00:00:19 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:19 Meeting started Thu Dec 16 00:00:19 2010 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:19 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:19 #meetingname Fedora Docs 00:00:19 #topic Roll Call 00:00:19 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs' 00:00:39 * jhradilek is here. 00:00:42 * Gearoid is here 00:03:00 Looks like this is going to be a short meeting 00:03:22 Where is everyone? 00:03:37 * sgordon is here 00:03:48 i hope you can all contain your excitement 00:03:51 :) 00:03:57 rudi just walked in so he will prob pop in too i guess 00:04:19 Okay 00:05:03 * Alegrya is here 00:05:59 Sparks: What is the agenda anyway? There is one for the last week on the wiki. 00:06:32 jhradilek: Same one 00:06:39 jhradilek: We didn't meet last week. 00:06:44 Okay, let's get started 00:06:49 * bcotton sneaks into the back row 00:07:14 #topic Follow up on last week's action items 00:07:29 #action jjmcd to work with the fedora-bookmarks owner to see if we can get the links fixed in F13 and F14 00:07:41 #topic Removing redirects on docs.fp.o 00:07:46 #info When Fedora 13 was released we had just upgraded to the latest version of Publican which changed all of our links on docs.fp.o. The search engines hadn't had enough time to catch up with the new URLs so we added links to act as redirects so the old URLs would still work. 00:11:19 * prabindatta is here 00:12:24 Sorry about that... my computer decided to reboot. 00:13:05 Okay, so we are going to have to leave the redirects in place until we can fix the bookmarks package. 00:13:09 Any questions? 00:14:04 #topic Publishing Documentation to the desktop 00:14:24 Okay, rudi isn't here so we'll come back to this next week. 00:14:33 #topic Guide Status 00:14:47 Anyone have anything to discuss with their guide? 00:15:07 * bcotton 00:15:30 bcotton: Go ahead 00:16:46 So I let Sparks talk me into committing to F15 as a goal of sorts for getting the RPM Guide re-released. If there's anyone who wants to cut their teeth by working on a chapter or two, see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Bcotton/RPM_Guide_tasks EOF 00:17:17 bcotton: Nice plug 00:17:25 * bcotton bows 00:17:44 We also need someone to work on the SELinux guides and, I think, the Virtualization Guide. 00:18:39 * prabindatta likes to talk about fedora release bookmark 00:19:00 what exactly is the state of the virt guide currently? 00:19:31 * nb here 00:19:38 * jjmcd too 00:19:39 sgordon: I'm not sure. 00:20:09 prabindatta: Well, now that jjmcd has decided to join us lets talk about that. One second... 00:20:19 Sparks, have we talked to the maintainer yet? 00:20:22 about fedora-bookmarks? 00:20:50 Okay, anything else on the guides before we move onto the bookmark discussion? 00:21:24 #topic Fedora-bookmarks 00:21:37 nb: I think jjmcd was going to work with the developer. 00:21:43 Let me review the situation as I see it 00:21:56 We can't directly fix current installs 00:22:11 However, if we correct the redirect, most people will get what they expect 00:22:26 And I think we should correct the package 00:22:34 so that new installs are correct 00:22:44 jjmcd, what kind of changes are necesary in hte package? just changing urls to other urls? 00:22:45 Then, we should remember to check the package each release 00:22:53 nb, yup 00:23:17 * nb considers "just doing it" 00:23:25 jjmcd: Can we take this to some sort of board to see if we can get buy in on actually fixing existing installations? 00:23:26 yup! I was going to say the same 00:23:31 The package should point to the associated release 00:23:44 jjmcd: It's going to be wrong for someone. 00:23:51 ...if we just change the redirect 00:23:53 Sparks, I suppose we could, but based on stickster's comments 00:24:03 Yes, but not a big surprise to anyone 00:24:26 If you go to "release notes" and get the latest release notes it shouldn't be a big surprise 00:24:32 .whoowns fedora-bookmarks 00:24:32 nb: caillon 00:24:47 jjmcd: I just hate to have broken things in the wild 00:24:49 Sure, it would be nicer if you got to the release notes for your version 00:25:03 Sparks, I agree, but I suspect we won't get a lot of sympathy 00:25:14 I suppose we should ask, tho 00:25:33 I'll bet the rawhide version of fedora-bookmarks is already broken 00:25:42 Sparks, yep 00:25:53 * jsmith is late to the meeting 00:26:15 Sparks, I haven't spoken to caillon 00:26:29 jjmcd: Can we create a placeholder for the F15 RNs so we'll have an active URL? 00:26:32 But the actual changes aren't too tough, unless we go with fixing existing 00:26:53 How about this. 00:26:58 I suspect Publican will expose them if they are there 00:27:02 Can we change the behavior of FF? 00:27:44 I think it happens with FF install, or firstboot. So fixing FF doesn't do any beter than fixing bookmarks 00:27:50 I think that is the only browser that does this. 00:28:03 Seamonkey seems to do the same 00:28:14 But I don't think it grabs rn's 00:28:15 Oh 00:28:38 I mean if we put the bookmarks somewhere accessible and have FF go directly there instead of the user's directory... 00:28:44 At least, it seems to have all the same data. 00:28:45 that would solve the problem 00:29:01 Well, the whole problem is that the user wants to tailor them 00:29:14 true 00:29:50 I have toolbar folders for beats, bugs, and mysql databases 00:30:19 I prolly should retest seamonkey on f14, looked at it on f12 00:30:34 Which is where I had every browser known to man installed 00:30:48 heh 00:30:56 We have like a dozen browsers 00:31:28 Okay, so we need to figure this out OR just remove the RNs from those links since we are already providing that via Documentation under System. 