18:00:49 <rbergeron> #startmeeting Fedora Board
18:00:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 18 18:00:49 2013 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:55 <rbergeron> #meetingname Fedora Board
18:00:55 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_board'
18:01:02 <pbrobinson> /me is here
18:01:12 <Sparks> rbergeron: I was just getting ready to start the meeting for you.
18:01:17 * mhayden stumbles in
18:01:27 <misc> hi
18:01:49 <rbergeron> oh. sparks: that's because you are kind
18:01:57 <Sparks> rbergeron: I try
18:02:03 <rbergeron> #chair sparks misc pbrobinson mhayden
18:02:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: mhayden misc pbrobinson rbergeron sparks
18:02:18 <rbergeron> mhayden: wtf is with your name
18:02:32 <mhayden> rbergeron: it's the one my mom gave me
18:02:47 * jreznik is around... hope to finish go/no-go today, sorry, soon
18:02:48 <misc> your mhayden name ?
18:02:50 <rbergeron> yeah, my mom named me rbergeron
18:03:02 <mhayden> rbergeron: hah, long story about the reason for the change
18:03:13 <rbergeron> misc: as opposed to his "maiden name" :)
18:03:19 <rbergeron> mhayden: it's all good
18:03:45 <pbrobinson> so do we have an agenda for today?
18:04:07 <rbergeron> jreznik: yes, ping me here I guess if you need my opinion, phone doesn't always pick up the window ping color changes (but pretty sure you guys are kosher for the moment)
18:04:20 <Sparks> pbrobinson: Don't we just make this stuff up as we go along?
18:04:27 <rbergeron> pbrobinson: No, unless we want to discuss that i'm full of fail and fail internet this week.
18:04:34 <pbrobinson> or is rbergeron just going to tell us about fudcon/flock/docon and explain why it's all been so under cover and the dates are so very fucked up
18:04:44 * j_dulaney waves
18:04:53 * Sparks would like to discuss the Flock
18:05:04 <mhayden> so there's FUD spreading about fudcon?
18:05:14 <pbrobinson> on the fudcon mailing list
18:05:15 * inode0 notes there is a flock meeting right after this one in fedora-meeting-2
18:05:15 <rbergeron> bonjour j_dulaney
18:05:55 <rbergeron> sure, we can discuss, though I have been scarcely able to read the emails from my location this week, but sure.
18:05:59 <rbergeron> or we can go with inode0's suggestion.
18:06:14 <Sparks> No, this needs to be discussed here.
18:06:20 <j_dulaney> rberbergeron:  Ca va?
18:06:32 <pbrobinson> yea, I believe it's a board topic
18:06:33 <rbergeron> I got a "you might want to read that later so you aren't exploding"
18:06:42 <rbergeron> #topic flock
18:06:42 <inode0> I was just pointing out there is a flock meeting right after this one - not trying to avoid discussing it here.
18:06:48 <rbergeron> inode0: ack
18:06:49 <misc> Sparks: so any point to start, or some topic list on what to discuss ?
18:07:02 <rbergeron> are all the board folks chaired?
18:07:04 <rbergeron> #chair inode0
18:07:04 <zodbot> Current chairs: inode0 mhayden misc pbrobinson rbergeron sparks
18:07:34 <rbergeron> sparks: do you want to give hte quick synopsis
18:07:35 <jreznik> not me
18:07:41 <Sparks> rbergeron: I will
18:07:51 <rbergeron> #chair jreznik
18:07:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: inode0 jreznik mhayden misc pbrobinson rbergeron sparks
18:08:16 <rdieter> eep, hi all
18:08:24 <rbergeron> #chair rdieter
18:08:24 <zodbot> Current chairs: inode0 jreznik mhayden misc pbrobinson rbergeron rdieter sparks
18:08:30 <Sparks> I am shocked and dismayed that three people sat around a Google Doc and made decisions about the annual event instead of following procedure and bringing it before the community.
18:08:49 <j_dulaney> +1
18:08:59 <Sparks> This would seem to be the exact opposite of everything that Fedora stands for.
