe> roshi.. advice on best path forward?
17:23:15 <roshi> should be able to basically reuse the last atomic test day
17:23:30 <roshi> unless there's some new thing you want tested
17:23:47 <roshi> someone needs to write up something for the community blog
17:23:59 <roshi> and twit about it on the tweeter and such :)
17:24:00 <dustymabe> roshi: mostly from last time. and maybe we can get something from jbrooks/strigazi for testing kube in system containers
17:24:11 <dustymabe> roshi, mostly asking for advice on date
17:24:23 <dustymabe> i.e. do you think next wednesday is too soon?
17:24:39 <roshi> if you want to add tests, like for kube, I'd say give yourselves 2 weeks to get everything in order
17:25:03 <roshi> I'd say it's too soon, but it all depends on how hard you want to push
17:25:25 <dustymabe> ok i'll add all of this info to the ticket
17:25:51 * dustymabe wishes we didn't have too choose between "too soon", "many people being AFK", and "pending release"
17:25:52 <dustymabe> :)
17:25:58 <dustymabe> s/too/to
17:26:08 <roshi> nature of the beast my friend :)
17:26:11 <dustymabe> right
17:26:41 <dustymabe> ksinny: sayan: kushal: if we do it the week you are away we'll make sure to have some material in place for you to run through before/after your vacay
17:26:55 <kushal> dustymabe, Okay.
17:26:59 <dustymabe> next topic
17:27:03 <ksinny> dustymabe: sure
17:27:05 <jbrooks> for kube tests, I'd do: http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2017/09/running-kubernetes-on-fedora-atomic-26/
17:27:09 <jbrooks> but w/ f27
17:27:17 <dustymabe> ttomecek: eslobodo do you mind me bringing up your work as a topic?
17:27:51 <ttomecek> dustymabe, no problem
17:28:03 <dustymabe> #topic work from ttomecek eslobodo on fedora containers
17:28:11 <sayan> Okay
17:28:18 <dustymabe> ttomecek: and eslobodo have been doing some work on getting our container offerings in better shape
17:28:31 <dustymabe> ttomecek: eslobodo can you speak about it and let people know what you've been up to?
17:28:59 <ttomecek> one of the goals of our team (userspace containerization) is to containerize more things
17:29:20 <ttomecek> and improve existing image: hence we did tools, systemtap and vsftpd recently
17:29:40 <ttomecek> Eliska is working hard on improving container best practices
17:30:03 <eslobodo> other goal is to support modularity, so we're also turning some of the images to use modules
17:30:18 <eslobodo> pretty much all of our work is here: https://github.com/container-images
17:30:43 <dustymabe> eslobodo: about modularity.. how is that going to work with our current container image release process?
17:30:46 <ttomecek> we are also trying to come up with an easy way to test containers and images: I hope we'll be able to share something soon
17:30:57 <dustymabe> where we have images under a namespace like f25/httpd ?
17:31:25 <ttomecek> dustymabe, for boltron, we created a new modular base image which lives in its own namespace
17:31:40 <ttomecek> I'm not sure if this is gonna be the same for modular f27
17:31:46 <maxamillion> the base image has it's own tag, not it's own namespace
17:31:48 <maxamillion> right?
17:31:59 <dustymabe> #info ttomecek and eslobodo's team (userspace containerization) is trying to containerize more things and improve existing images. The did tools container, systemtap and vsftpd recently. Check them out!
17:32:13 <ttomecek> maxamillion, yup: registry.fedoraproject.org/f26-modular/boltron
17:32:18 <maxamillion> ah ok
17:32:19 <maxamillion> awesome
17:32:28 <maxamillion> +1
17:32:33 <maxamillion> I think the one on docker hub is just a tag
17:32:44 <maxamillion> I can't ever remember all this stuff, so many moving parts
17:32:52 <dustymabe> ttomecek eslobodo thanks
17:33:25 <ttomecek> dustymabe, you're welcome (back to dinner :D)
17:33:26 <dustymabe> ttomecek: eslobodo. if you don't mind please put any big initiatives you are working on into the atomic-wg issue tracker. this will help everyone know what is being worked on and also if they can help
17:34:27 <ttomecek> dustymabe, sounds like a good idea, I'm just worried about keeping it up to date
17:34:53 <dustymabe> ttomecek: :) "big initiatives"
17:35:07 <dustymabe> hopefully not too many of them
17:35:26 <eslobodo> we're also trying hard to keep everything in as few places as possible :) but we'll try :)
17:35:28 <roshi> "We're working on FOo and here's a TL;DR:" is probably enough :)
17:35:38 <dustymabe> thanks again ttomecek and eslobodo
17:36:02 <dustymabe> #topic update partitioning model in Fedora Atomic Host
17:36:11 <dustymabe> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts/pull-request/266
17:36:19 <dustymabe> walters: ^^
17:36:43 <walters> i'm going to test that PR again right now
17:37:12 <dustymabe> walters: so this PR makes it so that the cloud images come with their entire disk utilized ?
