23:00:07 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
23:00:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 27 23:00:07 2010 UTC.  The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:00:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
23:00:07 <Sparks> #meetingname Fedora Docs
23:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
23:00:07 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
23:00:29 * Sparks is here
23:00:30 * laubersm here
23:00:36 * jjmcd 
23:00:56 * bcotton is here
23:00:59 * jhradilek is here as well
23:01:22 <kecalli> here
23:02:25 * nb 
23:02:32 * sgordon lurking
23:02:58 * Sparks is happy to see so many people here tonight.
23:03:10 <Sparks> #chair jjmcd
23:03:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks jjmcd
23:03:31 <Sparks> jjmcd: Giving you backup control as there is a TOR watch for my area
23:03:45 <jjmcd> goodie - we did that yesterday
23:04:17 <Sparks> Okay, lets get started.
23:04:27 <Sparks> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
23:04:45 * Sparks notes GadgetWisdomGuru is absent
23:04:55 <Sparks> #action GadgetWisdomGuru to assist rbergeron with the Release Announcement
23:05:00 <jjmcd> I see rbergeron on the left tho
23:05:08 <Sparks> #action GadgetWisdomGuru to send a message to the Docs list regarding the "Fedora Library" and fixing FBReader
23:05:20 <Sparks> jjmcd to document the process of translating non-English source guides
23:05:26 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_workflow_-_translations
23:05:26 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_workflow_-_translations
23:05:31 <Sparks> #undo
23:05:31 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x2b5233733a50>
23:05:34 <jjmcd> Could use eyes
23:05:37 <Sparks> jjmcd: So that's awesome
23:05:41 <jjmcd> But I think it's soup
23:05:49 * Sparks will check it out later
23:05:58 <Sparks> rbergeron: You here tonight?
23:06:22 <Sparks> #action rbergeron to work with GadgetWisdomGuru on the Release Announcement
23:06:50 <Sparks> Actually anyone that would like to help out rbergeron (Robin) on the announcement, I'm sure she'd appreciate some help
23:07:26 <jjmcd> If I recall, the F13 announcement wasn't as colorful ass some of the earlier releases
23:07:40 <jjmcd> Be nice to get back to the fun ones
23:08:05 <Sparks> Yes
23:08:17 * Sparks gave it some love earlier but now can't find the link!
23:08:48 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_announcement
23:09:10 <Sparks> So I'd encourage everyone to go over and take a look.  It's a wiki so be bold!
23:09:34 <Sparks> Okay, moving on
23:09:38 <Sparks> #topic Doc's announcement
23:09:47 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_14_Release_Announcement
23:09:56 <Sparks> #info Will be posted to the Docs Project blog and will go public at 10:00AM on 02 November
23:10:24 <jjmcd> I assume more guides will follow
23:10:26 <laubersm> Sparks, I should have the UG published to plan on adding it to the list - but I will ping you when it really happens....
23:10:27 <Sparks> This is just an informational blog post that will go out to the Planet at release time
23:10:43 <Sparks> laubersm: Okay.  That's cool
23:10:54 <Sparks> jjmcd: I hope so.  That was just the list of what's on the website now.
23:11:04 <Sparks> Which I'll address in a bit.
23:11:46 <Sparks> This announcement also needs some love so feel free to make changes/additions/subtractions.  I'd like to have it ready to go by Sunday evening.
23:11:59 <Sparks> Questions/comments?
23:12:17 * rudi_ sneaks in the back of the meeting
23:12:46 <Sparks> rudi_: Welcome!
23:12:54 <rudi_> Dang! Sprung :)
23:13:08 <Sparks> Heh
23:13:12 <Sparks> Okay, moving on
23:13:13 * jhradilek is reading the final announcement template...
23:13:22 <Sparks> #topic Release Notes
23:13:27 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Notes_schedule
23:13:34 <Sparks> jjmcd: Tell me a story
23:13:41 <jjmcd> Not much to tell
23:13:50 <jjmcd> We have a few bugs to correct, ETA Friday
23:14:02 <jjmcd> Then make a push to doc.fp.o and
23:14:08 <jjmcd> new POTs on Tue
23:14:23 <jjmcd> Then, a week for translations, new RPM, another web push
23:14:37 <jjmcd> RNs made it to the release
23:14:44 <jjmcd> 7 languages if I recall
23:14:53 <jjmcd> <eof>
23:14:56 * tezcatl cheers meeting
23:15:02 <Sparks> Okay.  Can you make notes on all the RN bugs and/or close them on Friday?
