16:01:29 <jsmith> #startmeeting Fedora Board (Public IRC) Meeting
16:01:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun 21 16:01:29 2011 UTC.  The chair is jsmith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:43 <jsmith> #meetingname Fedora Board
16:01:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_board'
16:02:11 <jsmith> #chair jds2001 abadger1999 gomix jreznik_n900 ke4qqq rdieter_work
16:02:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 gomix jds2001 jreznik_n900 jsmith ke4qqq rdieter_work
16:02:20 <jsmith> #topic Roll Call (for Board members)
16:02:41 * jsmith is here
16:02:43 <rdieter_work> hola
16:02:47 * jds2001 here
16:02:50 * gomix Guillermo Gómez saludos
16:02:59 * jreznik_n900 is half here
16:03:03 <jsmith> abadger1999 and jreznik_n900 are half-here
16:03:12 <jsmith> pbrobinson couldn't join us today, due to work obligations
16:03:18 * abadger1999 waves
16:03:53 <jsmith> #topic Welcome to new Board members
16:04:09 <jsmith> I'd like to start off today's meeting by welcoming our new (and returning) Board members
16:04:17 * ke4qqq is here
16:04:40 <jsmith> Guillermo Gomez (gomix) was appointed to the Board, and rdieter_work and jds2001 and pbrobinson were elected to Board seats
16:04:56 <jsmith> (Rex and Jon are returning members)
16:05:20 <jsmith> In addition, there will be one more appointment coming very soon -- I'm hoping to announce it in the next day or two.
16:05:55 <jsmith> I'm very happy to see we have a great group of people on the Board -- people who work hard, communicate well, and believe in the future of Fedora
16:06:06 <jsmith> Thank you for being willing to serve the community
16:06:51 <jsmith> #topic Status updates
16:07:04 <jsmith> Just by way of information, here are some status updates:
16:07:29 <jsmith> FUDCon APAC bids are due by end of the day (UTC time) on Thursday the 23rd.
16:07:42 <jsmith> So far, we have two bids: Pune, India and Beijing, China
16:08:14 <jsmith> Both look like excellent bids
16:08:42 <jsmith> Soon after the winning bid is selected, we'll open up the bidding for FUDCon APAC 2012
16:08:53 <jsmith> (as we want FUDCon APAC earlier in the year next year)
16:09:07 <jsmith> FUDCon EMEA is September 30th through October 2nd in Milan, Italy
16:09:30 <jsmith> We're having weekly planning meetings for Milan on Fridays at 15:00 UTC in #fudcon-planning
16:09:41 <jsmith> Please join us if you have interest in helping out with the planning
16:09:48 <abadger1999> Should FUDCon latam 2012 be starting  the bid process now as well?
16:10:14 <jsmith> abadger1999: Yes, I'll be announcing that next week as well
16:10:18 * gomix will try to help as much as possible for milan
16:10:19 <abadger1999> Excellent
16:10:27 <rdieter_work> fudcon-planning fun never ends...
16:10:40 <jsmith> And, last but not least, FUDCon North America is January 13-15 in Blacksburg, Virginia, USA
16:10:53 <jsmith> rdieter_work: Yeah, especially since we'll have three FUDCons in four months :-/
16:11:09 * jsmith spends a good chunk of his time working to make sure the FUDCon events are successful
16:11:20 <jds2001> jsmith: at least you rack up the miles :D
16:11:39 <jsmith> The FUDCon NA planning meetings will start next week, and will likely be Wednesdays at 16:00 UTC
16:11:42 <gomix> jsmith: u delivered already afaik
16:11:59 <jsmith> jds2001: It's not about me :-p
16:12:17 <jsmith> In other status updates, the Fedora 16 development cycle is well underway
16:12:25 <jsmith> Feature submission deadline is less than a month away
16:12:43 <jsmith> (July 12th if my memory serves me)
16:13:14 <jsmith> As always, we've got some pretty aggressive features on the feature list, so please take a moment to go over the list and/or propose your own features
16:14:06 * abadger1999 calls out SysVtoSystemd feature as needing a lot of  manpower.
