14:01:08 <randomuser`> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:01:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 28 14:01:08 2013 UTC.  The chair is randomuser`. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:22 <randomuser`> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:01:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:01:33 <randomuser`> #topic Roll Call
14:01:48 <randomuser`> Meeting.
14:02:05 <randomuser`> #chair Sparks
14:02:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks randomuser`
14:02:14 <randomuser`> #chair bcotton
14:02:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks bcotton randomuser`
14:03:43 * jjmcd 
14:03:44 * Sparks is here
14:03:54 * pkovar is here
14:03:56 <randomuser`> I only have mediocre hotel coffee to share today, you'll have to wake yourselves up
14:03:56 * bcotton_ is here
14:04:31 <pkovar> (but multitasking)
14:04:47 <bcotton> hooray! i'm me again!
14:04:48 * jjmcd is pretty well zombified this morning, pity about the coffee
14:06:10 <randomuser`> okay then, let's get started
14:06:27 <randomuser`> #topic Follow up on action items
14:06:59 <randomuser`> pkovar, any news on your front re: install directory?
14:07:20 <pkovar> i filed a bug at the end, let me find it
14:07:38 <pkovar> here we go: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=902500
14:07:46 <pkovar> docs list is CC'ed
14:08:03 <pkovar> more people are welcome to comment
14:08:09 <pkovar> etc. :-)
14:08:29 <randomuser`> #info pkovar filed https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=902500 and welcomes comments
14:08:50 * randomuser` CCs himself
14:09:28 <randomuser`> Thanks, pkovar
14:09:47 <pkovar> np
14:10:00 <pkovar> as i said in the bug, I opened this bug to track ideas
14:10:12 <pkovar> it's not an RFC (yet)
14:10:19 <pkovar> or RFE
14:10:26 <randomuser`> I added an "ARM" beat page to the beats list and created the empty page with template, with the hope that someone more qualified will take up the beat
14:11:20 <randomuser`> I also cleared out the status table and added 'unconfirmed' asterisks to the beats table - more on that later, i think
14:11:56 <randomuser`> Sparks, any news on publican 3 publishing?
14:12:54 <Sparks> randomuser`: No.  I need to follow up with RELENG
14:13:50 * pkovar wasn't successful with https://www.redhat.com/archives/publican-list/2013-January/msg00016.html
14:14:04 <randomuser`> Sparks, okay. Thanks for taking the lead on that
14:14:26 <pkovar> yes, thank you
14:15:49 <randomuser`> pkovar, it seems like runtime arguments for paths would be a good thing in publican for lots of reasons
14:16:05 <pkovar> randomuser`: yes
14:16:23 <pkovar> it looks lie it will be in the upcoming publican release though
14:16:29 <pkovar> * like
14:16:57 <pkovar> but atm we would need that in publican 2.8 :-)
14:17:05 <randomuser`> pkovar, so if that functionality is there, your issue becomes administrative for us?
14:17:32 <pkovar> randomuser`: the functionality will be there with the next release, 3.1 i believe
14:18:04 <pkovar> this is the bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=661946
14:18:25 <pkovar> see the target milestone
14:20:08 <randomuser`> pkovar, okay, a few pieces need to come together, then. Should we add this as a \#topic for future meetings?
14:21:19 <pkovar> not sure about that. focusing on fedora docs supporting publican 3 seems more important
14:21:40 <pkovar> my idea was just a temporary work-around
14:23:04 <randomuser`> I'll add publican 3 as a topic, then.
14:24:03 <randomuser`> iirc, there were changes that made publishing on our current platform not work with publican 3, so we're back to Sparks
14:24:16 <randomuser`> that should round off our action items list
14:24:32 <randomuser`> #topic Publishing docs with Publican 3 and koji
14:24:43 <randomuser`> #info Sparks is working on it
14:24:58 <randomuser`> #topic outstanding BZ tickets
14:25:10 <randomuser`> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:25:41 <randomuser`> We've got some bugs - any worthy of discussion?
14:27:29 <Sparks> .
14:27:55 <Sparks> I'm working on changing 'Fedora' to '&PRODUCT;' in the Security Guide
14:28:15 <Sparks> This should be done, wherever possible, in our guides to help downstream projects.
