18:30:05 <rbergeron> #startmeeting Fedora Board IRC Meeting
18:30:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 18:30:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:30:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:30:13 <rbergeron> #meetingname fedora_board
18:30:13 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_board'
18:30:30 <rbergeron> #chair jreznik ke4qqq pbrobinson abadger1999 gomix rudi jds2001 rdieter cwickert
18:30:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 cwickert gomix jds2001 jreznik ke4qqq pbrobinson rbergeron rdieter rudi
18:30:39 * jds2001 here
18:30:42 <rdieter> yo
18:30:44 * gomix here
18:30:44 * jreznik is ready
18:30:45 <rbergeron> #topic Roll call (for board members)
18:30:47 * cwickert is here but nor really
18:30:52 <cwickert> s/nor/not
18:30:53 * ke4qqq is here
18:31:01 <jreznik> cwickert is unreal
18:31:14 <jds2001> better than undead :D
18:31:18 <cwickert> jreznik: more like extremely busy
18:31:23 * abadger1999 here
18:31:39 <rbergeron> #info present: jds2001, rdieter, gomix, cwickert (but not really and we saw his regrets earlier), ke4qqq, yours truly, abadger1999
18:32:10 <rbergeron> so we're missing: rudi, pbrobinson? is that right? :)
18:32:44 * rbergeron sends cwickert hugs and vibes of rapid productivity
18:32:47 <rbergeron> #info present jreznik
18:32:55 <rbergeron> now it adds up.
18:33:09 <rbergeron> I believe that is a quorum, so, um, yes, I'll move right onwards.
18:33:15 <rbergeron> #topic Agenda
18:33:26 <rbergeron> #info First, General announcements
18:33:41 <rbergeron> #info Will cover tickets #130 (Board == Less of a SPOF), #131 (retire torrent seed), #132 (endorsement of http://github.com/fedoraproject)
18:33:49 <rbergeron> #info Then see where we are with trademark guidelines.
18:33:53 <rbergeron> #info Then open Q&A.
18:34:06 * rbergeron waits for someone to tell her she's missing anything for about 15 seconds before moving on
18:34:31 <abadger1999> Board member tasks
18:34:45 <rbergeron> #info Board Member Tasks.
18:34:52 <rbergeron> Just cover that we have received them?
18:35:14 * rbergeron sort of thought it might be nice to just have rotating updates on those every few weeks from various people, if they want, though blogging and writing is good. :)
18:35:27 <rbergeron> We'll cover it when we get there. And decide how to handle it :)
18:35:36 <rbergeron> Unless anyone wants to object now.
18:35:39 <abadger1999> <nod>  Maybe cover logistics of reporting today and then start reporting next week.
18:35:43 <rbergeron> sure.
18:35:56 <rbergeron> #topic General Announcements and the like
18:36:02 <rbergeron> #info Schedule Reminders: Alpha change deadline is next week on Valentine's Day/Singles Awareness Day (2/14 for those of you not into that type of thing), Alpha release on 2/28.
18:36:06 <rbergeron> #info FUDCons for EMEA, LATAM, APAC are waiting on various types of things (approvals, dates, etc). Bidding for US FUDCon will open ... when I get to it. :D
18:36:15 <rbergeron> Any other announcements?
18:36:51 <abadger1999> rbergeron is our new FPL.  Long live the FPL!
18:37:00 <rbergeron> Excellent. Tell me if I'm screwing this up. :)
18:37:09 <rbergeron> who? never heard of her. :)
18:37:17 <jds2001> no idea.
18:37:21 <jds2001> :D
18:37:31 <rbergeron> Sweet. Okay. Now comes the fun part.
18:37:33 * gomix lost in the dark
18:37:33 <rdieter> yay
18:37:47 <rbergeron> #topic Ticket 130: Make the Board less of a single point of failure
18:37:55 <rbergeron> #info present: rudi
18:37:59 <rbergeron> hi rudi :)
18:38:11 <rudi> Hi: Sorry I'm late! :)
18:38:12 <rbergeron> abadger1999: i gather that this is your ticket?
18:38:20 <rbergeron> rudi: no worries. just getting started :)
18:38:27 <abadger1999> Yep
18:38:39 <abadger1999> So all the information is on the public wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Toshio/sopa-post-mortem
18:38:39 <rbergeron> Did you want to take the mic for a moment here?
18:38:48 <rbergeron> #info all info is on the public wiki.