16:14:21 <jsmith> abadger1999: Can you give us a status update on the FPCA?
16:14:43 <abadger1999> jsmith: Sure
16:15:04 <abadger1999> Complete statistics on signing are here: http://toshio.fedorapeople.org/fpca/
16:15:16 <abadger1999> We're in pretty good shape.
16:15:26 <abadger1999> The two areas that seem most important are:
16:15:30 * rdieter_work was worried
16:15:37 <abadger1999> http://toshio.fedorapeople.org/fpca/groups_losing_admins.txt
16:15:47 <abadger1999> Which looks like all the groups there are fine.
16:16:00 <abadger1999> and http://toshio.fedorapeople.org/fpca/packages_losing_owner.txt
16:16:34 <abadger1999> Which is a large number but not insanely large and doesn't seem to have too many core packages.
16:16:41 <abadger1999> Recent things we've done:
16:16:58 <abadger1999> We've taken all hosted groups and removed the requirement for cla_done.
16:17:41 <abadger1999> I've asked hosted groups that want to require cla_done to open an infra ticket to have me readd that so that I can remove group members who have not signed the fpca at the same time.
16:17:52 <abadger1999> I know some groups wanted to do that -- but so far, no tickets.
16:18:07 <abadger1999> so, please open tickets people :-)
16:18:26 <abadger1999> The other thing we've done is start reassinging packages that will be orphaned.
16:19:00 <jds2001> reassigning how? to whom?
16:19:06 <abadger1999> This has taken some packages that are deps (like pyopenSSL) and some stacks of packages (games, mono stack) off the list which is good.
16:19:13 <rdieter_work> jds2001: to whowever asks
16:19:26 <abadger1999> jds2001: To volunteers.  The list of pakcages to be orphaned was sent to devel@lists.fp.o
16:19:42 <abadger1999> jds2001: and I've been reassigning to packagers who say they'd like to take over.
16:19:48 <jds2001> ahhh, cool.
16:20:04 <abadger1999> The last stack of packages that I see that are problematic are the font related ones.
16:20:23 <abadger1999> Some people have pinged the owner to see if he'll sign the fpca (but just been busy)
16:20:40 <abadger1999> and I think I've got someone who's agreed to take them over should the owner not want to sign the fpca.
16:21:05 <jds2001> are there folks not signing the fpca by choice?
16:21:10 <jds2001> what is their issue with it?
16:21:28 <jds2001> i.e. by choice instead of absentee folks.
16:21:30 <abadger1999> Unless a problem is found we'll be orphaning packages on Thursday after the infra meeting.
16:21:37 * rdieter_work hasn't seen or heard any complaints
16:21:39 <abadger1999> jds2001: Not that I know of.
16:21:56 <jsmith> OK, sounds like we're in pretty good shape then.
16:22:04 <jsmith> Thanks for the status update, abadger1999
16:22:11 <jsmith> Any other status updates from the Board?
16:23:08 * gomix is just thinking about milan fudcon domain request... did not see in the agenda...
16:23:21 <jsmith> gomix: Ah, yes... We'll cover that next
16:23:26 * jsmith knew he was forgetting something
16:23:33 <jsmith> #topic FUDCon domain request
16:23:59 * jds2001 thinks the request is interesting, but what problem does it solve?
16:24:23 <jds2001> (that our current tinyurl "solution" doesnt')
16:24:24 <jds2001> \
16:24:24 <rdieter_work> jds2001: +1 , I'm worried we'll end up with more potentially unmaintained websites/domains to worry about
16:24:41 <jsmith> jds2001: Primarily, that the wiki pages for FUDCons are hard to find
16:24:51 <gomix> i dont see a reall "problem" being solved.. its my understanding its just to get a pretier face
16:25:04 <gomix> which i agree we need..
16:25:11 <jsmith> It doesn't have to be another separate domain -- it could be something as simple as "fudcon.fedoraproject.org"
16:25:26 <gomix> yeap it could
16:25:45 <jds2001> 
16:25:55 <gomix> but rdieter_work worries are shared here...