17:37:30 <walters> there was a ton of discussion on this but i think we should (after I test) merge it and we can adjust on feedback
17:37:35 <walters> dustymabe, yeah
17:37:53 <maxamillion> +1
17:38:02 <dustymabe> walters: I'm +1 for rawhide
17:38:15 <walters> you're really thinking we wouldn't do this for 27?
17:38:39 <dustymabe> walters: i'm just thinking that we should test it first in rawhide
17:39:06 <walters> okay
17:39:07 <dustymabe> i don't want to merge/revert in f27 right now because of 'freeze'
17:39:33 <walters> the problem with rawhide as dev stream is without a sane ability to revert it constantly breaks
17:40:00 <walters> it's always been that way of course
17:40:06 <dustymabe> walters: yeah. good news is that it seems to be working right now :)
17:40:13 <dustymabe> https://github.com/projectatomic/atomic-host-tests
17:40:16 <maxamillion> dustymabe: today ;)
17:40:58 <dustymabe> walters: i still think we should consider scrapping LVM at some point
17:41:03 <walters> but a-h-t don't gate RPMs
17:41:19 <walters> actually they don't affect the FAH release streams directly in any automated way at all
17:41:20 <dustymabe> right, but i'm just pointing that it's passing tests
17:41:37 <walters> anyways yes
17:41:39 <dustymabe> so rawhide seems in an ok state for right now, so we should be able to test this
17:41:52 <miabbott> fwiw, a-h-t doesn't have any tests that would find an issue with the new partitioning scheme
17:42:00 <miabbott> other than 'oops, it doesn't boot'
17:42:05 <dustymabe> miabbott: correct
17:42:17 <dustymabe> ok next topic
17:42:25 <dustymabe> #topic packages in fedora 27 atomic host
17:43:05 <dustymabe> so the diff between f26 and f28 includes removing "kubernetes", "etcd","flannel""glusterfs", "glusterfs-fuse", ceph-common
17:43:22 <dustymabe> we are +1 to keeping kubernetes out (thanks jbrooks/strigazi/yzhang)
17:43:41 <dustymabe> i think the glusterfs stuff at least needs to go back in (glusterfs/kubernetes work)
17:43:41 <maxamillion> +1
17:43:48 <maxamillion> does it?
17:43:52 <dustymabe> strigazi wanted to also keep ceph-common
17:44:06 <dustymabe> maxamillion: what's the question?
17:44:08 <maxamillion> I thought you could run glusterfs containerized (I'm pretty sure that's how openshift does it)
17:44:24 <miabbott> can't we just layer in those pkgs afterwards?  seems like most users don't have a use case for them
17:44:28 <dustymabe> maxamillion: right, but I think it uses glusterfs-fuse on the host for some stuff
17:44:38 <maxamillion> dustymabe: hrmmm....
17:44:48 <dustymabe> maxamillion: i could be wrong
17:44:56 <maxamillion> dustymabe: also what miabbott said, can't we just layer that stuff in based on the user/admin's preferences/desires?
17:44:57 <dustymabe> i will open a ticket and ask the maintainer to comment
17:45:05 <maxamillion> keep the base lean, let people use it however they want
17:45:06 <jbrooks> +1 to layering
17:45:30 <miabbott> +1 lean base
17:45:57 <dustymabe> so the only problem i have with that at this point is we haven't taught any tools to do package layering
17:46:07 <dustymabe> like openshift-ansible
17:46:26 <jbrooks> Does openshift-ansible need any of those pkgs?
17:46:41 <dustymabe> jbrooks: i'll open a ticket and get the maintainer to comment on that
17:46:53 <dustymabe> i think it does, but I don't want to be wrong
17:47:19 <dustymabe> jbrooks: and of course it only matters if you try to use gluster as part of openshift-ansible
17:47:26 <dustymabe> make sense?
17:48:01 <jbrooks> What I find weird is that we've already decided to remove these -- they were removed, it was committed, and now we have to keep talking about adding them back
17:48:02 <dustymabe> #action dustymabe to open ticket regarding gluster/ceph packages in FAH
17:48:13 <maxamillion> dustymabe: we can add that though
17:48:33 <jbrooks> Layering is fine, it'd be good to have an ansible module that knows about it
17:48:46 <jbrooks> Same w/ system containers
17:48:58 <dustymabe> any volunteers for a package layering ansible module?