18:39:24 <abadger1999> There were a bunch of identified problems and potential solutions for each
18:39:32 <abadger1999> What do we want to do with them now?
18:39:47 <rbergeron> #info For those playing along at home, description of the ticket is basically "reflecting on problems encountered in implementing the sopa banner for the blackout day"
18:40:23 <ke4qqq> a lot of these are behavior issues rather than process issues I fear
18:40:31 <abadger1999> I'd be happy to take the next step in writing this into a policy, for isntance, if that's what we want to do with this list.
18:40:32 <rbergeron> I think there's a few things that strike me here in looking:
18:40:37 <abadger1999> But I'm not sure if that's what we want
18:40:37 <jreznik> it's not only sopa problem, but we saw similar issue with elections etc. - so it's more a topic of responsibility for a different areas
18:40:46 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:41:05 <rbergeron> Declaring better ownership in a more obvious way - and calling out decisions in a more obvious way.
18:41:15 <ke4qqq> jreznik: agreed - and who is responsible on the board - I mean technically the board as a whole, but thats fail IMO.
18:41:16 <jds2001> welll, we cant rewind the clock and do sopa over again, obviously.
18:41:21 <rbergeron> But at the end of the day, if the ball gets dropped, process out the ying-yang doesn't neessarily help.
18:41:29 <rbergeron> We're all a little team here.
18:41:31 <jds2001> but we can learn and be better
18:41:36 * rbergeron passes out marshmallows for the campfire
18:41:57 <jreznik> rbergeron: +1 for ownership
18:42:37 <rbergeron> I think generally (as a spectator of this) one thing to watch out for is knowing of time-impending things and not waiting until the last second.
18:42:45 <rbergeron> to notice that it's not quite done
18:42:52 <jds2001> rbergeron: +1, and process for process sake can get in the way of forward progress.
18:42:54 <rbergeron> (though iirc mizmo was a bit ahead of the game here by a few days)
18:43:00 <rbergeron> jds2001: yar.
18:43:11 <rbergeron> So, speaking of moving on: What do we want to do with this ticket?
18:43:48 <rbergeron> Make clearer decisions and always designate an owner for actions? (I think we do a reasonably good job on the latter, maybe not so much on the former)
18:44:00 <rbergeron> I see abadger1999 has solutions proposed here
18:44:09 * ke4qqq proposes that we have an owner for anything the board mandates others to do. and perhaps a second as well. just to serve as contact, person to unblock.
18:44:32 <ke4qqq> but he's write about clarity of intentions and verboseness of logs....
18:44:34 <jreznik> ke4qqq: yep, we are 9 board members - it can cover a lot of stuff
18:45:11 <rbergeron> a point of contact and communication for a task, whether done by the board or others?
18:45:13 <ke4qqq> and I am the guilty party wrt logs, it's one of the things we struggle with for phone and in-person meetings
18:45:25 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: yes, if it's something we mandated.
18:45:37 <rbergeron> which doesn't happen often. :)
18:45:56 * pbrobinson is here now
18:45:57 <rbergeron> okay, we're stretching time on this one here. Conclusions? :)
18:46:00 <jds2001> ke4qqq: yeah, they're too fast paced to effectively participate and log
18:46:14 <rbergeron> #info pbrobinson is here!
18:46:33 <jds2001> in the olden days, the board had a secretary (the fedora program manager)
18:46:38 <rbergeron> OH
18:46:41 * rbergeron looks at her
18:46:42 <rbergeron> oh wait
18:46:44 <jds2001> but it was unfair on that person
18:46:56 * jds2001 looks at poelcat :D
18:47:08 <jreznik> jds2001: why it was unfair?
18:47:16 <rbergeron> well, and that would require that the program manager be a board member
18:47:23 <rbergeron> which has not always been the case :)
18:47:23 <ke4qqq> jreznik: would you want to keep up with the things that we 9 said?
18:47:25 <jds2001> rbergeron: not really
18:47:34 <jds2001> rbergeron: just be invited to meetings
18:47:40 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: poelcat wasn't always a board member when he was secretary
18:47:40 <rbergeron> even private meetings?
18:47:45 <jds2001> yeah
18:47:51 <rbergeron> interesting
18:48:02 * Discordian thinks of what yes prime minister
18:48:27 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: he was sworn to secrecy and not permitted to partake in the board initiation rituals.
18:48:40 <rbergeron> I hadn't heard about board initiation rules.
