14:00:46 <bcotton> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:46 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec 17 14:00:46 2012 UTC.  The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:46 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:50 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:54 * claneys 
14:00:57 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
14:00:58 * Capesteve waves
14:01:05 * jjmcd 
14:01:10 * lnovich here
14:01:26 * pkovar is here
14:01:42 * randomuser 
14:02:07 * zoglesby is here
14:03:51 <lnovich> this makes better attendance than last week!
14:05:58 <bcotton> #chair jjmcd zoglesby
14:05:58 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton jjmcd zoglesby
14:06:19 <bcotton> #info Participants are reminded to make liberal use of #info #link #help in order to make the minutes "more better"
14:06:34 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:07:08 <bcotton> zoglesby: i believe i saw the GA announcment on the mailing list, right?
14:07:24 <zoglesby> bcotton: indeed, work has started, but it is slow
14:07:42 <bcotton> how aboot your other action item: removing liberation fonts from RN?
14:08:07 <zoglesby> bcotton: I did not get that done, I am having auth issues with git that I need to work out
14:08:44 <randomuser> zoglesby, do you need to delegate?
14:08:47 <bcotton> do you need to pass that off or do you want to keep it assigned to you
14:09:04 <bcotton> randomuser: stop being more concise than me
14:09:08 <bcotton> :-)
14:09:12 <zoglesby> bcotton: if someone could do it that would be better
14:09:20 <zoglesby> it is only one line that needs removed
14:09:38 * zoglesby notes that we also need to get the master/f18 issue fixed
14:09:58 <randomuser> i can be mostly as capable for doing that removal of the line
14:10:00 <zoglesby> some people are working out of master other are working out of f18 and right now they are out of sync
14:10:34 <randomuser> zoglesby, wasn't that just me working out of f18, and jjmcd was fixing it?
14:10:34 <bcotton> #action randomuser to remove Liberation fonts from Release Notes
14:10:46 <randomuser> i didn't know any better, sorry
14:11:07 <jjmcd> I didn't fix it, just hacked around it
14:11:16 <jjmcd> It will take some doing to unravel
14:11:18 <zoglesby> randomuser: it was lots of people (I am just as guilty as I have been out of the loop for a while)
14:11:52 <bcotton> (since jreznik also did his action item, and we're talking about the RN, i'm just going to #topic it)
14:12:00 <bcotton> #topic Release Notes
14:12:20 <zoglesby> bcotton: sorry!
14:12:57 <bcotton> zoglesby: no worries
14:12:58 <zoglesby> jjmcd: I think a merge should be able to get the two insync
14:13:42 <jjmcd> zoglesby, possible.  Depends on what commits went where
14:14:41 <zoglesby> either way it is something that needs looked at (and maybe a friendly reminder sent to the list about workflow)
14:15:11 <randomuser> is this something we should leave for the push of the GA notes to the f18 branch?
14:15:57 <jjmcd> randomuser, we push RNs into F18 differently
14:16:00 <bcotton> it sounds like something we should fix asap
14:16:07 <bcotton> the longer we let it linger, the messier it could get
14:16:12 <randomuser> I can work on pulling individual commits over
14:16:15 <jjmcd> Problem is we have commits in both branches, and there should be none in F18
14:16:57 <jjmcd> I don't think there are a lot out of place, but one needs to look at commits in both branches to tell whether there are conflicts
14:17:01 <zoglesby> it could be easy as long if nothing conflicts, or it could be a nightmare
14:17:12 <jjmcd> zoglesby, exactly
14:17:13 <randomuser> it seems like we'd be going backwards, from the translation perspective, to purge commits from f18
14:17:29 <randomuser> would it be sufficient to make sure that master has everything we want in final?
14:17:34 <jjmcd> randomuser, Release Notes are an entirely different problem than Guides
14:17:41 <zoglesby> randomuser: we don't need to take commits out of f18, we need to get them back into master
14:17:43 <jjmcd> randomuser, yes
14:18:05 <randomuser> okay
14:18:12 <jjmcd> Because basically, we blow away everything in F18/en-US and copy in the master content
14:18:39 <randomuser> well, i'm willing to work on pulling commits into master, as I suspect it is mostly my mess to clean up
14:18:50 <zoglesby> I think the first step would be try and merge f18 into master, if that works then we have no issues.
14:19:00 <jjmcd> Don't know that that's the case, I should have been paying closer attention
14:19:13 <zoglesby> If not then we need to start cherry picking, and it will become harder
14:19:19 <jjmcd> zoglesby, not such a bad plan
14:19:27 <jjmcd> Then probably a good proofread
14:19:33 <zoglesby> +!
14:19:35 <zoglesby> or +1
14:21:06 <bcotton> so who wants ride herd
14:21:23 <claneys> I can gonna try to merge, it will be a good practive to git :)
14:21:25 <bcotton> wants to, even
14:21:30 <claneys> practice
14:21:59 <claneys> maybe need help, but i know that i can count on you :)
14:22:41 <bcotton> #info Commits have been made into the F18 branch of the RN (the workflow for RN is that all edits are made in master)
14:22:51 <jjmcd> zoglesby, in my experience, git problems can be fixed with a fresh clone or d/l a new cert
14:22:55 <bcotton> #action claneys to attempt a git merge
14:23:17 * jjmcd has to do the directory thing because probably nobody else can
14:23:18 <lnovich> good luck claneys
14:23:29 <claneys> lol thanks. ^^
14:24:50 <bcotton> jjmcd: the directory move for the installed RN?