18:09:12 <rbergeron> sparks: while i am happy for you to have your opinion i thought it would be good to give the synopsis of the situation first for those in the stands or reading logs
18:09:15 <rbergeron> :D
18:09:16 <mhayden> is there a link to a relevant email thread on this? i missed it
18:09:23 <rbergeron> (like mhayden for example)
18:09:28 <mizmo> mhayden, its on the fudcon-planning list
18:09:30 <Sparks> rbergeron: oh
18:09:31 <Sparks> sorry
18:09:34 * mhayden hides in the corner again
18:09:39 <pbrobinson> I agree the last I remember hearing anything official was the original proposal bought up back in last August or there about
18:09:41 * Sparks tries again
18:09:43 <rbergeron> 'tis all good
18:09:55 * j_dulaney first heard about it Tuesday night
18:10:03 <mizmo> mhayden, http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2013-April/004420.html
18:10:05 <misc> so http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2013-April/004420.html
18:10:08 <pbrobinson> #info thread here http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2013-April/004419.html
18:10:21 * mhayden reviews
18:10:21 <Sparks> So an announcement was made on the FUDCon Planning list that this year's FUDCon was going to be this August and would take the place of both the NA and EMEA FUDCon.
18:10:40 <gholms> Sorry, guys.  $dayjob.  :(
18:10:58 <Sparks> The announcement was made based on decisions that were not made public prior to the announcement.
18:11:42 <j_dulaney> +1
18:11:47 <Sparks> <insert earlier comment here>
18:11:59 <tatica> is EMEA people happy with this decision to not have a FUDcon there too?
18:12:06 <j_dulaney> I note, also, how it says the travel budget will be limited
18:12:13 <pbrobinson> Sparks: it was a proposal, it was never guaranteed it was going to happen
18:12:30 <Sparks> pbrobinson: It was not a proposal from what I read.
18:12:39 <j_dulaney> It's within driving distance of me, only about 3-4 hours
18:12:40 <misc> tatica: I cannot speak for the whole emea, but I am ok personnally ( but because we have devconf and lots of event in my country )
18:12:42 <gholms> The mail sure didn't sound like a proposal.
18:12:48 <j_dulaney> BUT, that is not true for many
18:12:52 <pbrobinson> it had to go through budget and a whole other group of stuff and my understanding from my memory was that it would then come back to the board
18:12:53 <Sparks> pbrobinson: It was a decision based on conversations I had with the decision makers afterwards.
18:13:17 <mhayden> gholms: agreed, the email came off as a done deal
18:13:35 <Sparks> pbrobinson: The fact that a Board member had to ask about what was going on leads me to believe that the Board wasn't in on the discussion.  I certainly was not.
18:13:51 <gholms> Yep.  First I've heard of it.
18:13:53 <mizmo> rbergeron, can you provide more color on this
18:14:07 <Sparks> tatica: I haven't heard any feedback from EMEA yet.
18:14:10 * rdieter waits patiently for color too
18:14:19 <inode0> I asked because there were comments made about it in FAmSCo meetings regarding it without much detail.
18:14:22 <misc> pbrobinson: well, reading the mail, spot say that a web application is being built, so that's understandable to feel that a done deal
18:14:34 <mizmo> Sparks, has a link to the google doc been posted anywhere?
18:14:42 <Sparks> mizmo: Not that I'm aware.
18:15:07 <pbrobinson> misc: the web application was used for FUDCon NA in Jan.... a web app does not make it an approval of a conference change
18:15:10 <mizmo> misc, to be fair, its a preexisting web app that ian built for fudcon that luke is expanding, it seems like it'd be useful however the next conference went
18:15:15 <j_dulaney> I wonder how we're going to be able to get EMEA folks here on such short notice
18:15:26 <rbergeron> reading up. i had to move because outside == dripping, had to find area to type with connection that reaches the sky but isn't outside
18:15:38 <misc> mizmo: oh, of course, i just try to explain why we think that's a done deal
18:15:44 <Sparks> rbergeron: Good luck with that.
18:15:44 <mizmo> 4 months isn't short notice in terms of flight costs across the atlantic
18:15:57 <inode0> The FAQ did say three people would be making the decisions, funding, talks, etc.