18:48:41 <jreznik> what did the secratary do? more than minutes etc.? as we try to rotate secretary now, but it's all about meeting minutes only
18:48:45 <Discordian> Who records meetings effectively decides what is policy
18:49:00 <rdieter> abadger1999: I'm ok with your offer of codifying most of the post-mortem suggestions
18:49:05 <abadger1999> If we want to move on, I'll take an action item to write this up so that process changes (like definite ownership) can be voted on and behviour changes (like Board members objecting need to also propose solutions) are written as guidance for us to refer back to.
18:49:10 <jds2001> jreznik: just minutes. which is a big job
18:49:29 <ke4qqq> yeah - very big job- esp for voice/in-person meetings
18:49:33 <rbergeron> abadger1999: I think that sounds reasonable.
18:49:40 <gomix> abadger1999:  +1 to that...
18:50:07 <rudi> Thanks abadger1999
18:50:19 <jds2001> abadger1999: +1
18:50:19 <rbergeron> #action abadger1999 to write this up so process changes (like definite ownership) can be voted on and behaviour changes (like board members objecting need to propose solutions) are written as guidance for us to refer back to.
18:50:24 <rdieter> in my experience, being secreatary largely takes makes you an inactive/passive participant, unfortunately.
18:50:30 <rbergeron> abadger1999: 2 weeks?
18:50:41 <ke4qqq> rdieter: indeed, which is why a non-board member was ideal from a board member perspective
18:50:48 <rdieter> <nod>
18:51:05 <jreznik> rdieter: that's true, especially for me - it takes all my cpu during phone calls...
18:51:16 <abadger1999> rdieter: Sounds good.
18:51:21 <rbergeron> one more tab ;)
18:51:24 <abadger1999> rbergeron  I mean
18:51:25 <rbergeron> or one less tab :)
18:51:28 <abadger1999> :-)
18:51:48 <rbergeron> #action abadger1999 to be done with and revisit in 2 weeks (2/22).
18:51:49 <jreznik> also secratary should not be only about minutes, but we need someone to prepare agenda etc. (robyn did it today, but sometimes we suck there too)
18:51:58 <pingou> external secretary being an option to add to a list of item to vote/decide on
18:52:02 <rbergeron> Okay, next thing:
18:52:09 <rbergeron> #topic Ticket 131 (retire torrent seed?)
18:52:19 <rbergeron> So I think this is somewhat wrapped up?
18:52:21 * jds2001 thought we came to conclusion here
18:52:22 <pbrobinson> yes
18:52:30 <gomix> we did
18:52:45 <rbergeron> I saw in meeting logs that it would be communicated to infrastructure and i didn't see a mail on that list
18:52:49 <rbergeron> but it seems it was communicated
18:53:00 <rbergeron> (i couldn't really tell until like 2 hours ago when i became a board member and stuff)
18:53:16 <rbergeron> #info This ticket is wrapped up / completed. YAY PROGRESS.
18:53:17 <skvidal> rbergeron: it went through a ticket
18:53:23 <Discordian> Infra know abut it
18:53:29 <Discordian> about it
18:53:40 <nirik> I was hoping the Board could provide some ideas about when retiring might be an option? is there any numbers we should look for? or just revisit in a few releases?
18:53:41 <abadger1999> Talked to infra this week
18:53:51 <abadger1999> Yeah, what nirik said :-)
18:54:17 * skvidal would love to know those numbers too - if only so I can cook them down until I get them to the right place
18:54:22 <rbergeron> #info Nirik hoping that the board could provide ideas about when retiring might be an option, are there numberes to look for, or revisit in a few weeks?
18:54:27 <ke4qqq> skvidal: :)
18:54:31 <rbergeron> skvidal: :)
18:54:48 <jds2001> skvidal: just setup a fake tracker :D
18:54:51 * ke4qqq hates that we meddled here
18:55:00 <jreznik> nirik: revisit later? you will know if it's mainteinable, we would have some numbers (maybe?:)
18:55:03 <rbergeron> I think revisiting later is fine.
18:55:10 <skvidal> jds2001: la la la
18:55:12 <jreznik> and maybe torrents will be illegal that time :)
18:55:19 <jds2001> ke4qqq: we were specifically asked too :)
18:55:22 <nirik> well, I predict they will continue to decline in usage.
18:55:35 <jreznik> I suppose so
18:55:38 * gomix notes that mirrors for south-america are really bad option
18:55:40 <rbergeron> Are we kosher with revisiting post F17 release, maybe around the time we get to F18alpha?
