14:00:36 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jul 23 14:00:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:46 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:46 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:54 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
14:01:33 * randomuser` wanders in
14:02:04 * jjmcd 
14:04:04 <sgordon> whoop
14:05:58 <bcotton> welllllllllllll, shall we?
14:06:06 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:06:44 <bcotton> no sparks
14:06:47 <bcotton> any ianweller?
14:06:48 * pkovar is late
14:07:13 * sgordon 
14:07:19 <bcotton> okay then
14:07:29 <bcotton> #action Sparks to take man page website to mailing list
14:07:38 <bcotton> #action ianweller to ask the guys behind the packages app if man pages is a thing they can do
14:07:56 <bcotton> #topic Using koji to publish docs.fp.o
14:08:04 <bcotton> #info List discussion https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-May/014324.html
14:08:11 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Automating_publishing
14:08:29 <bcotton> so sparks isn't here, and i dont think there are any updates
14:08:50 <bcotton> does anyone who *is* here have anything to add?
14:09:52 <randomuser`> i think we were waiting to see what magick ianweller could conjure
14:10:06 <bcotton> okay, cool
14:10:22 <bcotton> #topic Publish man pages
14:10:39 <bcotton> again, this is a Sparks item. two weeks ago, we were trying to decide if this is a worthwhile effort
14:10:49 <bcotton> i think the answer to that question will depend on how much effort it is
14:11:15 <randomuser`> essentially the same as the previous \#topic
14:11:59 * bcotton sighs
14:12:07 <bcotton> #topic QA recap
14:12:13 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_QA_Procedure
14:14:05 <bcotton> there have been some edits to the wiki since the last time i looked at it. i think this is a pretty good procedure if we can select a tyrant of a QA wrangler
14:14:48 <randomuser`> i had a thought about that
14:14:53 <randomuser`> minor one
14:14:59 <bcotton> randomuser`: please share :-)
14:15:17 <randomuser`> are we concerned about the QA person QAing themselves?
14:16:32 <randomuser`> ...or people that aren't the QA wrangler doing QA for their own work, i guess
14:16:58 <bcotton> i'm not sure what you're asking
14:18:36 <randomuser`> so, procedurally: I find a bug I want to work on. I fix the bug, change to QA. I designate myself as the QA contact, and verify my own work. is that what we want?
14:19:13 <bcotton> randomuser`: no, i think we'd rather have someone else QA the bug
14:19:25 <bcotton> on the idea that you're more likely to catch someone else's errors than your own
14:20:07 <randomuser`> if not, we would state that an alternate, say - the qa list - should be the QA contact for work performed by the QA wrangler, but it' s part of the wrangler's job to wrangle someone to do it
14:21:10 <bcotton> that's a good point, want to make that edit?
14:21:45 <lnovich> the QA wrangler is the foreman, not the actual worker...the QA work itself is done by the QA assignee
14:21:46 <randomuser`> yeah, i'll try and manufacture more brevity for that
14:22:13 <bcotton> awesome, thanks randomuser`
14:22:18 <bcotton> lnovich: that's a good way to put it
14:22:48 <randomuser`> lnovich, i think that would be ideal, but as I see it, the main benefit of having a designated qa wrangler is that *someone* will be doing QA
14:23:52 <randomuser`> unless we're going to force QA approval on a relevant dev contact, which wouldn't bother me, personally
14:23:56 <lnovich> policy is the 'ideal' practice is getting it done - and they may very well be 2 different things
14:24:10 <bcotton> well there's nothing that says the QA wrangler *can't* do QA, too. just not on his/her own commits :-)
14:24:43 <lnovich> more important - WHO is going to step up and take this role?
14:25:57 <randomuser`> I'm considering it; $DAYJOB has been hectic so I'm reluctant to jump in front of someone that might have more time
14:26:01 <bcotton> lnovich: well that's a challenge, too
14:26:25 <bcotton> i'll put out a note on the mailing list, and we'll let randomuser` be the default if no one else volunteers
14:26:37 <randomuser`> that's fair
14:26:54 <bcotton> #action bcotton to send call for volunteers for QA Wrangler to mailing list
14:27:01 <lnovich> is there a QA list to contact, or are we our own QA?
14:27:08 <bcotton> #agreed if nobody volunteers, randomuser` will take the QA Wrangler role
14:27:17 <bcotton> lnovich: docs-qa@lists.fedoraproject.org
14:27:44 <randomuser`> bcotton, might want to crosspost, just to remind everyone of that list
14:27:52 <bcotton> randomuser`: good call
14:28:22 <bcotton> anything else on QA?
14:30:04 <bcotton> #topic Open Help Conference
14:30:12 <bcotton> #link http://openhelpconference.com
14:30:22 <bcotton> #info Open Help Conference is Aug 11-15 in Cincinnati, OH
14:33:15 <bcotton> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
14:33:33 <bcotton> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:33:34 <randomuser`> there are a lot, and stale ones too
14:33:51 * randomuser` tries on the QA hat
14:33:59 <randomuser`> you all should look at your bugs!
14:34:00 <bcotton> randomuser`: it fits you well
14:34:20 <bcotton> #info there are many open bugs. now is a good time to clear those up before life gets busy for F18
14:35:10 <bcotton> #info bug squashing is a good way for new contributors to get involved
14:36:20 <bcotton> #topic Open floor discussion
14:36:31 <bcotton> anything miscellaneous to talk about?
14:37:15 <bcotton> we have a new FPM. I'll see if we can get him to stop by and introduce himself to us, though i suspect many already know him
14:37:49 <sgordon> :D
14:38:55 <bcotton> anything else on people's minds?
14:39:12 <randomuser`> !
14:39:44 <randomuser`> do you, personally, want to have a summer scheduling poll, bcotton?
14:39:54 <bcotton> a what now?
14:40:20 <randomuser`> a whenisgood.net poll
14:40:39 <randomuser`> for the meeting time
14:40:39 <bcotton> for meeting times?
14:40:42 <bcotton> ah
14:41:37 <bcotton> do you think it's necessary? i'd like to avoid moving the meeting time too frequently, although i know there are some people who can't make this time
14:43:03 <randomuser`> I think it's the best way to tell if we need to move the meeting, and the pragmatist in me says that if the project lead has scheduling conflicts, move the meeting
14:43:12 <randomuser`> but there's a lot of value in consistency
14:44:02 <lnovich> If we can have the meeting once a month at an earlier time, then we can get those in the APAC region to join us...which there are many
14:44:33 <chuckf> bcotton: what's an FPM?
14:44:38 <bcotton> yeah, and the US west-coast is effectively shut out
14:44:42 <bcotton> chuckf: Fedora Program Manager
14:44:49 <chuckf> thanks
14:46:51 <bcotton> randomuser`, lnovich: if either of you want to bring up discussion of alternate meeting times or special off-time meetings, i'll prod the discussion along
14:46:59 <bcotton> maybe get the general temperature of people
14:47:07 <lnovich> agreed
14:47:11 * randomuser` nods
14:48:02 <bcotton> anything else for today's meeting?
14:49:52 <bcotton> going, going, gone
14:49:54 <bcotton> thanks everyone!
14:49:58 <bcotton> #endmeeting