16:26:02 <ke4qqq> yes, but then which fudcon - with several happening in a short window...at best it's going to be a link to the different wiki pages.
16:26:08 <rdieter_work> fudcon.fpo is ok with me, provided someone (websites team, etc...) commits to maintaining it
16:26:20 <rbergeron> !
16:26:28 <jsmith> => rbergeron
16:26:29 <abadger1999> Is the question two fold?  1) Can we have a new domain? 2) Can the domain pointot an externally hosted/non-infra managed service?
16:26:38 <rbergeron> so my understanding from reading hte request was that they'd like to solve a few problems:
16:27:09 <rbergeron> (a) Wikis are hard for new contributors to read/follow/participate in. part of what they were discussing was more of a "fill in the box" method for registering.
16:28:02 <rbergeron> (b) To make it a nicer page in viewing, which might help with participation, and also in getting press attention (and specifically, it was mentioned that they'd like it as a better presence for the press angle)
16:28:30 <rbergeron> That said: I agree that someone needs to commit to ongoing maintainership; the idea of doing a one-off has potential for being confusing, etc.
16:28:43 <rbergeron> particularly with multiple fudcons, etc.
16:29:03 * jds2001 thinks this needs to be driven from the websites team....
16:29:13 <rbergeron> But Haivng it be a front page to... basically clicking on the wiki doesn't really solve a whole lot, other than the "we look nice on the outside, so people sign up" thing.
16:29:28 <jsmith> I know that there is some ongoing work to incorporate events into Fedora Insight -- so this may just be a stopgap solution until we see what that brings
16:29:39 <tatica> it is
16:29:50 <rbergeron> .... but,
16:30:03 * ke4qqq agrees with jds2001
16:30:19 <ke4qqq> and even if that means a new contributor or two for the websites team
16:30:37 <rbergeron> I think it *could* be, as a one-off (fudconmilan.fp.o), with help from the milan folks, an interesting pilot to see if we gain anything, which might determine whether or not someone from websites finds it to be a worthwhile investment, and see if pepole are willing ot make it be a more sustainable effort.
16:30:55 <tatica> !
16:31:02 * rbergeron shuts up now
16:31:14 <jsmith> abadger1999: To get back to your question -- it really is two questions -- that of the new domain, and what it can point at
16:31:22 <jsmith> => tatica
16:31:43 <tatica> there is already some work going. We have a static html that is beig migrated to drupal, hiemanshu and nushio are awared of ideas provided by EMEA folks, and a need for a website (EMEA)
16:32:10 <tatica> fo a fudconXX.fp.org won't work since will bring at least 4 domains per year that won't work every year
16:32:20 * rdieter_work didn't think fedora-admin/websites supported drupal, unless this is some 3rd-party site?
16:32:34 <tatica> so is easier to use a more generic structure, that lets each year (or each 4 months) be taken by a FUDcon team
16:32:38 <jds2001> rdieter_work: for insight we do.
16:32:40 <ke4qqq> insight is using drupal
16:32:44 <jsmith> rdieter_work: It's being done on the logistics list -- stickster is driving it
16:32:47 <tatica> fudcon.fp.org/region/year
16:32:48 <tatica> eof
16:32:51 <rdieter_work> ok
16:33:29 <gomix> i must say a shorter domains leads to a better structure, easy to remember..etc...
16:33:36 * jds2001 is fine with that. I don't like something as important as fudcon being on a non-infra site though
16:34:00 <jds2001> we monitor it, etc if it's on Fedora infra
16:34:00 <rdieter_work> so, to parrot a previous comment, this should probably drive through the websites team, given we say A-OK, are we?
16:34:19 <ke4qqq> yeah, it should be on an infra/websites managed site.
16:34:21 <gomix> yes...