18:55:42 <ke4qqq> jds2001: yes, but we should have declined and told infra they know best since they are doing the work IMO.
18:55:43 <nirik> but sure, we could look at numbers and ask folks again in a few releases.
18:56:14 <nirik> gomix: thats good to know too... so perhaps we could expand mirroring there...
18:56:35 * rbergeron seeks agreement to a proposal
18:56:47 <jds2001> nirik: similar concerns were expressed for Germany
18:56:50 <rdieter> rbergeron: revisit f18alpha
18:56:52 <rdieter> +1
18:56:54 <gomix> nirik: if so.. then i could consider not objecting retiring torrent service
18:57:19 <skvidal> gomix: I'm confused - if mirrors are a bad option
18:57:23 <pbrobinson> rbergeron: +1
18:57:28 <skvidal> then how come we don't see more downloads by torrent?
18:57:29 <jreznik> so the biggest issue is not torrent, but local mirrors?
18:57:32 <rbergeron> I think they're a bad option due to lack of mirrors
18:57:44 <rbergeron> at lesat that is the impression i just got
18:57:49 <skvidal> ok
18:57:49 <gomix> skvidal: well, i dont know, i dont have any numbers
18:57:54 <nirik> sure, also, I would urge everyone who uses torrents now, to look at trying to use our mirrors and provide feedback on where we could improve
18:58:06 <rbergeron> okay, i have two for revisiting.
18:58:07 <gomix> what i can tell is from my personnal experience using it
18:58:20 <nirik> our master dl.fedoraproject.org machines should do pretty well as a fallback for most anywhere.
18:58:22 <pingou> skvidal: do we have number mirror vs torrent per region ?
18:58:25 <rbergeron> #info nirik urges everyone using torrents now to examine usage of mirrors, and provide feedback on where to improve.
18:58:28 <pbrobinson> skvidal: there's a big shortage of mirrors in china for example
18:58:46 <skvidal> pbrobinson: so then given what I've seen, then
18:58:47 <skvidal> either:
18:58:48 * rbergeron wonders if perhaps someone might be interested in proposing "Mirrors improvement" somewhere as a topic.
18:58:52 <skvidal> 1. no one is downloading by torrents
18:58:53 <rbergeron> Blog post, etc.
18:58:56 <skvidal> 2. no one is downloading fedora at all
18:59:04 <rbergeron> And a spot for people to provide feedback on their usage / effectiveness.
18:59:13 <skvidal> b/c the torrents are a tiny amount of what gets downloaded vs the mirrors
18:59:20 <skvidal> and I'm only talking about OUR masters
18:59:23 <skvidal> not even the full set of mirrors
18:59:50 <rbergeron> (since we're halfway through a meeting that should have Q&A and we're still having a list of things to talk about)
18:59:53 <rdieter> true, we're going on largely subjective comments
18:59:56 <rbergeron> (:D)
19:00:11 <rbergeron> (Not that I like prodding)
19:00:16 * skvidal stops
19:00:35 <rbergeron> ;)
19:00:42 * ke4qqq doesn't think we even have anything to decide on this issue - lets leave it for now
19:00:51 * rdieter cheers on rbergeron cracking the whip
19:00:53 <rbergeron> Proposal was to revisit later at some point.
19:01:20 <rbergeron> Or we can just leave the ticket in there until infra wants to revisit.
19:01:41 <cwickert> nirik: speaking of the torrents. looks like we found a company that runs Fedora on their servers and that would like to help us. I'll put you in contact with them
19:01:49 <nirik> cwickert: great!
19:01:50 <rdieter> revisit , any time after f17 is fine.
19:02:17 <rudi> +1 to revisit after f17
19:02:28 <rbergeron> #agreed (more or less) to revisit at some point after F17.
19:02:37 <rbergeron> MOVING ONWARDS
19:02:37 <cwickert> +1 to revisit, work on solutions in the meantime
19:02:53 <rbergeron> #topic Ticket 132, endorsement of http://github.com/fedoraproject
19:02:56 <jreznik> cwickert: agree
19:03:26 <rbergeron> I SEEKETH FEEDBACK HERE.
19:03:41 <rbergeron> Since the mailing list thread is long and arduous.
19:03:53 <rbergeron> Do we want to keep discussing there, and see if we can come to a conclusion?
19:04:18 * rbergeron would need a volunteer to conclusion-drive.
19:04:21 * ke4qqq hasn't been personally convinced that this is worth granting trademark blessing for.