17:49:18 <maxamillion> the openshift-ansible team is quick to merge things
17:49:39 <maxamillion> dustymabe: I'll look into it
17:49:46 <dustymabe> maxamillion: yes they are, but what changes to openshift ansible would we need to make?
17:49:56 <maxamillion> dustymabe: don't know just yet
17:49:58 <jbrooks> https://github.com/openshift/openshift-ansible/blob/master/roles/etcd/tasks/system_container.yml
17:49:59 <walters> i thought we'd talked about teaching the generic ansible `pkg` module how to do this
17:50:07 <jbrooks> they just use command:
17:50:09 <dustymabe> maxamillion: also, that 'module' could use some design discussion :)
17:50:21 <walters> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/21185
17:50:28 <jbrooks> for the system containers, we could do the same w/ layering
17:50:38 <maxamillion> dustymabe: we can setup an open invitation bluejeans call to hash it out
17:50:48 <dustymabe> sure
17:51:02 <dustymabe> ok so that is for the gluster/ceph stuff
17:51:08 <dustymabe> flannel/etcd ?
17:51:20 <jbrooks> We have system containers for those
17:51:24 <dustymabe> i'm +1 for keeping flannel out
17:51:27 <maxamillion> +1
17:51:39 <dustymabe> i could see etcd as a general purpose "cluster" thing that could be useful left in
17:51:53 <dustymabe> but either way works for me
17:51:54 <jbrooks> But just as easily run in a container
17:51:58 <jbrooks> or with layering
17:52:13 <miabbott> containers or gtfo
17:52:22 <dustymabe> haha
17:52:25 <maxamillion> heh
17:52:35 <miabbott> i kid, i kid
17:52:41 <jbrooks> It's out now, the Q is do we need it back in, the answer is no
17:52:46 <miabbott> but i'm +1 to removing etcd
17:52:53 <dustymabe> jbrooks: 'now' is relative
17:53:09 <dustymabe> last 2WA release has it 'in'
17:53:17 <jbrooks> I refer to the actual current state of the f27 json
17:53:18 <maxamillion> +1 to removing etcd also
17:53:19 <jbrooks> right?
17:53:25 <maxamillion> remove everything not absolutely necessary
17:53:28 <dustymabe> jbrooks: indeed, you are right
17:53:36 <dustymabe> maxamillion: tmux ?
17:53:38 <dustymabe> :)
17:53:55 <walters> now that is an interesting topic =)
17:54:13 <miabbott> let's not be hasty
17:54:34 <maxamillion> dustymabe: leave it out
17:54:46 <maxamillion> I can layer it in for my needs, but not everyone wants it
17:54:59 <dustymabe> #info decided to keep kube/etcd/flannel out of the ostree in f27. will visit topic of ceph/gluster in an issue where we can ask the maintainer if openshift-ansible needs it to be installed on the host. If we teach ansible how to package layer then removing more things could happen.
17:55:22 <dustymabe> fair?
17:55:27 <maxamillion> do we still need to reboot after a package layer operation?
17:55:31 <maxamillion> dustymabe: yes, fair +1
17:55:37 <dustymabe> maxamillion: short answer yes
17:55:41 <miabbott> i guess that means we have to drop 'screen' too?
17:55:46 <jbrooks> dustymabe, we should point out that ansible doesn't know how to do system containers, either
17:55:47 <dustymabe> long answer, no, but it's experimental
17:55:50 <jbrooks> it just runs the command
17:56:10 <jbrooks> So, it knows just as much how to layer
17:56:28 <maxamillion> miabbott: yeah, I'd throw out screen too
17:56:35 <miabbott> savage
17:56:45 <miabbott> strace?  tcpdump?
17:56:56 <maxamillion> I *live* in tmux, but still think it should be out
17:56:57 <dustymabe> ok anyone opposed to moving to next topic?
17:57:02 <maxamillion> yup, strace and tcpdump out
17:57:19 <maxamillion> actually ... no, maybe
17:57:31 <dustymabe> #topic open floor
17:57:32 <maxamillion> debugging if something goes sideways and you can't install packages that might be useful
17:57:49 <dustymabe> anyone with anything for open floor ?
17:57:53 <maxamillion> not I
17:58:02 <dustymabe> any modularity news/questions?
17:59:03 <walters> i think that will be a background topic...hopefully pick it up more again next week
17:59:39 <dustymabe> cool cool. I'll close this out in 60 seconds
18:00:27 <dustymabe> #endmeeting