13:59:02 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
13:59:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 24 13:59:02 2012 UTC.  The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:59:09 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Docs
13:59:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
13:59:15 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
13:59:18 * Sparks is here
13:59:20 * lnovich in
13:59:46 <Capesteve> I am here
14:00:33 <Capesteve> Best give the chronologically challenged another minute
14:00:40 * pkovar is here
14:00:47 <bcotton> #chair Sparks
14:00:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks bcotton
14:01:04 * jjmcd 
14:01:17 <Capesteve> ls
14:01:20 <jjmcd> sorry slow - working on presentation for Saturday
14:01:57 <bcotton> jjmcd: just be sure to put in a lot of annoying transitions :-)
14:02:24 * shaiton_ says Hi
14:04:12 <bcotton> okay, i have 5 after, let's get started
14:04:14 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:04:29 <bcotton> Sparks: Sparks to add relevant git commands to QA procedures
14:04:44 <Sparks> bcotton: I swear it is on my to-do list.
14:04:53 <bcotton> #action Sparks to add relevant git commands to QA procedures
14:05:12 <bcotton> Sparks: i believe you. i suppose preparing to move takes precedence
14:05:28 <Sparks> bcotton: It take a little bit.
14:05:59 <bcotton> #topic Fedora 18 schedule
14:06:04 <bcotton> #link http://jreznik.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-docs-tasks.html
14:06:09 <bcotton> #info Guides scheduled to be branched 2 October
14:06:15 <bcotton> #info POT files for guides due 2 October
14:06:42 <bcotton> hey! that's a week from tomorrow. If you're a guide owner, now's a good time to start thinking about this
14:07:15 <lnovich> is there a procedure somewhere that explains this?
14:07:38 <bcotton> lnovich: that's a good question
14:08:20 <bcotton> lnovich: the Documentation Guide talks about POTs
14:08:22 <bcotton> #link http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora_Draft_Documentation/0.1/html/Documentation_Guide/chap-documentation_guide-translations.html
14:08:48 <pkovar> you should basically run tx push -s, which upload pot files to transifex
14:09:17 <bcotton> lnovich: there's a wiki page about branching (which will eventually find its way into the documentation guide)
14:09:19 <pkovar> and please don't follow instructions in the documentation guide, they are outdated :-)
14:09:23 <bcotton> #link: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Branching_a_document_in_git
14:09:25 <bcotton> ah
14:09:32 <pkovar> use https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_document_with_Transifex instead
14:09:38 <bcotton> #info the Tx info in the documentation guide is outdated
14:09:45 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_document_with_Transifex
14:09:58 <bcotton> #action bcotton to update Documentation Guide with correct Transifex info
14:11:43 <bcotton> okay, now that that's cleared up. anything else re: schedule?
14:13:13 <bcotton> moving on, then
14:13:15 <bcotton> #topic Release Notes
14:13:27 <Sparks> Ooo Ooo Ooo, I have something for the RNs.
14:13:32 <bcotton> #info wiki beats due 26 September
14:13:41 <bcotton> #info wiki freeze 2 Octobe
14:13:43 <bcotton> Sparks: go ahead
14:13:45 <Sparks> .bug 859373
14:13:48 <zodbot> Sparks: Bug 859373 Danger in dual booting Windows 8 and Linux - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=859373
14:14:12 <Sparks> We need to document this in the RNs.  I'm going to reassign the ticket to the Release Notes so we won't miss it.
14:14:38 <Sparks> #info There is a danger in losing data when dual booting Windows 8 and Linux
14:14:47 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=859373
14:15:06 <bcotton> Sparks: eek, yeah we should probably make people aware of that
14:15:23 <Sparks> Yeah, seems like something we should do.
14:16:05 <Sparks> Also, is someone check for bugs that have the release notes flag selected?
14:17:10 <bcotton> judging by the silence, i guess not
14:17:40 <bcotton> i'll go through the list later this week and make sure everything in BZ ends up in the wiki beats
14:18:09 <pkovar> Sparks: you mean the requires_doc_text flag?
14:18:35 <Capesteve> surely not
14:18:37 <Sparks> bcotton: Okay.  There is also a 'fedora_requires_release_note' flag that can be set on *any* BZ ticket where someone things an entry in the Release Notes should be had.
14:19:11 <Sparks> bcotton: It might be good to have a section just for these types of entries so that people can just go directly there to read up on that information.
14:19:13 <jjmcd> Also keep in mind that there is a release notes component in Fedora as well as docs
14:21:19 <bcotton> okay, thanks
14:21:58 <bcotton> Sparks: like a "could blow up your computer" section before the rest of the sections?
14:22:33 <Sparks> bcotton: Yes
14:22:50 <Sparks> bcotton: "Could set fire to something important" kind of a section.
14:23:20 <Capesteve> I only noticed now that there are only two flags,        "requires_doc_text" and "needinfo"
14:23:53 <bcotton> jjmcd: as the most expert RN person in the room, would it be easy to insert such a section, or would that break a lot of the workflow
14:24:18 <jjmcd> Shouldn't be a problem  but it seems like it belongs in one of the front sections
14:24:42 <jjmcd> But we continually add and delete sections depending on the release
14:25:16 <Sparks> Capesteve: In the Fedora product?
14:25:17 <bcotton> jjmcd: excellent. That's what I was hoping you would say.
14:25:36 <Capesteve> Sparks: I was just looking at one of the bugs
14:25:44 <Sparks> jjmcd: We could keep that section and just have a big smiley face when there aren't any problems.
14:25:48 <Capesteve> was expecting more flags
14:26:06 <Sparks> Capesteve: That flag isn't available in the Documentation product, I believe.