23:15:09 <jjmcd> That is the plan
23:15:25 <jjmcd> Usually when someone takes the time to post a bug
23:15:35 <jjmcd> they have a clear description of the problem
23:15:46 <jjmcd> so it tends to be an easy fix.  Not always, but usually
23:16:27 <jjmcd> ANd of course
23:16:34 <jjmcd> Koji closes them for us
23:16:57 <Sparks> That's true.
23:17:04 <jjmcd> It's like magic
23:17:12 <laubersm> magic is cool
23:17:16 <Sparks> Probably better to let Koji handle the closures as long as you tell Koji about it.
23:17:32 <jjmcd> Yeah, and better to tell koji cuz then everyone knows
23:17:38 <Sparks> Yep
23:17:44 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
23:17:53 <jjmcd> Not from here unless questions
23:18:01 <Sparks> Anyone have any questions?
23:18:22 <Sparks> Okay, moving on
23:18:30 <Sparks> #topic Guide Status
23:19:06 <Sparks> If you are releasing a guide for F14 please go ahead and publish it to docs.fp.o
23:19:23 <Sparks> and publish the completed translations as well.
23:19:35 <rudi_> Moreover, please publish it straight to F14, not to Draft
23:19:42 <Sparks> +1
23:20:11 <Sparks> I'd hate to think of the collisions that could happen if everyone tries to publish on Monday
23:20:41 <rudi_> Yeah, our current process is a little fragile :)
23:20:44 <Sparks> but Monday is the last day to get these docs published so we can make sure everything is working right
23:21:05 <rudi_> Also, anyone publishing -- please make sure to update to the latest publican and publican-fedora
23:21:07 <Sparks> Tuesday morning at 1500 UTC is the release time
23:21:54 <Sparks> #info All Docs should be published no later than Monday at 23:59 UTC.
23:22:11 <rudi_> #info update to Publican 2.3 and Publican-Fedora 2.0 before publishing
23:22:17 <tezcatl> ?
23:22:28 <Sparks> #action Sparks to broadcast that All Docs should be published no later than Monday at 23:59 UTC.
23:22:33 <Sparks> #undo
23:22:33 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2b5234d91c90>
23:22:39 <Sparks> #action Sparks to broadcast that All Docs should be published no later than Monday at 23:59 UTC via email
23:22:53 <Sparks> tezcatl: Go ahead with your question
23:22:58 <tezcatl> thanks
23:23:30 <tezcatl> every guide on docs.fp.o has a component on bugzilla in order to reporting bugs?
23:23:31 <tezcatl> eof
23:23:51 <Sparks> tezcatl: Yes
23:23:52 <rudi_> tezcatl -- yes, or at least it should
23:24:02 <Sparks> And if you find one that doesn't please let me know!
23:24:14 <jjmcd> Something that might be worth mentioning to the newer folks ...
23:24:18 <nb> Sparks, thats handled by owners.list in the old /cvs/docs isn't it?
23:24:29 <nb> we need to update to bugzilla sync script to use git.
23:24:32 <Sparks> rudi_: Did the updated feedback.xml page get pushed in the new brand?
23:24:41 <Sparks> nb: Yes
23:24:52 <rudi_> Sparks -- no; it would have been too disruptive
23:24:54 <Sparks> nb: And I haven't even thought about messing with it recently
23:25:00 <rudi_> Would have broken every translation
23:25:03 <Sparks> rudi_: Okay... F15, then?
23:25:03 <nb> Sparks, can you action that I'm going to look at moving it into git?
23:25:07 <rudi_> F15 for sure
23:25:11 <jjmcd> We don't see bugs as necessarily a bad thing.  These are our to-do list, and when someone takes the time to report in BZ, it makes our job a lot easier.
23:25:34 <Sparks> #action nb to get the Bugzilla owners.list sync script fixed to use git.
23:25:37 <rudi_> We can probably implement that a few weeks after GA when Guide translations die down a bit
23:25:40 <Sparks> nb: Is that on git, now?
23:25:48 <nb> Sparks, it isn't, its still in cvsdocs
23:25:57 <nb> but i'd like to move it to git
23:26:03 <Sparks> nb: Do it!  :)
23:26:14 <rudi_> #action rudi to add "get a bugzilla component" to the "Creating a new Guide" page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Creating_a_new_guide
23:26:19 <jjmcd> cvs knowledge is disappearing fast
23:26:28 <tezcatl> ok, thanks for the answers, so i'll write to the list for assistance if i get stuck with reporting bugs
23:26:34 <nb> rudi_, i dont think it'll let you if you aren't a chair
23:26:37 <nb> but i am not sure
23:26:39 <rudi_> Ah :)
23:26:47 <jjmcd> #action rudi to add "get a bugzilla component" to the "Creating a new Guide" page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Creating_a_new_guide
23:26:47 <nb> .addchair freenode #fedora-meeting rudi_
23:26:47 <rudi_> Sorry to jump the gun :)
23:26:50 <zodbot> nb: Error: '#fedora-meeting' is not a valid nick.