19:04:45 * ke4qqq suggests we invite the folks asking to attend our next IRC meeting to justify.
19:04:49 * jds2001 questions the value of doing anything *at all*, tradermark or no.
19:04:55 <ke4qqq> jds2001: +1
19:04:57 * cwickert is not convinced either
19:05:04 * pbrobinson isn't convinced it's worth us endorsing at all
19:05:05 * pingou doesn't like the idea of granting the trademark to a non-Free (as in FLOSS) plateform while there are Free one (as in FLOSS)
19:05:19 * gomix still does not see a point there
19:05:24 * ke4qqq is happy to just vote down the ticket too, and happy to do that now.
19:05:25 <rbergeron> Well, do we need to be convinced?
19:05:27 <rbergeron> Or can we just say no?
19:05:34 <pingou> option b :)
19:05:35 <rbergeron> I think that seems reasonable now.
19:05:55 <cwickert> propsal: invite the people to our meeting and give them a chance to explain their view. if we are still not convinced, we screw it
19:06:19 <rbergeron> 15 minute topic in next meeting? Does that seem reasonable?
19:06:20 <cwickert> or just take the shortcut and screw it now?
19:06:30 <rdieter> I'm happy they took our suggestion to limit scope, and +1 to endorse and grant trademark usage personally
19:06:42 <rdieter> but I may be in the minority
19:07:45 * jds2001 is happy they decided to limit scope, but still dont see value in it.
19:07:55 <jreznik> I don't see a reason why to connect it directly with Fedora, seems like upstream project, not only aiming Fedora...
19:07:56 <gomix> rdieter true, but they dont need an endorsement
19:08:08 * ke4qqq doesn't either- fedora is about people doing things, not using the fedora name as a bully pulpit to help get things done.
19:08:08 * jds2001 is wondering what fedora-jboss-as gives that jds2001 does not
19:08:33 <rbergeron> advertising value? the implication of it being kosher? :)
19:08:43 * rbergeron is just speculating
19:08:47 <rdieter> rbergeron: largely, yes.
19:09:02 * rbergeron sets a timer on this one
19:09:04 * ke4qqq thinks that using one's fp.o email would garner the same effect
19:09:12 <rdieter> I guess spot did clarify trademark is not required in this case
19:09:24 <rbergeron> proposals are (a) invite, discuss, vote (b) vote now
19:09:33 * abadger1999 is fine with the github project existing and that they use the name "fedora".
19:09:34 <rdieter> b
19:09:54 <rbergeron> if trademark isn't required then, um....
19:10:01 <abadger1999> beyond that, what are we really giving them?, that's kinda what I don't know...
19:10:04 <rbergeron> is this a feel-good exercise?
19:10:29 <rdieter> ok, what they really wanted was the ability to remove the disclaimier from the github site.
19:10:43 <rdieter> seems like that can do that now without any intervention from us now, right?
19:10:51 <rbergeron> It seems that way.
19:10:56 <abadger1999> From spot's reply on the ticket, it sounds like that's feasible now.
19:10:58 <rdieter> If so, we can consider them "endorsed" and close the matter
19:10:59 <gomix> + rdieter
19:11:03 <abadger1999> <nod>
19:11:06 <rbergeron> yes
19:11:09 <gomix> jeje
19:11:17 <ke4qqq> NOTABUG?
19:11:18 <spot> well, to be clear
19:11:23 <rbergeron> HI WH
19:11:23 <spot> if i may.
19:11:26 <rbergeron> #chair spot
19:11:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 cwickert gomix jds2001 jreznik ke4qqq pbrobinson rbergeron rdieter rudi spot
19:11:30 <rdieter> oh noes. :)
19:11:34 <jreznik> spot: go on
19:11:40 <spot> as is, they are not using the trademark in any way that concerns us
19:11:51 <spot> they are explicitly disclaiming a relationship
19:12:17 <spot> if we were to give them permission to use it, they could start doing so
19:12:21 <pbrobinson> It's my understanding they want to remove that disclaimer though
19:12:24 <jds2001> if they were to remove that, they would then need a license?
19:12:26 <spot> but they do not need permission to do what they're doing now
19:12:37 <spot> jds2001: exactly
19:13:09 <spot> (technically, we could tell them to stop what they're doing if we really wanted to be dicks, but i'm assuming we're not)
19:13:16 <rbergeron> so they're requesting permission for something they dont' need permission for, is that correct?
