14:00:10 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 23 14:00:10 2012 UTC.  The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:17 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:22 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
14:00:35 * jjmcd 
14:00:54 <randomuser> g'morning
14:01:42 * Sparks 
14:02:22 <claneys> hi
14:02:55 <chuckf> hello
14:03:30 <claneys> doc meeting has finished?
14:03:53 <bcotton> claneys: has just started
14:04:08 <claneys> ok, good
14:04:21 * jhradilek is here, by the way. Not that anybody cares. :)
14:04:53 <bcotton> #agreed we care that jhradilek is here
14:05:18 <bcotton> okay, by my ntpd it's 5 after, let's get started
14:05:35 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:06:01 <bcotton> Sparks to write wiki page on how to squash bugs ?
14:06:10 * pkovar is here
14:06:30 <bcotton> i'll go ahead and say that i've not yet done either of my action items
14:06:49 * Sparks hasn't done that
14:06:53 <bcotton> #action bcotton to send "beats are open" email to list
14:07:10 <bcotton> #action bcotton to add some links, etc to  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_contribute_to_Docs
14:07:21 <bcotton> #action Sparks to write wiki page on how to squash bugs
14:07:32 <bcotton> #topic Release Notes
14:07:48 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Notes_schedule
14:07:57 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats
14:08:12 <bcotton> Beats now open, take a beat, or re-take previous beat by removing * from your name at the link above
14:08:22 <bcotton> i don't believe i saw jjmcd check in, did i?
14:08:32 <jjmcd> uhhh, yes you did
14:08:48 <jjmcd> ANd that is really the current action
14:08:55 <bcotton> jjmcd: well nevermind then. the amount of coffee i need today is staggering. anything else to say on beats?
14:08:58 <jjmcd> look at the beats and claim a few
14:09:15 <jjmcd> Nope, not expecting much to happen for another couple weeks
14:09:45 <bcotton> excellent
14:09:52 <bcotton> #topic Guide Status
14:09:59 <bcotton> speaking of not much happening for a few weeks...
14:10:10 <Sparks> .
14:10:16 <bcotton> #link http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-17/f-17-docs-tree-tasks.html
14:10:45 <Sparks> I'm planning a reorganization of the Security Guide for F17.
14:10:57 <Sparks> I also have a question.
14:11:01 <bcotton> go ahead
14:11:36 <Sparks> At one time we were packaging guides to push with the releases.
14:12:09 <Sparks> The implementation never really formalized due to various issues.
14:12:51 <Sparks> The question came up as to whether or not Anaconda could install the proper language documents at install.
14:13:25 <pkovar> like all our documents?
14:13:49 <Sparks> From what I understand, if we package guides up as Publican would have us do it: one language per package, then anaconda can do this now.
14:13:52 <Sparks> pkovar: Yes
14:14:04 <Sparks> So the question is, do we want to do something like this?
14:14:28 <pkovar> well, given the state of translations of majority of your guides...
14:14:49 <bcotton> how much work would it be? i'm not sure there's much demand for it, so i'm hestitant to do this especially if it pulls manpower away from getting guides out the door on time
14:15:15 <Sparks> Well, I see this as a two-sided sword.
14:15:26 <jjmcd> bcotton, packaging is pretty quick with d-p-r.  It could easily be modified to do a lang at a time
14:15:52 <Sparks> jjmcd: Publican should be able to do it pretty quickly, too.
14:15:54 <jjmcd> And indeed publican can
14:15:57 <jjmcd> Yes
14:16:02 <Sparks> It would give people something to do.
14:16:11 <Sparks> It would get our bits out there more.
14:16:24 <jjmcd> One q I have is that the packaging guidelines seem to change per release and I don't know whether publican keeps up
14:16:48 <Sparks> Unfortunately I've not seen a lot of forward push to get guides out the door so I'm not sure we'll take a hit on that.
14:17:09 <Sparks> jjmcd: I don't think there is much change in respect to what Publican would have to do.