23:26:58 <nb> oops, i fail at syntax
23:27:05 <Sparks> tezcatl: Yeah, feel free to ask there or in #fedora-docs if someone is around.  The list does get more eyes, though, and may have a better chance for response.
23:27:06 <nb> lol
23:27:20 <tezcatl> :)
23:27:29 <Sparks> .chair rudi_
23:27:34 <Sparks> #chair rudi_
23:27:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks jjmcd rudi_
23:27:40 <Sparks> Gees, I fail too!
23:27:55 <jjmcd> nb is trying to lead you astray
23:28:00 * Sparks thinks that you don't have to be chaired to do action and info and links to zodbot
23:28:30 <bcotton> #agreed we should all learn how to use the bot
23:28:30 <Sparks> I guess we'll find out if rudi_'s action item is in there twice
23:28:34 <Sparks> heh
23:28:39 <nb> Sparks, true, i think only #agreed is chair
23:28:51 <nb> jjmcd, lol actually .addchair is .
23:28:54 * tezcatl knows anyone can do action info and even agreed commands
23:28:58 <nb> tezcatl, oh
23:29:07 <Sparks> Okay, does anyone have any questions/comments on the guides?
23:29:18 <nb> #info nb does not know much about meetbot and who can do what :)
23:29:32 <tezcatl> lol
23:29:36 <jhradilek> :-)
23:30:06 * jjmcd is thrilled that we have more help with ARG
23:30:07 <Sparks> Okay...  let's move along
23:30:22 <Sparks> jjmcd: Yeah, I'm extremely happy to have someone else working on that.
23:30:42 <Sparks> rudi_: Did publican and publican-fedora get pushed to stable?
23:30:53 <rudi_> Sparks -- still awaiting karma :)
23:31:02 <rudi_> Oh -- let me check
23:31:10 <jhradilek> I think they did.
23:31:21 <jjmcd> not in 12
23:31:50 <Sparks> rudi_: I think they had >3 karma
23:31:51 <rudi_> Oh sorry -- yes for F13, not for F12 or F14 yet
23:31:55 <Sparks> Okay
23:32:01 * nb will try to test them later
23:32:05 <Sparks> You may just want to go ahead and push... :)
23:32:05 <nb> and issue karma
23:32:24 <rudi_> Thanks nb :)
23:32:35 <jjmcd> not in yum yet for 13 either
23:32:54 <rudi_> jjmcd -- yeah, should be in next push
23:33:32 <Sparks> Okay, moving on
23:34:04 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
23:34:11 <Sparks> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
23:34:32 <Sparks> #info 96 Open Bugs
23:35:07 <Sparks> #info 40 New Bugs
23:35:40 <Sparks> If you have some time and are looking for something to do, going through these New bugs and seeing if you can develop a patch would be a great way to get some practice.
23:36:35 <Sparks> If you develop a patch ask that it be reviewed by the reporter and see if they agree.
23:36:43 <Sparks> Questions/comments?
23:37:29 <tezcatl> can i take at any bug i fell able to fix?
23:37:53 <nb> tezcatl, sure
23:38:06 <jjmcd> tezcatl, of course.  But it would be nice to tell the guide owner that you did it so he can deal with the changelog
23:38:31 <rudi_> And make sure that you only make changes in the *master* branch of the doc
23:38:36 <Sparks> tezcatl: If you provide a patch the guide owner can easily approve it and put it in the guide
23:39:18 <laubersm> tezcatl, and if you just have some text or idea of direction, that can get added to the bug to help the guide owner complete the fix
23:39:21 <tezcatl> ok, so i'll try to be polite :)
23:39:41 <Sparks> heh
23:39:59 * laubersm wonders what polite is like... hmmm
23:40:12 <laubersm> :)
23:40:36 <Sparks> Okay, anything else before we move on?
23:40:37 * laubersm thinks bold is better than polite
23:41:11 <Sparks> laubersm: A little of both is good... :)
23:41:16 <laubersm> heh
23:41:18 <Sparks> but being bold is what Fedora is all about!
23:41:26 <laubersm> show me the patch
23:41:39 <Sparks> patches are good!
23:41:44 * laubersm slinks to the back again
23:41:46 <Sparks> heh
23:41:49 <Sparks> Okay, anyone else?
23:42:58 <Sparks> #topic Open floor discussion
23:43:01 <Sparks> nb: ping
23:43:10 <nb> oh
23:43:15 <Sparks> Does anyone have anything they want to discuss?