18:16:02 <j_dulaney> It is if you may need to get passport and the like
18:16:03 <Sparks> mizmo: 4 months *is* short notice for the summer time.
18:16:20 * j_dulaney doesn't know how it works for Europe, but in US it takes close to six months
18:16:21 <mizmo> j_dulaney, im not aware of many fedora ambassadors in EMEA who don't have a passport
18:16:30 <pbrobinson> the dates are truly terrible. It says it's a week long conference yet it's split over 2 weeks and that doesn't take into account travel either side
18:16:40 <tatica> you need to take the preparing time from those 4 months, so at the end, is less than 4 months :/
18:16:42 <mizmo> Sparks, that's fair enough but that's no matter where you live in the northern hemisphere :)
18:16:47 <pbrobinson> I'm a redhatter and I'm going to be pushing shit up hill to get that authorised
18:16:57 <tatica> mizmo, a lot of emea people doesn't have passport, they don't need one there
18:17:07 <tatica> almost all germany people doesn't own one
18:17:14 <Sparks> mizmo: True.  People generally know about FUDCons >6months out, I thought.
18:17:15 <misc> well, it take 2 weeks to have a passport in France
18:17:23 <jreznik> rbergeron: may I ask for go/no-go as fpl? ;-)
18:17:24 <mjg59> It seems a little odd to be more concerned about colliding with OSCON (a conference that doesn't really have much overlap with existing Fedora users) than GUADEC (which represents our default desktop)
18:17:32 <pbrobinson> tatica: bull shit, all europeans I know have passports, and depending on where you are in the EU you still need one
18:17:39 <mizmo> tatica, that's not true at all
18:17:54 <mizmo> tatica, certainly a german can't enter ireland without a passport. they would stand in the EU line, but they still need a passport
18:17:57 <tatica> pbrobinson, ouch, sorry :/ no need to insult :/
18:18:03 * rbergeron will opinion in go/no-go and then will elaborate
18:18:10 * rdieter wonders if there's anything constructive to do here.  second-guessing stuff definitely isn't
18:18:12 <pbrobinson> tatica: a lot don't travel with passports as they use their ID cards but you need a passport to get an ID card
18:18:16 <misc> anyway, so the first concern is "too short notice"
18:18:23 * DiscordianUK is eu and doesn't have one
18:18:35 <Sparks> Okay, everyone stop talking about passports and such.
18:18:37 <rdieter> the board isn't in the business of planning events/fudcons
18:18:39 <misc> due to price, and visa/passport concern for some count
18:18:40 * inode0 agrees with mjg59 but doubts that was a major consideration except that $committee will be attending OSCON
18:18:42 <misc> country
18:18:45 <rbergeron> okay, can we put aside the passport thing a moment
18:19:05 <rbergeron> I think the logistics of that shit is useless as a discussion if people are imploding over the event handling itself
18:19:07 <mizmo> mjg59, to be fair how many members of the desktop team have attended the past 3 fudcons?
18:19:13 <mizmo> mjg59, in tempe i think there were 2
18:19:22 <Sparks> I would just like to know why we aren't including the community in community decisions like we have in the past.
18:19:44 <j_dulaney> +1 to Sparks
18:19:48 * gholms agrees with rbergeron
18:19:51 <pbrobinson> mizmo: quite a few at FUDCon NA the 3 that I've attended
18:19:52 <rbergeron> and I will talk if folks want to listen and not scream, because i can only type so fast, and need to answer the big picture before i get thrown 400 "but what about X" things.
18:20:15 * j_dulaney shuts up
18:20:16 * rdieter is willing to cut some slack given this is the first time trying something "different", let's give rbergeron a change to explain the situation. *breathe*
18:20:16 <rbergeron> (or you can scream, but give me a second here)
18:20:19 <misc> Sparks: spot said http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2013-April/004425.html
18:20:22 <mjg59> mizmo: Did they feel that the fudcon format permitted useful discussion?
18:20:26 <mizmo> pbrobinson, since tempe? there was a large presence in toronto and that was the last one i saw such a presence at
18:20:54 <pbrobinson> mizmo: there was some in blackburg from memory
18:20:56 <Sparks> misc: Which is no excuse for going around the community.