19:13:26 <rbergeron> or are they requesting permission above and beyond
19:13:36 <spot> my understanding was that they wanted to be considered official and drop the disclaimer
19:13:40 * rbergeron is all for not being dicks
19:13:41 <jds2001> no, they're requesting permission to remove the disclaimer iiuc
19:13:41 <spot> that requires board approval.
19:13:58 <spot> because then they would need permission to use the tms
19:14:01 <pbrobinson> rbergeron my understanding is the reason they were asking for permission was because they wanted to remove the disclaimer
19:14:11 <rdieter> spot: thanks.
19:14:19 <rbergeron> spot: thank you, welcome home!
19:14:27 * jds2001 has no issue with not getting in the way of people trying to do cool things.
19:14:43 <rbergeron> okay, seeking a final proposal made rapidly so we can move on
19:14:53 <jds2001> and i dont think granting this has any possibility of diluting the brand
19:14:55 <abadger1999> I have no problem with them being able to use the trademark for what they're doing.  The definitions of official", "affiliated with", and "endorsed by" are the places where I get stuck.
19:15:12 <abadger1999> If we don't need any of those latter three, then I'd have no problem.
19:15:12 <rdieter> So, board approval *is* required to remove the disclaimer.  I propose we vote on granting such approval
19:15:35 <ke4qqq> rdieter: agreed, lets vote and get this over with and move on - now 45 minutes in
19:15:38 <gomix> rdieter: as they keep doing what they do now
19:15:41 <spot> abadger1999: the board would be giving permission to the individuals using that account to also use the Fedora trademarks on that website
19:16:00 <pingou> Fedora official projects on a non-Free plateform :/
19:16:03 <spot> above and beyond that, if the board wants to call that something specific, so be it.
19:16:29 <rbergeron> OR I will propose that we have a proposal in the ticket nand vote there.
19:16:32 <spot> i would recommend that the board figure out what they are comfortable having them say there. :)
19:16:46 <jds2001> pingou: nothing says that what we grant tm approval for needs to be on a free platform
19:16:53 <jds2001> we have no way to police that
19:17:06 <jds2001> (nor should we, IMO)
19:17:20 <pingou> jds2001: I know, but since the question is brought here it should be consider imho
19:17:22 <rdieter> jds2001: I've a feeling some board members may vote against because of that though (and I wouldn't blame them)
19:17:22 <abadger1999> Proposal: The Board grants https://github.com/fedora-jboss-as permission to use the Fedora trademarks on that website for the purpose of getting JBoss-AS packaged for Fedora.
19:17:33 <Discordian> other than that we support free platforms
19:17:38 <rdieter> abadger1999: even better, +1
19:17:53 <gomix> abadger1999: that express my feeling ...
19:17:55 <rbergeron> THANK YOU!
19:18:03 * abadger1999 notes that seems to follow the original IRC discussion... If they want to expand it to Upstream Jboss-Fedora Collaboration, we can revisit at a later time.
19:18:30 <abadger1999> +1 to my proposal
19:18:37 <jreznik> +1 to abadger1999's proposal
19:18:38 <gomix> <nod>
19:18:47 <pbrobinson> +1-> works for me
19:18:48 <gomix> +1
19:18:57 <rudi> +1
19:18:59 <ke4qqq> -1 , still don't like using fedora as the bully pulpit
19:19:18 <pingou> 6:+1 - 1:-1
19:19:29 <jds2001> +1
19:19:31 * gomix wonders i we will ceros today ?
19:19:44 <rbergeron> +1 (though it makes little to no sense to me)
19:20:08 <rbergeron> can someone follow up on it with the requestor?
19:20:37 <rdieter> rbergeron: I can
19:20:50 * jds2001 just voted affirmatively as not to get in the way, and the usage didn't seem foul to me. I still thinks it makes no sense, but hey, they can do what they want :)
19:20:53 <abadger1999> rdieter: Thanks
19:20:55 <rbergeron> #agreed 8 in favor, 1 not in favor, The Board grants https://github.com/fedora-jboss-as permission to use the Fedora trademarks on that website for hte purpose of getting JBoss-AS packaged for Fedora
19:21:02 <rdieter> spot: is any paperwork required?
19:21:23 <spot> rdieter: no, as long as it is indicated in trac
19:21:27 <rdieter> ok
19:21:29 <rdieter> yay
19:21:44 <rbergeron> #action rdieter to take the action on following up with the requestor. no paperwork is required (so long as it is indicated in trac).
19:21:53 <rbergeron> thank you.