14:26:22 <jjmcd> The Publican warnings do tend to get your attention
14:26:23 <Capesteve> ahh, silly me
14:29:27 <bcotton> okay, anything else on Release Notes?
14:30:22 <Southern_Gentlem> ??
14:30:49 <bcotton> Southern_Gentlem: did you have something?
14:30:49 <Southern_Gentlem> i hope the info on biosdevname is back in the releasenotes
14:31:42 <Southern_Gentlem> i think the last time in was there was f15
14:32:03 <Southern_Gentlem> for people that run matlab its a nessassary
14:32:53 <bcotton> Southern_Gentlem: from the features page, it looks like it was implemented in F15, which is probably why it hasn't appeared in the RN since. what specifically are you wanting to see?
14:33:30 <bcotton> (as part of the Consistent Network Device Naming feature)
14:33:35 <Sparks> Who uses matlab?
14:33:38 * Sparks ducks
14:33:52 <Southern_Gentlem> Sparks,  alot of people in the mathematics fields
14:34:11 <Sparks> Southern_Gentlem: Yeah, I used it quite a bit back in the day
14:34:14 <Southern_Gentlem> bcotton,  cut and paste into the new release notes so people still know its going on
14:34:30 <Capesteve> There is a section in the SysAdmin Guide "Consistent Network Device Naming"
14:35:04 <Southern_Gentlem> Capesteve,  but most users are not going to read the sysadmin guide they will read the releasenotes
14:35:38 <Capesteve> Southern_Gentlem: I am shocked
14:35:49 <Southern_Gentlem> most users from other distros will look into the releasenotes for drastic changes like this
14:36:08 <Sparks> Southern_Gentlem: Is there an open bug ticket on this?
14:36:28 <Southern_Gentlem> not that i know of
14:36:30 <bcotton> Southern_Gentlem: i understand that, but i'm not sure "we're still doing what we did in previous releases" is in the scope of the RN, for better or for worse
14:36:56 <Southern_Gentlem> bcotton for the new users it would be a service
14:37:20 <Southern_Gentlem> i have to point people to the f15 releasenotes on a regular basis because of this
14:37:35 <Sparks> bcotton: I don't think it's too much to say "And Matlab users are reminded that...".
14:37:36 <Southern_Gentlem> and they always say why isnt this in the releasenots
14:37:54 <bcotton> Southern_Gentlem: agreed, but where do we draw the line? How many changes do we keep carrying forward and for how long? I guess it's a matter of "what are the release notes supposed to be?"
14:39:02 <jjmcd> You gotta admit, tho, the dev names are a big change and plenty confusing
14:39:08 <Southern_Gentlem> bcotton that is for this group to determine, as someone who goes to conferences and works in the #fedora i am telling you what your audience wants
14:39:24 <jjmcd> But yea, the release notes are CHANGES from the previous release
14:39:52 <Southern_Gentlem> bcotton,  are there any other distros besides Fedora using biosdevname
14:40:13 <bcotton> Southern_Gentlem: not that i'm aware of, but there are a lot of things i'm not aware of :-)
14:40:35 <Southern_Gentlem> so another reason it should be there
14:40:42 <bcotton> i wonder if a wiki page of "Here's a list of things that Fedora does that might be way different from what you're used to" would be a better venue
14:41:28 <Capesteve> That is a good idea, I was wondering if it could it be added to a FAQ somewhere? A forum section even.
14:41:29 <Southern_Gentlem> bcotton sorry in my mind its Fedora specific it should be in the release notes
14:41:44 <Southern_Gentlem> Capesteve,  stay out of the forums
14:41:56 <Capesteve> Yes sir!
14:42:39 <Sparks> Yikes, a forum?
14:42:41 <bcotton> Southern_Gentlem: i understand. my perception of release notes is that it's a delta, so things that remain unchanged are out of scope. do other distros release notes carry changes forward like you're suggesting? i honestly don't know
14:43:53 <Sparks> bcotton: It's not going to cost us anything... I say just put it in.
14:44:08 <jjmcd> bcotton, most other distros have really lame RNs
14:44:32 <bcotton> Sparks: well i'm not sure i like the precedent, but since I lack dictatorial control, i'll assent :-)
14:44:35 <bcotton> jjmcd: that's a valid point
14:45:20 <Southern_Gentlem> bcotton,  myself i see the release notes as updates from the previous and any info need to make my fedora experience better
14:45:28 <bcotton> any burning objections to re-including biosdevname in the F18 release notes?
14:45:44 <Sparks> bcotton: The fact that the information is still valid, to me, makes it valid for the next release.
14:46:11 <bcotton> #agreed biosdevname will be re-included in the F18 release notes
14:46:28 <Southern_Gentlem> thanks guys
14:46:28 <bcotton> Southern_Gentlem: thanks for bringing this to our attention
14:46:58 <bcotton> anything else on Release Notes before we move on?
14:47:43 <bcotton> #topic Outstanding BZ tickets
14:47:53 <bcotton> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:48:35 <bcotton> anything on bugs?
14:49:24 <bcotton> #topic Open Floor Discussion
14:49:25 <Sparks> We still have them
14:49:39 <bcotton> Sparks: i'd be worried if we ever got to zero :-)
14:49:50 <bcotton> anything to add in the last 9 minutes?
14:52:10 <bcotton> okay, well thank you everyone
14:52:15 <bcotton> don't forget to finish your beats
14:52:20 <bcotton> and update your guides
14:52:26 <bcotton> et cetera
14:52:29 <bcotton> #endmeeting