14:24:59 <pkovar> you mean: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html-single/Release_Notes/index.html#sect-Release_Notes-Dir-Change
14:25:17 <pkovar> that's what i wanted to discuss now :-)
14:25:20 <jjmcd> bcotton, yes.  Don't think I will get to it this week tho, hard to tell.  This is the time of year of honeydos
14:25:59 <bcotton> #action jjmcd to update the install directory for the Release Notes
14:26:08 <bcotton> pkovar: discuss away
14:26:58 <pkovar> bcotton: just wanted to mention this during the meeting
14:27:03 <pkovar> ... that the rn package is probably the only one using that dir in fedora
14:27:15 * jjmcd was reluctant to do that earlier because ppl knew where to find RNs since ~FC3
14:27:16 <pkovar> i mean the HTML dir
14:27:25 <jjmcd> Yeah, used to be lots there
14:28:05 <jjmcd> In FC1 & 2, RN's were in the root of the install CD - probably the best place until we started doing umpteen languages
14:28:22 <jjmcd> So they moved to html where most docs were
14:28:48 <jjmcd> I assume that was the logic, I didn't get involved until F9 or F10
14:29:42 <jjmcd> But now we are alone :(
14:30:01 <pkovar> fwiw, i am talking to gnome people about improving desktop search (for docs & help) in f19+, so getting rid of the HTML dir could help here
14:30:31 <jjmcd> Well, we will still be alone.  /usr/share/docs is pretty much exclusively GPL copies
14:30:55 <pkovar> jjmcd: right, using /usr/share/help would be even better
14:31:27 <jjmcd> We used to have an xml there, until something happened with yelp, I don't even remember what now
14:31:30 <pkovar> but it has a slightly different hierarchy for translation dirs etc.
14:31:40 <jjmcd> yep, and we dealt with that
14:31:59 <jjmcd> 'Actually, a much more elegant solution than what we have now
14:32:24 <pkovar> was this related to this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop_Documentation_Presentation_Options
14:32:25 <pkovar> ?
14:32:32 <jjmcd> I think it may have been the publican conversion that moved us away from that
14:32:45 <pkovar> hm, ok
14:33:34 <zoglesby> jjmcd: I think it was the lack of support for non-gnome desktops, but I may be wrong
14:33:50 <jjmcd> zoglesby, that's right, that was an issue
14:34:10 <jjmcd> I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to also produce for KDE
14:34:23 <randomuser> pkovar, there has been discussion of making guides available as RPMs - it might be good to come to a consensus for their location in the filesystem
14:34:28 <jjmcd> And there was even an effort to merge khelpcenter with yelp
14:34:34 <pkovar> could probably talk to publican folks about using  /usr/share/help in the future... don't know much about KDE help
14:34:53 <jjmcd> But there seems to be little in the way of KDE resources to help
14:35:03 <pkovar> randomuser: yes, agreed
14:36:13 <jjmcd> Does yelp still use xml?  I thought it all converted to Mallard.  Which was another issue
14:36:30 <pkovar> jjmcd: mallard is still xml-based
14:36:41 <pkovar> not much changed actually
14:36:42 <jjmcd> but different
14:36:50 <pkovar> different markup, yes
14:37:02 <jjmcd> we would have to maintain two sources, or come up with a conversion
14:37:17 <pkovar> the locations are the same as with docbook help in gnome 2
14:37:36 <jjmcd> And as I recall, Mallard is not very document friendly.  Logic is around online help rather than a document
14:38:23 <pkovar> jjmcd: mallard is not that related to this discussion i think, the important thing is that yelp supports HTML
14:38:38 <pkovar> that is it can view our publican docbook guides
14:38:45 <pkovar> without major issues
14:39:02 <jjmcd> Ahh, that's an improvement.  It used to be hopeless with html
14:39:14 <pkovar> so that users could use a single app to view gnome & fedora docs
14:39:44 <pkovar> jjmcd: the html support is quite good now (thanks to webkit)
14:40:29 <jjmcd> And in principle it could deal with the languages for us instead of our current hack
14:40:41 <pkovar> jjmcd: yes
14:42:31 <pkovar> i think i will start a thread in publican list and cc doc list
14:42:35 <bcotton> so are we all set on RN for now?
14:42:40 <pkovar> to get things moving a bit
14:43:34 <bcotton> #topic Schedule and Guides
14:43:47 <bcotton> #link http://jreznik.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-docs-tasks.html
14:44:30 <bcotton> #info GA announcement due 18 December
14:44:42 <bcotton> #info Guide String Freeze deadline has passed
14:44:57 <bcotton> #info GA release is 8 January
14:46:01 <bcotton> anything on guide or the schedule?
14:46:58 * lnovich hears crickets
14:48:28 <bcotton> #topic Outstanding BZ tickets
14:48:33 <bcotton> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:49:44 <bcotton> #topic Open Floor discussion
14:51:30 <zoglesby> Anyone have docs related plans for FUDCon NA?
14:53:00 <bcotton> i guess not :/
14:54:19 <bcotton> #action bcotton to add FUDCon NA to the meeting agenda
14:54:25 <bcotton> last call
14:54:59 <pkovar> bcotton: one more thing
14:55:12 <bcotton> pkovar: go ahead
14:55:25 <pkovar> can you add  /usr/share/help to the meeting agenda as well? thanks
14:55:55 <pkovar> so that I don't forget
14:56:12 <bcotton> #action bcotton to add /usr/share/help to meeting agenda for pkovar
14:56:24 <pkovar> great :-.)
14:56:29 <pkovar> that's all from me
14:57:11 <bcotton> okay, thanks everyone!
14:57:13 <bcotton> #endmeeting