19:22:00 <rbergeron> #topic Trademark Guidelines
19:22:11 * ianweller pays attention
19:22:23 <rbergeron> aren't you in class?
19:22:30 <rbergeron> :D
19:22:32 <ianweller> theoretically yes :)
19:23:18 <rbergeron> So, um, I wasn't around in the phone meeting last time
19:23:21 <rbergeron> where this was discussed
19:23:37 * jds2001 likes the TM guidelines. I still have concerns about the verbage:
19:23:40 <jds2001> any required or customary modifications to Fedora software that allow the virtual image or appliance distribution to operate in its intended environment are permitted as long as additional code used for any modifications is made available under one of the licenses listed at Good Licenses;
19:24:01 <rbergeron> So I guess the question is, are we okay with them as-is, or not
19:24:04 <jds2001> rbergeron: we discussed it a little in the phone meeting
19:24:13 <rbergeron> jds2001: i see that in the meeting notes
19:24:17 <ianweller> jds2001: can you suggest an alternative to that verbage?
19:24:22 <rbergeron> ** Need more time to digest the changes and read the specifics
19:24:34 * rbergeron isn't sure how much time, if there is a deadline for yay/nay, etc
19:24:45 <jsmith> rbergeron: I asked the Board members to read through the language and come prepared to discuss things they weren't comfortable with
19:25:02 <jsmith> rbergeron: No real deadline that I'm aware of
19:25:13 * ke4qqq proposes that since this is a legal topic we invite spot to the next phone meeting and dedicate it largely to that topic - with only 6 minutes left in the meeting don't think we can cover it adequately.
19:25:27 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: i can go with that.
19:25:27 <jds2001> ianweller: im concerned about kernel instability introduced as a result of using a custom kernel.
19:25:45 <gomix> ke4qqq: + to that
19:25:51 * rdieter is happy with the new tm guidelines, nice work.
19:25:54 <jds2001> ke4qqq: +1
19:26:03 <jreznik> ke4qqq: +1
19:26:03 * abadger1999 happy with new guidelines as well
19:26:18 <jds2001> like jsmith said in the phone meeting, make sure you read and are familiar by next week  :D
19:26:31 <jds2001> (and if you've already done that, great!)
19:26:31 <rbergeron> #agreed invite spot to next phone meeting and dedicate it largely to TM guidelines topic.
19:26:57 <rbergeron> #action all y'all to read and be familiar by next week. BRING YOUR QUESTIONS.
19:27:02 <rbergeron> Okay.
19:27:07 * gomix happy with the new tm as well
19:27:10 <rbergeron> Open floor, or cover board member tasks?
19:27:16 <jds2001> all y'all???? :D
19:27:19 * rbergeron doesn't like this whole 3 minutes of open floor
19:27:22 <pbrobinson> open floor
19:27:25 <rbergeron> jds2001: hey now :)
19:27:25 <ke4qqq> open floor
19:27:30 <rbergeron> #topic Open Floor
19:28:53 <pbrobinson> don't all rush at once :-)
19:29:16 <rbergeron> LOL
19:30:33 <rbergeron> So i guess I'll just say: I'll send out info for dialin for the next board meeting by the end of the week.
19:30:59 <abadger1999> If no one else has a question, I'll ask one of rbergeron.
19:31:04 <jsmith> Note -- it'll probably be a different conference code than before
19:31:06 <rbergeron> UH OH
19:31:33 * rbergeron yields the floor to abadger1999
19:31:48 <abadger1999> rbergeron: As you assume the role of FPL, what's happening with the other roles that you filled in Fedora?
19:32:14 <rbergeron> Oh, I ordered some clones. They'll be here soon enough.
19:32:15 <rbergeron> Errr.
19:32:43 <rbergeron> So, I will be working with my excellent boss to come up with some transition plans and requisition type stuff to fill my old job.
19:32:58 <rbergeron> Since that' snot just Fedora stuff, that was also program manager for other things around RHT.
19:33:16 <abadger1999> <nod>
19:33:19 <rbergeron> As for Fedora things I've been doing:
19:33:43 <rbergeron> WRT Cloud SIG - I can't promise I'll drop that on the floor, but to be honest, my involvement there is rather minimal aside from running a meeting and being cheerleader.
19:34:06 <rbergeron> WRT Program manager stuff: I will be attempting to do that as well for a wihle until that gets filled.
19:34:21 <rbergeron> I'll keep people apprised of what is going on there.
19:34:30 <rbergeron> Um.
19:34:52 <abadger1999> Cool.
