14:00:11 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jun 18 14:00:11 2012 UTC.  The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:23 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:23 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:28 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
14:00:34 * jhradilek ✓
14:01:35 * jsmith is here
14:01:56 * pkovar is here
14:02:04 * _logan is here
14:03:00 * jjmcd (sort of here)
14:03:57 <bcotton> okay, well let's get the party rolling and see who else sneaks into the back row
14:04:04 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:04:08 <bcotton> i failed to do mine
14:04:21 <bcotton> #action bcotton to draft QA Wrangler role description
14:04:36 <bcotton> Sparks: you had three.
14:05:50 <bcotton> apparently my threatening gaze has scared him away. let's jsut pretend he hasn't done any of them
14:06:04 <bcotton> #action Sparks to follow up to mailing list about using koji to publish docs.fp.o
14:06:14 <bcotton> #action Sparks to file the ticket re: publishing with koji
14:06:36 <bcotton> #action Sparks to take man page website to mailing list
14:06:36 * Sparks is here
14:06:49 <bcotton> oh hey, just in time :-)
14:06:57 <bcotton> any updates on your action items, my good man?
14:06:59 <Sparks> The second action item was complete.  I'm hoping to have time to catch up on the other two today.
14:07:21 <bcotton> #info Sparks has completed to file the ticket re: publishing with koj
14:07:30 <bcotton> we now continue the Sparks show
14:07:38 <bcotton> #topic Using koji to publish docs.fp.o
14:07:51 <bcotton> Sparks: question
14:07:59 <Sparks> bcotton: answer
14:08:18 <bcotton> If we switch to koji, will we continue to use the docs-publishers group or will there be another ACL?
14:08:58 <Sparks> Because koji hasn't met FAS we won't need a group.
14:09:32 <Sparks> We will have to work out ACLs with Infra
14:10:16 <bcotton> okay, i was going to bring up changing the docs-publishers group to remove docs-writers as a prerequsite, but i guess it will soon be a moot point
14:10:49 <pkovar> we use the docs-publishers group for translation publishing requests, btw
14:11:20 <Sparks> pkovar: We will have to add the translators to the new ACL list, whatever that will be.
14:11:40 <pkovar> ok
14:11:43 <Sparks> bcotton: soon, perhaps, but I'm not sure when.
14:12:11 <bcotton> okay, cool
14:12:56 * Sparks needs to talk with Rudi about this.
14:13:06 <Sparks> We will also need to upgrade/change our backend process.
14:13:25 <bcotton> yeah, this will probably be a big change for us :-)
14:13:38 * Sparks hopes it will make it easier for people to publish
14:14:06 <lnovich> anything in particular you want me to ask Rudi about?
14:14:07 <bcotton> and save several terabytes of disk space around the world :-)
14:14:17 <Sparks> lnovich: Sure...
14:14:37 <lnovich> send me your questions, I will bring it up tomorrow
14:14:43 <Sparks> lnovich: What else do we need other than the koji instance and if Publican is ready for the changes.
14:14:54 * Sparks just isn't on IRC in the evenings as much.
14:15:07 <lnovich> As I just got online, I missed the complete thread
14:15:28 <lnovich> publican was being tested I think this past weekend
14:15:39 <lnovich> if you're referring to V3
14:18:03 <Sparks> lnovich: Ummm...  I can't remember what version we are running in Fedora
14:18:57 <lnovich> well it can't be 3 it hasn't been released yet
14:20:40 <Sparks> lnovich: Heh.  So I guess another question would be "do we need v3 to use koji?".
14:21:11 <Sparks> bcotton: That's all I have on this topic
14:21:19 * Sparks will send words to the list later today
14:21:32 <bcotton> anyone else have anything to say about using koji to publish?
14:21:32 <lnovich> i will let you know on that one
14:21:53 <daydrim> i've got question about SELinux User Guide )
14:24:15 <jhradilek> mprpic: <daydrim> i've got question about SELinux User Guide
14:24:20 <mprpic> daydrim: what's your question?
14:24:45 <mprpic> daydrim: btw, I still have your email open but haven't found the time to respond, sorry :(
14:25:11 <bcotton> sorry, folks, got distracted by $dayjob
14:25:15 <daydrim> what's the situation with SELinux User Guide. Is the project still alive? Could I help you with this project as a member of Docs team? I’ve posted an email to mail-list - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-June/014376.html about my ideas )
14:25:24 <bcotton> mprpic, daydrim can we save that for the end of the meeting, please?