16:34:33 <jsmith> rdieter_work: I think that's the gist I'm looking for
16:34:45 <rdieter_work> consider me a-ok then, +1
16:34:48 * jds2001 is fine with the domain being hosted on Fedora infra, assuming the infra team says AOK to that (and I'm not sure why the wouldnt since we already maintain insight)
16:35:23 <abadger1999> jds2001: Well -- If I'm reading everything right, the current implementation is not based on insight/drupal?
16:35:42 <abadger1999> That work is targetted post-milan?
16:35:47 * ke4qqq is ok if people want to do the work, but it's a lot of work to do between now and fudcon milan, which makes me fear it not happening
16:35:47 <jsmith> abadger1999: There is not current implementation.  There's a (static) theme, but no current website.
16:35:48 <jds2001> abadger1999: i thought they were working to migrate it?
16:36:06 <rbergeron> !
16:36:11 <jsmith> abadger1999: It's been suggested that a static site be built for Milan, but so far, I haven't seen anything but the theme
16:36:15 <jsmith> => rbergeron
16:36:22 * rdieter_work doesn't think we (here) should get bogged down in implementation details, that's for admin/websites to sort out, no?
16:36:29 <jsmith> rdieter_work: +1
16:36:39 * rbergeron thinks it's a great idea if people are wiling to do the work, but would just like to make sure that people are outlining the differenes betweeen what goes on the wiki and what goes on the website, and that the wiki isn't vanishing for planning purposes.
16:36:42 <jds2001> rdieter_work: +1
16:36:58 <jsmith> Our job is to make a strategic decision, and let the websites/infra teams work out the tools/details
16:37:01 <jsmith> rbergeron: +1
16:37:12 <jds2001> rbergeron: +1
16:37:13 <jsmith> This is not to replace the wiki pages, just to augment them
16:37:16 <abadger1999> rbergeron: +1  FUDCon planning is head and shoulders more transparent than anything else I've been a part of.
16:37:17 <rbergeron> But those details can be addressed outside of this meeting, obviously.
16:37:33 <jsmith> (And, to be perfectly honest, I've had a hard time getting the Milan team to put more details on the wiki)
16:37:36 <rbergeron> So long as the intent isn't to replace the wiki, I think it's fabuloso.
16:37:57 <gomix> jsmith: thats the part that worries me...
16:38:02 <abadger1999> +1 for this being okay to proceed with but infra and websites get to decide if they can/want to implement it or not.
16:38:15 <gomix> +1
16:38:24 <jds2001> abadger1999: +1
16:38:29 <jsmith> OK, any objections to moving forward, assuming infra/websites want to move forward?
16:38:37 <abadger1999> for the record, I'm probably also okay with it being hosted outside of infra but that's a bridge to cross if necessary I guess.
16:38:48 <jsmith> abadger1999: Noted :-)
16:39:30 <jsmith> OK, I'm not sure we have a quorum, but it looks like the Board members present are in agreement
16:39:59 * ke4qqq thinks we have a quorum....
16:40:00 <jsmith> Would someone volunteer to summarize this on the advisory-board list?
16:40:17 * ke4qqq can do that.
16:40:30 <jsmith> OK, we do have a quorum.  I can't count.
16:40:32 <gomix> im not sure 100% about what we agreed on the domain, or just postponed
16:40:53 <jsmith> Right, we'll let websites and infrastructure hammer out the exact details on the domain name, path, tools, etc.
16:41:00 <gomix> Ok
16:41:40 <gomix> however i think the domain name, if its going to be a new one, is up to the board ¿right?
16:41:55 <jsmith> #agreed Board is OK with having a subdomain point to FUDCons, as long as the websites team and infrastructure team are comfortable moving forward, and that there is community to build and maintain the site(s)
16:42:15 <jsmith> gomix: Yes, but it's better if they suggest a name to us and we approve it, rather than us trying to come up with the name on our own
16:42:31 <gomix> fine.. so we wait for the suggestions :)
16:42:39 <tatica> !