19:35:06 <rbergeron> Basically a lot of what I need to do is share load a bit with others, find people to step up and own things, etc.
19:35:30 <rbergeron> Though the ownership thing I think rings true everywhere - it's always a good idea to have people stepping up and owning things, becoming leaders in their own right.
19:35:44 * inode0 wonders if this is supposed to be the public Q&A part of this meeting or if that comes even later?
19:36:02 <jds2001> inode0: go ahead :)
19:36:10 <rbergeron> inode0: we waited around and nobody said anything :)
19:36:13 <pbrobinson> rbergeron: so the intention is for Red Hat to replace the head count though?
19:36:29 <inode0> topic is open floor - I don't know what that means exactly
19:36:56 <pbrobinson> inode0: it means that if you wish to ask a question to the board you may
19:37:01 * gomix needs to go in short
19:37:10 <rbergeron> Ah. In most meetings it usually means "Anyone can talk and bring up whatever" - at least in cloud meeting, i think docs does it as well.
19:37:21 <inode0> 1 - back to rbergeron's last point, I have volunteered once again to be the election coordinator this cycle so she has more room on her plate for hot dogs
19:37:26 <Discordian> It does mean that here
19:37:30 * rbergeron would be happy to refer to it as open Q & A in the future
19:37:52 <rbergeron> inode0: thank you :D
19:38:09 <rbergeron> #info thank you to inode0 for volunteering again to be election coordinator
19:38:12 * gomix confused cz with auto-qa
19:38:14 * stickster shows up late, just off phone...
19:38:19 <inode0> 2 - please have Q&A at the start of the meetings, there usually aren't any but when there are and they occur this late it doesn't work for anyone
19:38:27 <rbergeron> inode0: i tend to agree
19:38:31 <ke4qqq> inode0: +1
19:38:36 <jds2001> inode0: +1
19:38:39 <rbergeron> Is everyone okay with that for next time?
19:38:42 <gomix> inode0: +1
19:39:00 <rudi> +1
19:39:13 <rbergeron> #agreed have Q&A at start of meeting, rather than end of meeting, in future
19:39:24 * rbergeron counts 5 there :)
19:39:27 <rbergeron> (including herself)
19:39:32 <rbergeron> (notto jump the gun)
19:39:40 <abadger1999> +1
19:39:44 <pbrobinson> +1
19:40:01 <rbergeron> inode0: thanks for the suggestion.
19:40:12 <rbergeron> (though lord knows I've seen it said before.)
19:40:21 <stickster> rbergeron: I liked what you said about ownership of groups/initiatives. I think it's natural for the FPL to own a couple pet projects, at least until additional leaders identify themselves, take the mantle, etc.
19:41:10 * gomix must say good bye....
19:41:15 <rbergeron> gomix: thanks for coming.
19:41:36 * rbergeron is on a short-ish fuse as well, about 15 minutes until I have to go to another meeting.
19:42:01 <rbergeron> stickster: thanks. I probably learned that from you, or mel, or max :)
19:42:28 * ke4qqq sugguests that we end the meeting unless someone else has something
19:42:36 <jreznik> yep
19:42:39 <ke4qqq> suggests even
19:42:47 * stickster has nothing, but wants to say congrats to rbergeron and thanks to jsmith if it wasn't said before
19:42:59 <jsmith> Thanks stickster
19:43:02 * rbergeron has a bucket!
19:43:03 <rbergeron> oh wait
19:43:04 <stickster> FPL: The Hardest Job You'll Ever Love (sorry, US Army)
19:43:13 <rbergeron> LOL
19:43:26 <jsmith> stickster: OORAH!
19:43:36 <rbergeron> Anyone else?
19:43:46 * rbergeron lights that fuse and throws a jetpack at ianweller for old time's sake
19:43:51 <rbergeron> times'
19:44:08 * rbergeron counts backwards from 87
19:44:14 <rbergeron> 35
19:44:15 <rbergeron> 22
19:44:21 <rbergeron> 5
19:44:21 <rbergeron> 4
19:44:22 <rbergeron> 3
19:44:24 <suehle> 37
19:44:27 <rbergeron> 2
19:44:27 <rbergeron> HEY
19:44:28 <rbergeron> 1
19:44:39 <rbergeron> ... thanks for coming, everyone.
19:44:42 <suehle> HEY does not come before 1. Where did you learn to count?
19:44:54 <rbergeron> The funny farm.
19:44:57 <rbergeron> #endmeeting