14:25:30 <daydrim> yeap
14:25:32 <bcotton> #topic Publish man pages
14:25:33 <mprpic> bcotton: sure
14:25:40 <daydrim> kk
14:25:42 <bcotton> Sparks, still your floor
14:25:46 * sgordon is here, belatedly
14:27:13 <bcotton> Sparks: ping
14:27:54 <bcotton> anyone have any follow up discussion about creating a man pages website
14:28:02 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=828669
14:28:10 <sgordon> lnovich, pinged me about a question relating to the koji build issue if anyone wants to loop back to that at some point :)
14:28:39 <bcotton> sgordon: sure
14:29:06 * sgordon loads up his magic 8 ball
14:29:12 <ianweller> "ask again later"
14:29:22 <bcotton> okay, moving on then
14:29:24 <bcotton> #topic QA recap
14:29:44 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_QA_Procedure
14:31:25 <bcotton> anything more to discuss about QA? we still seem a little unsure of how to best make things work
14:31:35 * Sparks is back.
14:31:45 <bcotton> wb Sparks
14:31:56 <lnovich1> lnovich is back too..damn wireless
14:31:58 <Sparks> bcotton: I sent a SG update to QA last week.
14:33:51 <bcotton> Sparks: how'd it go?
14:36:41 <Sparks> bcotton: I haven't heard anything back, yet
14:38:12 <bcotton> hmph
14:39:22 * pkovar still thinks the qa procedure is too formal for a community project with limited resources
14:39:48 * jhradilek completely agrees with pkovar.
14:40:17 * Sparks thinks that QA is important enough to try to make it work
14:41:16 * bcotton agrees with pkovar, but is not sure an informal QA procedure is very helpful
14:42:00 <lnovich1> any procedure is helpful but will only work if followed
14:42:52 <lnovich1> to do  that someone needs to be the "policeman"
14:44:20 <lnovich1> I question step #4
14:44:45 <bcotton> lnovich1: what about it?
14:45:05 <lnovich1> as it seems that in steps 5-6 is re-checking step 4
14:45:56 <bcotton> kind of. i see step 4 as the reporter confirming the _content_ is fixed. 5-6 are more about the style and syntax
14:46:19 <lnovich1> qa can do both, no?
14:46:35 <lnovich1> it doesn't have to go from person to person
14:46:52 <bcotton> sometimes, but only the submitter knows if the patch really fixes it or not. sometimes the bugs are a little vague
14:46:57 <lnovich1> but we can discuss this offline if you'd rather
14:47:35 * Sparks needs to run but doesn't know if there is anything else coming up that he needs to deal with.
14:47:55 <bcotton> Sparks: you're good. we'll need to wrap up in a few minutes anyway
14:48:00 <Sparks> Okay, thanks.
14:48:05 * Sparks will be back in a few hours
14:48:46 <bcotton> the QA discussion is tough. we talked about it for weeks before finally deciding to try _something_
14:49:15 <lnovich1> tough but necessary
14:49:26 <bcotton> but that really only kicked the can down the road. now we need to figure out how to make it work
14:49:39 <lnovich1> do we have enough qa volunteers to make it work?
14:50:42 <pkovar> i don't think so
14:50:57 <bcotton> lnovich1: i'm not sure we do
14:51:00 <lnovich1> ok I will try to get us some....
14:51:39 <bcotton> okay, so let's table this for now, perhaps continuing discussion on the ml and in #fedora-docs
14:51:50 <lnovich1> agreed
14:52:01 <bcotton> #topic Open floor discussion
14:52:32 <bcotton> daydrim, mprpic: now's the chance for the guide question
14:53:06 <mprpic> daydrim: to answer your question:
14:53:33 <mprpic> daydrim: it was a bit dead, the book that is, but I have been making a few fixes here and there and prepping it for f17 release
14:53:45 <mprpic> I'm aiming at July 1st
14:54:08 <mprpic> I still need to get some feedback from an SELinux dev
14:54:40 <mprpic> if you're interested in contributing, please file bugs, submit patches, or anything
14:54:45 <mprpic> help is always welcome
14:54:55 <mprpic> I need to revive the wiki page as well, it's on the todo list ;)
14:57:40 <daydrim> ok ) thank you for your answers ) so, after you make changes and fixes, i will translate them to Russian ) and i'll be very thankful if you change add me to the translators list  )
14:57:41 <bcotton> anything else before I clsoe the meeting? we're almost out of time
14:58:11 <lnovich1> not from me
14:58:20 <bcotton> okay, thanks everyone!
14:58:24 <bcotton> #endmeeting