00:31:34 I think the behavior is inherited from mozilla 00:31:48 Something to be said for that 00:31:51 jjmcd, is it just the first link on http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=fedora-bookmarks.git;a=blob_plain;f=default-bookmarks.html;hb=efda072796e9ff212976eb16f20eddb59462e3d6 00:31:56 that needs to be changed? 00:32:03 But we still should fix the redirect 00:32:04 if so, i think i could do it as a provenpackager 00:32:32 We should at least ping the owner. At this point there is an open discussion on the bug 00:33:24 I'm for just removing the link... personally 00:34:03 I don't see ahuge problem with pointing to current release notes 00:34:16 I'm sure that redirect url is other places in the wild 00:34:47 But the bookmark should either be correct or removed 00:34:57 Except for that's only valid for part of the userbase 00:35:05 +1 00:35:17 Well, I think that is a bit of a reach 00:35:29 What's a reach? 00:35:46 If you click on "Release Notes" you might want F12, but just as likely you want the most recent 00:36:03 Especially if you have the F12 release notes on your system 00:36:12 i think the most logical thing to do is to use the current release notes 00:36:16 Maybe, but if you are ON F12 then you would probably expect to get F12 00:36:18 although i support removing the bookmark 00:36:39 So I wouldn't call it "invalid" for anyone, although for some small group it might not be there preferred destination 00:37:06 I'm all for giving callion the alternatives ... fix it each release or remove it 00:37:32 Tho the more I think about it, the less I like "fixing" it 00:37:58 Well, at least we have some options. 00:38:16 Anyone else? 00:38:17 If you look for RNs on the web, and you have RNs for your release locally, than almost certainly you want the most recent 00:38:38 ANd the answer then is to fix the redirect each release 00:38:59 Yeah but that won't fix the link if you are upgrading 00:39:19 +1, fix the link on each release 00:39:22 Which is why leaving bookmarks alone and fixing the redirect is the right answer 00:39:26 Or restoring your /home 00:39:42 Except for the fact that you haven't fixed the problem 00:39:53 For probably 90% of the people you have 00:40:00 By fixing the redirect you have fixed it for some and broken it for others 00:40:04 Changing bookmarks breaks it for the 90% 00:40:26 Removing it fixes it for everyone 00:40:47 If you have the F12 notes spinning, why use the web to look at them? If you look at them on the web you almost certainly want the most recent 00:40:48 Since we are already pushing it separately 00:41:38 Well, removing it only fixes new 00:41:50 FOr everyone else, we need to fix the redirect anyway 00:42:16 My vote is for removing it and bumping the redirect. 00:42:50 We gotta bump the redirect each release. Leaving it or removing it doesn't make a lot of difference to me 00:43:16 *BUT* 00:43:20 Well, we can actually track how many hits we are getting through that redirect so we should be able to tell when people stop using it 00:43:37 We should have a bookmark to docs.fp.o 00:44:07 People will start using it on the run up to a new release 00:44:21 I like it 00:44:38 * prabindatta too 00:44:46 Sparks, want me to grep the logs real quick? 00:44:58 that is, if i can get to them......... anything on NFS is fail rightn ow 00:45:04 but i think they are stored locally on noc01 00:45:22 nb: I think you did a couple of weeks ago. The number wasn't impressive IIRC 00:45:49 I wouldn't expect it to be 00:47:44 Okay, so are we in agreement to replace the link in bookmarks from the RNs to Docs AND to fix the redirect to the latest version of the RNs. 00:48:06 +1 00:48:12 +1 00:49:17 anyone else? 00:49:37 +1 :) 00:50:36 #agreed Replace the link in bookmarks from the RNs to Docs AND to fix the redirect to the latest version of the RNs. 00:50:53 jjmcd: Are you going to work on this? 00:51:08 Well, nb is the guy for the redirect 00:51:20 but I will work with callion to get the package fixed 00:51:44 nb: Do I need to put in a ticket? 00:51:52 +1 00:51:55 Sparks, i can fix it 00:52:00 where does it redirect from and to? 00:52:04 and where should it redirect to? 00:52:06 I guess I *could* fix the redirect, but it would take nb more time explaining to me how to do it than if he did it himself 00:52:22 nb latest release notes 00:52:29 So currently F14 00:52:35 #action jjmcd to work with callion to fix fedora-bookmarks to remove Release Notes and add Docs links 00:52:39 its in ~/puppet/modules/httpd/templates or /files not sure where, but i can do it 00:52:52 #action nb to fix the redirect from the F13 Release Notes to the F14 Release Notes 00:53:09 jjmcd nb: Can you guys work on this after the meeting? 00:53:30 yeah, but my initial "work" will be to ping the owner 00:53:43 Prolly email and on the bug 00:53:47 Yes 00:54:06 Cool 00:54:11 Okay, anything else on this? 00:54:24 Obviously I could trivially make the change, but I wouldn't want some weirdo messing with my package 00:54:34 heh 00:54:53 Especially if that weirdo is you. 00:54:59 especially 00:55:08 jjmcd, you can only change it if you are provenpackager or have commit acl for that package 00:55:14 anyone with puppet access can change the redirect 00:55:15 Okay, moving on. 00:55:18 good point, nb 00:55:21 but this can move on anyway :) 00:55:26 we can talk in -docs about the redirect 00:55:40 #topic Open floor discussion 00:55:55 Okay, does anyone have anything they'd like to discuss in the last 5 minutes? 00:58:52 Okay, thanks everyone for coming out tonight. 00:58:55 #endmeeting