14:00:40 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:40 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 21 14:00:40 2012 UTC.  The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:40 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:45 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:49 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
14:00:54 * jhradilek ✓
14:01:14 * Capesteve waves
14:01:26 * jjmcd 
14:01:33 * claneys 
14:01:42 * randomuser stumbles in
14:02:08 * pkovar is here
14:03:43 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:03:53 <bcotton> I had the only action item, and I did it. So yay me.
14:04:09 <bcotton> #topic Schedule slip
14:04:15 <bcotton> #info GA is now May 29
14:04:30 <bcotton> #info the published RN and Docs schedules do not yet reflect this change
14:05:06 <bcotton> so yeah, we have another week to get stuff done.
14:05:12 <jsmith> w00t!
14:05:19 <jsmith> I mean...
14:05:19 <Capesteve> phew
14:05:25 <jsmith> Let's get it done!
14:07:01 <bcotton> #topic Release Notes
14:07:13 <jjmcd> Couple things
14:07:16 <bcotton> jjmcd: welcome back from Dayton
14:07:22 <jjmcd> Thanks Ben
14:07:27 <jjmcd> I'm one tired puppy
14:07:43 <jjmcd> OK, so I got an RPM out last week with more languages
14:07:51 <jjmcd> Thanks for getting it quivk Karma
14:07:54 <jjmcd> quick
14:08:18 <jjmcd> Seems like we have another one or two out there so I better make another RPM
14:08:44 <jjmcd> I am waiting a few bugs until release day so we have completed translations on the disk
14:09:02 <jjmcd> the bugs are either minor, or irrelevant once you have installed
14:09:15 <jjmcd> so getting them on docs.fp.o more important
14:09:26 <jjmcd> Finally, a question
14:09:39 <jjmcd> Should we ever purge the changelog?
14:09:51 <jjmcd> The RN changelog is getting pretty darned long
14:10:09 <jjmcd> And I doubt anyone cares anymore about FC6 release notes
14:10:14 <bcotton> i assume it has changes back to F[a long time ago]?
14:10:28 <jjmcd> Yeah, really long
14:10:44 <jjmcd> I'm thinking maybe we should keep just a few releases back
14:10:59 <jjmcd> Although, the cost of that list is pretty minor so maybe it's ok
14:11:10 * Sparks is here
14:11:10 <randomuser> jjmcd +1
14:11:12 <bcotton> it makes sense to me to only include changes for the current release, since the previous releases are effectively a separate product. alternately, we can drop the unsupported releases
14:11:12 <jjmcd> Just makes for a slightly longer spec
14:11:39 <jjmcd> Or even if we keep just the supported releases
14:11:50 <bcotton> if we remove anything older than N-2, that should help keep it fairly tidy, no?
14:11:51 <randomuser> somebody could put together a fun feature timeline in a seperate publication if they are that much of a fan of history, imo
14:12:09 <jjmcd> Sometimes there is only one per release, but this time, for example, we will probably have a half-dozen RPMs
14:12:28 <jjmcd> Usually there are 3, beta, RC and zero day
14:12:41 <jjmcd> but it depends a lot on when translations complete
14:13:11 <jjmcd> ANd since d-p-r it is pretty easy to make a new RPM each time a translation completes
14:13:36 <jjmcd> bcotton - yeah
14:13:54 <jjmcd> It isn't a huge deal now, I was just thinking about neatening things up
14:14:34 <bcotton> so do we think N-2 is a good starting point for the purge?
14:14:44 <jjmcd> I think it would be good
14:14:57 <jjmcd> I mean, all the history is actually still in git
14:15:57 <jjmcd> So OK, let's do n-2
14:16:02 <jjmcd> sounds like a good start
14:16:11 <bcotton> #agreed Release Notes rpm changelogs will drop changes older than N-2
14:16:27 <bcotton> thanks for bringing that up, jjmcd. anything else?
14:16:36 <jjmcd> nope, nothing here
14:16:55 <bcotton> #topic Guide Status
14:17:27 <bcotton> anybody have anything to say about guides?
14:18:04 <pkovar> guide owners: please try to work with shaiton (and me) on cleaning up the list of duplicated lang codes, preferably before GA
14:18:37 <bcotton> #info Guide owners shoudl coordinate with pkovar and shaiton to clean up lang codes before GA
14:18:38 <pkovar> there are still lots of them, and it's blocking translation work
14:18:56 <bcotton> pkovar: can you #link that BZ ticket for the record?
14:19:16 <randomuser> i've been trying to follow along, pkovar; do we have a reference list for lang codes we want?
14:19:27 <bcotton> pkovar: (if you have it handy)
14:20:06 <pkovar> randomuser: this wiki section provides an updated list of lang code mappings : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_document_with_Transifex#Step_5:_Map_Language_Codes
14:20:22 <pkovar> bcotton: let me have a look
14:20:30 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_document_with_Transifex#Step_5:_Map_Language_Codes
14:20:42 <randomuser> thanks
14:21:01 <pkovar> bcotton: this should be it:  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=816765
14:21:19 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=816765
14:21:45 <pkovar> it's been filed against the installation-quick-start-guide component though
14:22:44 <pkovar> anyway, see this comment: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=816765#c2
14:23:20 <pkovar> it applies to a number of other languages
14:24:50 <claneys> I can try to help about that. It seems not so difficult
14:25:37 <pkovar> claneys: great, thanks
14:25:59 <claneys> pkovar: I come to you if help needed, ok ?
14:26:46 <pkovar> claneys: sure, feel free to ping me on #fedora-docs
14:27:49 <claneys> great
14:28:22 <bcotton> okay, anything else on guides?