23:43:26 <nb> Hey, if you change owners.list please let me know, i'm going to be working on moving it to git
23:43:37 <nb> so go ahead and change it in cvs, but send me a mail or ping me on here and make sure i know
23:43:50 <nb> or else your changes might not get put in the new git repo
23:43:51 <nb> EOF
23:43:55 <Sparks> Cool
23:43:58 <Sparks> Anyone else?
23:43:59 * rudi_ has two things
23:44:04 <Sparks> rudi_: Go
23:44:11 <rudi_> 1. update on automation
23:44:22 <nb> rudi_, oh, you have publictest7 to use
23:44:27 <nb> its rhel6 beta
23:44:28 <nb> iirc
23:44:43 <rudi_> Yesterday, the final EPEL5 dep for Publican went stable
23:44:59 <rudi_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Automating_publishing
23:45:25 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Automating_publishing
23:45:29 <rudi_> So I can now start building packages for the infra repo; nb I might need your help tagging some of that when I've built it
23:45:55 <rudi_> So, although the F14 horse has bolted, we're getting in early for F15! :)
23:46:22 <nb> rudi_, see -docs after the meeting
23:46:47 <rudi_> 2. Publican now supports "product" and "version" splash pages -- we should start using these! :)
23:47:07 <rudi_> Basically, we could have a F14 page that briefly describes the release
23:47:29 <Sparks> Cool
23:47:29 <rudi_> Even better if we can grab text that's already translated elsewhere :)
23:47:47 <rudi_> So ideas and guidance very welcome
23:47:50 * tezcatl wonders if that could be copied from One page release notes
23:48:27 <rudi_> We can also have "Product" pages to describe the content under Fedora Core, Drafts, and Contributor Docs as well
23:49:14 <rudi_> That's it from me :)
23:49:34 <tezcatl> !
23:49:37 <Sparks> Awesome.  Thanks rudi_
23:49:40 <Sparks> tezcatl: yes
23:50:00 <tezcatl> i have the mission for #fedora-latam to ask you how do you organize your workflow
23:50:20 <tezcatl> using task lists (bugzilla, trac, whatever)
23:50:32 <Sparks> tezcatl: Everything goes through BZ
23:50:35 <Sparks> And the wiki
23:50:52 <rudi_> Bugzilla is our main tracking tool
23:50:59 <Sparks> We have a couple of task lists on the wiki but they should probably be put on BZ for better tracking
23:51:30 <tezcatl> so, are not the trac instance really useful?
23:51:55 <Sparks> tezcatl: It's confusing.  BZ allows us to have a single repository for everything
23:52:31 <tezcatl> hmmm yes, i suppose is better to having all in just one place
23:52:39 <rudi_> That said, some people have used Trac to very good effect
23:52:47 <Sparks> tezcatl: Perhaps we could talk more after the meeting in -docs?
23:52:51 <rudi_> For example, Crantila (who wrote the Fedora Musicians' Guide)
23:52:51 <laubersm> trac works great from some groups but since we already trac bugs for docs in bugzilla it is easier to keep all in one place.
23:53:04 <tezcatl> ok
23:53:13 <rudi_> Trac is probably most useful for developing new docs, rather than maintaining existing ones
23:53:16 <Sparks> rudi_: Yes, except that no one in Docs knows if anyone has filed any tickets that we could help with
23:53:24 <Sparks> rudi_: Yes
23:53:38 <Sparks> Okay, anyone else
23:53:40 <Sparks> ?
23:53:45 <kecalli> is there any documentation that describes how to use publican and git as they relate to the fedora docs project? Trying to get the most out of both of those tools and also learn more about the workflow (start to finish).
23:54:06 <rudi_> kecalli -- quite a bit -- what you looking for?
23:54:22 <kecalli> just trying to learn more about contributing.  A lot of new stuff :)
23:54:27 <rudi_> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Publishing_a_document_with_Publican
23:54:44 <rudi_> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Branching_a_document_in_git
23:55:31 <kecalli> thanks.  Will take a look
23:55:33 <rudi_> And of course, the Publican Users' Guide itself
23:57:19 <tezcatl> oh the publican users' guide is really cool, maybe some examples of use exposed on wiki or so would be great too
23:58:04 <kecalli> sounds good
23:58:14 <Sparks> #action Sparks to add creating and publishing links to the Docs wiki page
23:58:44 <Sparks> Okay, anything else before we close?
23:59:35 <Sparks> Okay.  Thanks everyone for coming out tonight.
00:00:13 <Sparks> Since this is the last meeting before the release I'd like to remind everyone to keep an eye out on the Docs list for happenings
00:00:31 <Sparks> #endmeeting