16:42:40 <ke4qqq> gomix: if it's a subdomain I really don't care
16:42:53 * jds2001 either
16:43:05 * jds2001 doesnt think a subdomain needs board approval
16:43:06 <gomix> i just care because it should be a nicer shorter domain name imho
16:43:14 <tatica> (suggestions are already at maillist) eof
16:43:21 <gomix> from a marketing perspective.. but lets wait
16:43:24 * ke4qqq assumes that websites and infra are smart enough to pick a decent name.
16:43:28 <gomix> yeap
16:43:40 <jsmith> OK, anything further on this topic?
16:43:49 * jsmith would like to save some time for open Q and A
16:44:49 <jds2001> +1 for Q&A
16:45:11 <jsmith> #topic Reminder of Board goals for next two Fedora releases
16:45:15 <jsmith> OK, very quickly here:
16:45:26 <jsmith> Just a reminder of our three Board goals for the F16 and F17 releases.
16:45:51 <jsmith> I'm personally going to concentrate on communication and mentorship, and try to lead by example in both areas
16:46:36 * jreznik_n900 would like to do the same as jsmith
16:46:38 <jsmith> I encourage everyone to review the goals and think about efforts they can make to make progress in those three areas
16:47:09 <jsmith> I'm also giving the Board members an open pass to chastise me if I'm not communicative enough, or if I don't follow through on mentorship :-p
16:47:43 <jsmith> Anything else on this topic?
16:48:02 <jsmith> #topic Open questions and answers
16:48:09 <jsmith> OK, time for open Q and A
16:48:41 <jsmith> Please remember to use the protocol as described at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/IRC#General_Rules
16:48:52 * gomix got to run in 10min
16:48:59 * jds2001 too
16:49:01 <jsmith> (as always, Board members are encouraged to dive right in and answer as quickly as possible)
16:49:22 <jsmith> Type "?" if you have a question, then wait to be called on.
16:49:31 <jsmith> Type "!" if you have a comment on the current question
16:50:50 <jds2001> anyone? dont be shy :)
16:51:59 <inode0> !
16:52:26 <inode0> You guys need to be more provocative maybe to generate questions
16:52:59 <ke4qqq> inode0: so we should suggest moving to unity, or reverting to sysvinit, or something like that?
16:53:06 <ke4qqq> :)
16:53:26 <rdieter_work> wayland!
16:53:30 <jds2001> windows is the best!
16:53:41 * jds2001 hides
16:53:48 * gomix really wants to thank jsmith for his trust apointing me at the Board, my only word to the community is, ill serve Fedora the best way i know and accordingi my own rsources and please as a board member, talk to me, correct me, fight me if u think im wrong, even if i dont change my mind.. i appreciate your input
16:53:57 <gomix> and.. runs...
16:54:00 <abadger1999> :-)
16:54:04 <rdieter_work> gomix: for the win.
16:54:05 <inode0> don't assume a lack of interest from a lack of questions - perhaps your work is now clear to us
16:54:18 <jsmith> inode0: I'd never assume that :-)
16:54:34 * gomix waves all, good day
16:54:45 <jsmith> Thanks gomix :-)
16:55:00 * jds2001 gotta run too, lots of work to do :)
16:55:08 <jsmith> Thanks jds2001
16:55:14 <rdieter_work> jsmith: if there's nothing else, and we're bored, where did we leave off on all that governance talk/work/drafts from fudcon tempe?  (sorry if there's already a good answer to this for which I forgot)
16:55:47 <jsmith> rdieter_work: We left it at "If people want to continue discussing it and working on the drafts, all power to them!"
16:56:07 <rdieter_work> ok, where are said drafts?
16:56:21 <jsmith> I'm pretty sure we put them on the wiki
16:56:34 <rdieter_work> ok, I'll go wiki hunting, thanks.
16:57:02 <jsmith> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Possible_Future_of_Fedora_Governance
16:57:05 <jsmith> (as I recall)
16:58:13 <rdieter_work> thanks again
16:58:19 <jsmith> No worries...
16:59:01 <jsmith> Anything else?
16:59:08 * jsmith will close the meeting in one minute if there is nothing further
17:02:14 <jsmith> Thanks everyone for your participation and ideas
17:02:19 <jsmith> #endmeeting