14:29:09 <bcotton> #topic Open Help Conference
14:29:15 <bcotton> #link http://openhelpconference.com
14:29:21 <bcotton> #info Open Help Conference is Aug 11-15 in Cincinnati, OH
14:31:17 <bcotton> anyone have anything to say? should we stop bringing this up every week? :-)
14:32:06 <lnovich> is anyone going?
14:32:49 <jjmcd> It is a nice chance to interact with folks from upstream
14:33:00 <jjmcd> And also from other distros
14:33:04 <pkovar> fnadge is planning to go AFAIK
14:33:12 <lnovich> anyone speaking?
14:33:33 <pkovar> any other contributors from europe/EMEA going? :-)
14:33:42 <jjmcd> shaunm is trying to get a publican presentation
14:34:52 <claneys> It is a bit to far for me
14:35:05 <claneys> too*
14:35:33 <jsmith> bcotton: I'm going to try to go
14:35:40 <jjmcd> claneys, good excuse to see the Queen City
14:35:45 <jsmith> bcotton: But August is difficult... if I can go, I'll speak on Publican
14:37:31 <bcotton> jsmith: excellent. you've probably got the spiel memorized by now
14:37:33 <claneys> jjmcd: :)
14:37:49 <jsmith> bcotton: Yeah, I can *almost* do it in my sleep
14:39:57 <bcotton> anything else on the OHC?
14:40:37 <jwulf_> sorry I'm late
14:40:45 <jwulf_> OHC?
14:41:00 <bcotton> jwulf: Open Help Conference
14:41:32 <jwulf> i have a few things to report from FUDCon, if there is time
14:42:07 <bcotton> sure, it sounds like this topic is done, so
14:42:18 <bcotton> #topic FUDcon KL report
14:42:20 <jwulf> cool
14:42:40 <jwulf> The Docs Hack went well as a POC
14:42:46 <lnovich> great!
14:42:52 <jwulf> found and fixed a lot of bugs
14:43:01 <jwulf> and i'm working on cutting an alpha release of the system code
14:43:15 <jwulf> the book itself is about half finished
14:43:40 <jwulf> i'll leave it up for others to contribute to, for the next couple of weeks
14:43:53 <bcotton> jwulf: what was the reaction from the participants?
14:44:12 <jwulf> * When stepped through the task of contributing, many people are happy to do it
14:44:12 <jwulf> * Otherwise, the barrier is still too high for a lot of people - people lack the confidence that their contribution will be worthwhile
14:44:29 <jwulf> Recommendations for the next FUDCon Live Docs Hack
14:44:29 <jwulf> * Look at accepting asciidoc input, upconvert to Docbook behind the scenes
14:44:29 <jwulf> * Run workshops where participants and are guided through making a contribution
14:44:29 <jwulf> - Gather observations of user experience
14:44:29 <jwulf> - Guide them through the contribution to the point of seeing their handiwork
14:44:40 <jwulf> off the top of my head
14:44:56 <jwulf> when i sat down with someone
14:44:58 <lnovich> -maybe assign those who are not sure a mentor to contact?
14:45:01 <jwulf> they contributed
14:45:33 <jwulf> at the FUDCon the most effective thing is to sit down with people or to walk them through a contribution
14:45:56 <jwulf> there are a lot of things competing for their attention
14:46:13 <jwulf> and the unfamiliarity and apparent complexity of the task are barriers
14:46:22 <bcotton> maybe a screencast that people could watch would be helpful for getting people using it outside of FUDcons?
14:46:38 <jwulf> you mean like the one at www.fedorareloaded.com/index.html ?
14:46:48 <jwulf> let me know what you think of that
14:47:12 <jwulf> did it on the sidewalk outside the sydney airport after security threw me out
14:47:23 <jwulf> "No vagrants!"
14:47:54 <bcotton> #info comments welcome on Live Docs screencast
14:47:56 <jwulf> i'm writing scripts to make the alpha release of the system as automated as possible
14:48:01 <bcotton> #link www.fedorareloaded.com/index.html
14:48:04 <jwulf> and i'll patch the rest in documentation
14:48:19 <jwulf> Something else:
14:48:29 <jwulf> Kushal Das wants to donate this book to the Docs project:
14:48:35 <jwulf> http://kushal.fedorapeople.org/book/
14:48:57 <jwulf> He said he's happy to license and brand it for Fedora Docs
14:49:02 <jwulf> and he's wondering what else is involved
14:50:47 <bcotton> well the short answer is that it would require creating a new git repo :-) the longer answer is that i'm not sure what else we'd need. i'll look into it
14:51:31 <jwulf> cool
14:51:56 <bcotton> anything else about FUDcon KL?
14:52:02 <jwulf> maybe general guidelines for accepting contributions of entire books as well?
14:52:18 <jwulf> since the FUDCon KL product is also an entire book
14:53:05 <jwulf> We also designed a book in the Malay language
14:53:17 <jwulf> which we should be able to finish in a couple of weeks
14:53:54 <jwulf> umm... more about FUDCon KL?
14:54:37 <jwulf> It was heaps of fun and thanks to everyone who took part in the docs hack, those who contributed, those who gave feedback, and everyone who took an interest in it
14:54:48 <jwulf> /end
14:55:23 <bcotton> #topic Open floor discussion
14:55:36 <bcotton> we've just got a few minutes left. anything else that needs to be addressed?
14:57:08 <bcotton> okay, well thanks for being here everyone.
14:57:16 <bcotton> #endmeeting