18:20:57 <mizmo> mjg59, if they dont like the format they're not going to show up
18:21:16 <mizmo> pbrobinson, i think cwalters might have been the only one in blacksburg
18:21:17 <misc> Sparks: sure, just mentionning the answer so everybody can follow
18:21:22 * rbergeron clears throat
18:21:22 <Sparks> misc: Ya
18:21:35 <mjg59> mizmo: Well, right. The question is whether it's because people were uninterested in fudcon as a fedora event, or uninterested in fudcon as a barcamp-style event
18:21:45 <misc> Sparks: but the question is more "ok, there is a problem, what to do to now ?"
18:22:05 * jsmith recommends we let rbergeron get a word or two in
18:22:07 <Sparks> misc: I'm holding my tongue on that one for now.
18:22:08 <mjg59> mizmo: flock's format change would potentially influence that
18:22:32 <rbergeron> so #1: Robyn apologizes for sucking. and i say that in as humble of a way as possible, because I try to abide by the gregdek rule of "it's okay for the community to be disappointed, but never okay to be surprised"
18:22:34 <mizmo> pbrobinson, not a single desktop person in the list of ~190 people from blacksburg https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Archive:FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012?rd=FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012#Pre-registration
18:22:56 <rbergeron> (can we put the format discussion on hold, because right now the issue is community involvement in planning, not "what the hell gets planned or what the format is")
18:23:05 <rbergeron> (just a moment anyway)
18:24:29 <rbergeron> #2: I blogged about this last year, I begged for a reasonable amount of money for this all year, it is significantly less than I hoped, but more importantly, the notification of "we has the moneys, even in a small amount" came, well, far later than I would wish for.
18:24:45 <rbergeron> that said:
18:25:47 <rbergeron> given what was allocated, yes, there were discussion around "does this amount make sense, can we get a good facility and still get poeple here to make it truly worldwide.
18:26:27 <rbergeron> did i talk to spot and ruth? yes. we went through some various ideas so there would be a proposal, and honestly, i wish this had come out more in that fashion.
18:27:19 <rbergeron> i think that with a proposal that at least we let someone *employed* take the handling of the event - because it is on a much larger scale - because, honestly, it sucks to arrange a fudcon - it is qiute literally a burnout task for many folks
18:27:52 <rbergeron> and with far many more folks, needs, length, etc, it just needs a bit more attention. particularly if we ar econsidering changing the format, as i originally proposed.
18:28:36 <rbergeron> the thing I originally talked about last year was a "planning point" to talk about the future, upcoming release, becuase as it stands, with the january timing, we're typically (not this year, heh) in or almost at feature submission deadlines, etc.
18:29:03 <rbergeron> so in this case: yeah, july/august makes sense, much as it sucks, to achieve those ends.
18:29:26 <jreznik> same with flock, but it would be really hard to plan fudcons/flock based on how lucky we are with releases...
18:29:52 <rbergeron> Did i want this to come off this way? No. While bantering ideas about - there were MANY - some rather grand-scale things were brought up - mostly as a "what will make tihs attractive for sponsors (given the money situation)", etc - but
18:30:10 <rbergeron> (and not trying to do under-bus-throwing here)
18:32:04 <rbergeron> - i told spot on the phone that (a) I don't think we have the credibility to bring rockstar folks in to keynote, (b) format changes need to be discussed in teh community, (c) fudcons have been community-run, and you can't just take that back, but the discussion can be had about having "the hired help" be more central to the planning.
18:32:34 <spot> ow! that bus is heavy! ;)
18:33:05 * jreznik is ok with hired help, big events are not a fun at all, I saw sesivany organizing devconf
18:33:16 <pbrobinson> I have no problem with the hired help being central to the planning but it seems there's been some form of comms breakdown or people have stepped over the mark
18:33:25 <rbergeron> I had a lead on a really, really nice place for an event, which woul dhave been free, sponsored by a company, with catering, but they were unable to accomodate a weekend. I tried getting in contact with another person, that failed, my impression was that spot was going to take "proposal/suggestion" forward, not giant announcement this is how it's going to be now, and if he has sent me something otherwise, i haven't seen it, because i am in a shit
18:33:35 <rbergeron> ugh, where did that cut off.