14:17:11 <pkovar> at the end of the day, it's always about guide owners willingness to invest their spare time to maintain the packages, if people are willing, they can surely try that
14:17:31 <Sparks> jjmcd: I can build the F17 Security Guide and do a self-review on the package and see where we are.
14:18:01 <Sparks> pkovar: There really isn't much maintenance involved.  At least not too much more over existing maintenance.
14:18:12 <jjmcd> I know I have some obscure issued for f17 to resolve, don't recall what they are
14:18:20 <Sparks> Plus this might be the bridge to the next version of Publican where we will be changing our workflow anyway.
14:18:40 <pkovar> as i said, it's up to guide owners to decide, we can't force anyone just by saying it's not much work :-)
14:18:44 * Sparks notes the new version of Publican will have everything packaged for publication to the web.
14:19:00 <Sparks> pkovar: Yes but we can say it's a priority
14:19:28 <pkovar> also, it wouldn't make much sense to package non-English packages for the vast majority of guides
14:19:36 <Sparks> Why not?
14:19:56 <pkovar> because there are no translations available? :-)
14:20:03 <jhradilek> Sparks: Do you intend to package all guides, or just those that have highest priority (IG, SG, SAG)?
14:20:11 <Sparks> Well, that's a completely different problem now isn't it.  :)
14:20:17 <pkovar> u-to-date translations, that is
14:20:31 <Sparks> jhradilek: All.
14:21:10 <Sparks> jhradilek: I don't know how to properly prioritize guides.  Someone might always want to keep up with the Musician's Guide and never read the IG or RN or...
14:21:45 <bcotton> it'd be nice if we had some way to gauge user interest
14:21:56 <Sparks> bcotton: A survey?
14:22:12 <pkovar> or site stats?
14:22:19 <bcotton> Sparks: we could do a survey, though i'm not sure how we'd best distribute it
14:22:39 <randomuser> Sparks, how would the packaged guides be presented? in /usr/share/doc ?
14:22:43 <bcotton> i'm thinking about the non-contributor users
14:22:46 <Sparks> pkovar: We have information on visits to the web but I'm not sure it takes into account the unique hits.
14:23:29 <Sparks> bcotton: Distribute the URL via email (announce, etc), Planet, identi.ca, Twitter, etc
14:24:06 <Sparks> randomuser: I don't remember where they are located, now, but they would be easily obtained from the desktop.
14:24:40 * Sparks thinks there is a documentation group that they reside in but jjmcd could correct this
14:25:16 <jjmcd> The RN's are in /usr/share/doc/HTML
14:25:32 <jjmcd> But there are requests to change that
14:25:51 <Sparks> So...
14:26:07 <randomuser> hmm
14:26:18 <Sparks> If there is interest I can do some research this week and get back to everyone about the whats and wheres
14:26:45 <randomuser> if there's going to be a survey, i think presentation is a detail that should be included
14:27:01 <bcotton> Sparks: yeah, let's see what information can get pulled in
14:27:03 <Sparks> randomuser: +1
14:28:20 <Sparks> I also submitted an RFE for Publican to generate .mobi files in addition to .epub so that Kindle users can easily read our bits.
14:29:59 <Sparks> EOF
14:30:29 <bcotton> #agreed we'll revisit this topic next week
14:30:33 <bcotton> anything else on guides?
14:32:20 <bcotton> #topic Open floor discussion
14:32:59 <Sparks> FAD@SELF?
14:34:26 <Southern_Gentlem> FAD at fredericksburg will get more done than SELF
14:35:53 <Sparks_too> FAD@Jared's House?
14:36:25 <Southern_Gentlem> Jareds or Pauls LOL
14:39:59 <bcotton> crickets
14:40:03 <bcotton> anything else for today's meeting?
14:41:58 <bcotton> doublecrickets
14:42:08 <bcotton> okay, thianks everyone!
14:42:12 <bcotton> #endmeeting