18:33:40 <Sparks> shit
18:33:49 <rbergeron> shitty marriott.
18:33:55 <rbergeron> and the portland convention center.
18:34:28 * Sparks notes to bring his own Internetz when visiting Portland
18:34:41 * spot will take the blame for not bringing in the wider community sooner. I was in "get this done in time" mode. From here on out, everything happens openly.
18:34:55 <rbergeron> so yes, breakdown in communication. I think - much as i loathe to say this - I think it's reasonable for some leadership to come at elast with a *proposal* for people to throw rocks at, otherwise we wind up being mired in indecision for some time.
18:34:57 <spot> Doesn't change that we have very little time to do this, but still.
18:35:19 <rbergeron> did i think that if we magically unveiled shit that it would be, well, like tihs? hell yes.
18:35:57 * jreznik understands the reasons behind being in hurry and preparing something, but a note should made public earlier, with "guys, we know it's too late but we set potentially setup a nice event, details, any other ideas" and I think everyone would understand it (not saying 100% ok, but that's the life)
18:35:57 <suehle> And it wasn't a grand announcement either. It wasn't even a proposal since there's still not much to propose.
18:36:43 <inode0> It was a post to a planning list in response to a question
18:36:57 <misc> well, so would asking to the community if the proposla is ok and potentially cancelling if not be a idea to have it more legitimate ?
18:36:59 <rbergeron> so: rock-throwing, commence. peter: you seem pissed, so go for it.
18:37:16 <pbrobinson> and I found out about it because I had 10 people asking me my opinion of it
18:37:27 <pbrobinson> peter as in me?
18:37:39 <tatica> I'm s sorry, but less important things have more post, meetings and attention. So I just read excuses to avoid the fact that the event was discussed completely closed. Sorry :/
18:37:43 <j_dulaney> As I said, Tuesday evening in FAMNA meeting
18:38:01 <rbergeron> pbrobinson: yes, sorry
18:38:08 <rbergeron> christ, battery, brb
18:38:33 <pbrobinson> well the major problems that I have with it are 1) why wasn't the board kept in the loop even if it was board-private
18:38:56 <j_dulaney> +1
18:39:11 <j_dulaney> Better:  Board-public
18:39:12 <pbrobinson> 2) if it's a week long conference why does it start on Thursday and end on a Tues with some extra hack days on the end because that effectively makes it two weeks
18:39:28 <spot> pbrobinson: i can answer #2
18:39:39 <pbrobinson> I agree f-a-b list would be better but even some heads up
18:40:01 <spot> #2 we tentatively scheduled it to wrap a weekend because that is easier from an event planning perspective and it means fewer "work" days that people would have to miss.
18:40:05 <pbrobinson> the first I heard was when a lot of people yesterday pinged me with links and "WTF is going on?" questions
18:40:15 <misc> pbrobinson: 2) is a detail, based on my experience, there is no type of format that satisfy everybody
18:40:20 <j_dulaney> 3)  Are we going to get *that* many speakers and 4)  Isn't one of the main purposes of FUDCon to get things doen?
18:40:26 <j_dulaney> s/doen/done
18:40:41 <pbrobinson> spot: but then you fuck a whole lot of people over that need to travel either side and you still get work days involved
18:40:54 <misc> ( ie, people do not like when that's the weekend cause that's weekend, and do not like work, cause they work, do not like too short cause they want longer event if that's good, but too long even is too long and need to take pto )
18:40:55 <j_dulaney> +1
18:41:21 <pbrobinson> spot: travel the day before and after and you're still basically taking the same amount of work days and spreading it over 2 weeks
18:42:03 * spot politely suggests that if you want to talk logistics, we have a scheduled meeting in 20 minutes to do just that.
18:42:09 <inode0> +1
18:42:15 <gholms> How do we improve transparency when people are in "crunch-time mode"?
18:42:18 * rdieter (still) doesn't think it's productive to spend board meeting time discussing event planning.  detailed discussion is for fudcon-planning .  I'm satisfied with being brought up to speed
18:42:24 <pbrobinson> spot: I doubt I'll get listened to so I barely see the point
18:42:47 <spot> pbrobinson: deep breaths, friend. we're all listening calmly. Nothing is set in stone.
18:42:48 <rbergeron> okay, logistics aside: to peter's #1 question: I guess that is my fail, though, again, "proposal" I suppose fits the situation better.
18:43:21 <j_dulaney> pbrobinson:  Welcome to my world (not being listened to)
18:43:26 <dan408> spot: if nothing is set in stone would location proposals be heard?
18:43:52 <pbrobinson> rbergeron: information/heads up/kept in the loop/what ever you want to call it :-)
18:44:11 <j_dulaney> +1 to dan408:  Charleston in summer is going to be balls-ass expensive due to touristy town
18:44:27 <rbergeron> (at this point after looking at summer ticket travel prices I am sort of on the "holy christ, can this really bring in enough people" fence
18:44:43 <j_dulaney> That, too
18:44:52 <rbergeron> though i will say that i have gotten some very nice offers of support from various folks while here in terms of sponsorship :D
18:45:23 <tatica> but I guess no information is public, right?
18:45:26 <pbrobinson> spot: and on the breathe bit... sitting back quiet relaxed on the couch with a whiskey....
18:45:30 <gholms> spot: So if this hadn't sprung when it did, when would we have found out about it and what can we to to make that happen sooner?
18:45:33 <dan408> San Francisco remains cool during the summer and is a nice touristy town.
18:45:44 <gholms> ...next time.
18:46:03 <spot> gholms: yeah, definitely want to start this process a lot earlier (and more openly) next time.
18:46:26 <jreznik> pbrobinson: +1 for #1, #2 is hard - you can't make all people happy...
18:46:30 <rbergeron> tatica: regarding what
18:46:34 <pbrobinson> rbergeron: august is the worst time to travel in Europe in that regard to anywhere else so I'm not surprised on prices there, I suspect we'd be able to bring double in Jul or September
18:47:02 <j_dulaney> dan408:  The problem with touristy town is it's expensive during tourist season
18:47:04 <spot> guys? can i ask nicely that we have this in the planning meeting in 15 minutes? :)
18:47:09 <tatica> everything. I guess you will set up all information in this website, but since there is nothing more than an old post and a recent questions thread, there is not too much info to search for
18:47:17 <jreznik> pbrobinson: I already checked and well, it's pretty expensive to get there - so one question - how many people do you expect you will be able to cover (for this location?)
18:47:35 <dan408> j_dulaney: well San Jose is cheap although a little bit warmer.
18:47:41 <rbergeron> gholms: i think the sticky point has been that we get our actual $ amount in march/april, and literally it's a "won't know if there's anything, something, a crapton" - which makes planning in general, IMO, sucky
18:47:56 <jsmith> Is there any informatoin on budget numbers, and how much Fedora needs to get from sponsors to make this work?
18:47:57 <j_dulaney> dan408:  I don't care about temps, I care about price
18:48:04 <rbergeron> if you want it to be for sooner in the year rather than later in the year (the fiscal year, which runs march 1 - february 28
18:48:07 <rbergeron> )
18:48:16 <pbrobinson> I was checking from London and there's no direct flights to Charleston from here!
18:48:21 <dan408> j_dulaney: regarding price, there are many companies that would love to sponsor, I'm sure, being silicon valley and all.
18:48:43 <j_dulaney> pbrobinson:  If you fly into RDU, I can pick you up
18:48:44 <pbrobinson> which means that basically anyone coming from anywhere outside of the US needs to connect
18:48:47 * rdieter agrees with spot, and will be a sad panda if this topic is all that fits in an hours meeting
18:49:11 <pbrobinson> j_dulaney: excuse my ignorance of US city codes but where is RDU?
18:49:12 * spot will discuss all these topics in the meeting in 12 minutes. Promise. :)
18:49:16 <dan408> where will the planning meeting be?
18:49:19 <spot> pbrobinson: Raleigh Durham, NC
18:49:30 <misc> dan408: in 10 minutes, meeting-2
18:49:34 <dan408> thanks
18:49:43 <pbrobinson> rdieter: I never saw an agenda, what else is on the list?
18:49:45 <gholms> Good point.  What's next on the agenda?
18:49:59 <rbergeron> Nothing. Pitchforks. :)
18:50:11 <gholms> Heh
18:50:13 * rdieter thought we had more user-base stuff , that's more relevant to us
18:50:16 * j_dulaney is cleaning his shot gun
18:50:32 <rdieter> I guess nothing specific though
18:50:51 <misc> rdieter: well, do we have anything new on that front ?
18:51:05 <rbergeron> rdieter: at beginning of meeting i stated I am woefully unprepared for it today, this is a hot issue, etc.
18:51:26 <inode0> there were some good blogs about the subject but 10 minutes isn't enough time to really discuss it
18:51:46 <rdieter> fair enough, punt.  I personally didn't have much to contribute here/now
18:52:21 * inode0 suggests moving that discussion back to front and center next week
18:52:40 * gholms agrees
18:52:42 <rbergeron> inode0: ack
18:53:04 * rbergeron is glad to be shipping alpha as well (if y'all missed that) which means less back and forth between meetings
18:53:10 <rbergeron> for some folks here
18:53:22 <Sparks> So bottom line is that we are stuck with the plans that have already been "announced" regardless of other options that are/become available?
18:53:23 * inode0 also suggests easy access to tranquilizers before the next meeting for those needing them :)
18:53:33 <pbrobinson> rbergeron: WOO! I did miss that :)
18:54:06 * j_dulaney notes that was the meeting he was looking for, but saw the topic here ...
18:55:01 <rbergeron> sparks: i honestly don't know, and i say that from a "things signed" perspective
18:56:24 <rbergeron> perhaps next hour will be more detailed as far as that goes
18:56:25 * j_dulaney notes that storm clouda are a brewing on the horizon
18:56:59 <Sparks> It would seem that in the 24 hours after the news hit that potential options became available (including another possible San Jose location).  But without any information on the budget being made public, etc, no one is able to provide any alternatives.  Maybe this is the best/only option but it was really never an option.
18:57:22 <pbrobinson> I agree with that
18:57:41 <pbrobinson> and we're locked in without even being able to speak with companies / sponsors
18:57:47 <misc> so I guess 1 thing is to have the budget
18:57:55 <pbrobinson> or even companies that might follow this stuff being aware
18:58:07 <spot> Hey, folks.
18:58:13 <spot> Just wait 3 minutes. mmkay?
18:58:20 <misc> spot: warming up :p
18:58:25 <spot> Get a drink of water. A tasty snack.
18:58:39 <pbrobinson> or hard liquor
18:58:40 * j_dulaney slips a few shells in his nice, clean shotgun
18:58:59 <rbergeron> sparks: i am unaware of all of what has/has not been shown, written, etc. so ... yeah.
18:59:02 <spot> Save your flames. And please, don't threaten us with weapons or explosives. Us Bostonians aren't in the mood.
18:59:08 <skvidal> j_dulaney: the gun comments are really not appropriate
18:59:36 <pbrobinson> I agree
18:59:47 <dan408> yes, i would just like to send my thoughts and prayers to you all in Boston, that was terrible what happened there.
18:59:57 <misc> so, end of meeting ?
19:00:34 * misc take the fuse of adamw and use it
19:00:49 <rbergeron> I think so.
19:01:08 <gholms> Mhm.  Flames aren't going to help anything.  If you want to help move planning forward, join the meeting!
19:01:11 <rbergeron> misc: would you like to take the action of sending out notes?
19:01:20 <gholms> Thanks, all
19:01:22 <misc> rbergeron: yep, but there isn't much note to send :)
19:01:27 <rbergeron> misc: logs
19:01:29 <rbergeron> links
19:01:32 <rbergeron> :)
19:01:32 <misc> ok
19:01:38 <misc> #action misc send notes
19:01:41 <rbergeron> #action misc to send out minutes/logs as they are
19:01:52 <rbergeron> #endmeeting