14:28:18 <Sparks> EOF
14:28:44 * randomuser` nods
14:29:46 <randomuser`> Post release seems like a good time to knock out some bugs - or at least low hanging fuit
14:30:57 <randomuser`> I'm going to get radical now and go to a topic I forgot to put on the agenda - brace yourselves
14:31:14 <randomuser`> #topic Beats status
14:31:44 <randomuser`> I know it's early, but I think we should start visiting the beats assignments and confirming them
14:32:17 <randomuser`> I'm really tempted to wipe the existing names instead of asterisking them
14:32:27 <jjmcd> That doesn't sound like such a bad plan.  But it does increase the odds of people's commitments changing between now and then
14:32:53 <Sparks> jjmcd: That might be okay...
14:33:09 <Sparks> If people start documenting now they may not forget things
14:33:31 <randomuser`> if they contribute to the beat early and drop off later, we'll still have *something*
14:33:37 <bcotton> also, i wonder how many people don't take an asterisked beat because they think the listed person will be along to claim it "any time now"
14:33:46 <randomuser`> bcotton, +1
14:33:53 <jjmcd> Yeah, both good points
14:34:41 <randomuser`> any against?
14:34:47 <bcotton> .
14:35:32 <bcotton> i propose that you give people a week or two to clear their own asterisk, after which, you clear still-asterisked names and send out another call for beat writers
14:35:52 <bcotton> that way, people have a chance to grab their old beats, but we still leave plenty of time for new blood to come along
14:35:55 <bcotton> eof
14:36:00 <randomuser`> worksforme
14:36:00 <jjmcd> nice
14:36:30 <randomuser`> it makes a good excuse for more signal on the topic, bonus!
14:36:54 <Sparks> heh
14:37:29 <randomuser`> I'm also going to suggest beats owners verify their technical contacts, perhaps solicit more devs to get involved
14:38:51 <randomuser`> moving on? should we talk about Zanata?
14:40:11 <randomuser`> #action randomuser to mail docs list about confirming beat assignments
14:40:34 <Sparks> What's Zanata
14:40:36 <Sparks> ?
14:41:21 <randomuser`> Sparks, it's a translation platform competing with Transifex. Don't you read our list!?
14:41:40 <Sparks> randomuser`: Yeah, I never remember what 'that other' platform is.
14:41:45 * Sparks has opinions
14:42:12 * randomuser` chuckles - I can guess what they are
14:42:24 * bcotton also has some
14:42:41 <pkovar> i will have a look into that issue with the IG. they seem  to experience some timeouts etc. when pushing IG files to Tx
14:42:49 <randomuser`> #topic zanata
14:42:52 <pkovar> but i can't promise anything
14:43:17 <pkovar> also i'm not the an IG maintainer, so...
14:43:20 <randomuser`> tx seems slow but consistent for me
14:43:31 <pkovar> heh
14:44:15 <pkovar> while transifex seems to work ok with most guides
14:44:16 <Sparks> I dislike using multiple tools for the same task.  It leads to confusion and a disjointed workflow.
14:44:26 <pkovar> (besides the lang code problem)
14:44:43 <pkovar> it seems to fail when managing guides like the IG
14:44:52 <Sparks> pkovar: Why?
14:45:02 <pkovar> with a large number of source files etc.
14:45:24 <pkovar> just read the filed bug report
14:46:04 <pkovar> also, in the thread there is a link to jack's explanation of things
14:46:15 <Sparks> interesting.
14:46:22 <pkovar> let me find it
14:46:32 <Sparks> I know the Security Guide has a lot of source files
14:46:48 <randomuser`> Sparks, the IG is absurdly fragmented
14:47:43 <randomuser`> It seems like we have two sets of choices
14:47:45 <Sparks> randomuser`: That should make it interesting to find things inside
14:47:47 <pkovar> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html
14:47:57 <randomuser`> lots of grepping, yeah
14:47:59 <pkovar> that's one of the relevant emails
14:48:04 <pkovar> ^
14:48:09 <randomuser`> 1. Do we help tx isolate the problem
14:48:12 <pkovar> well, it's all in the thread
14:48:19 <Sparks> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html
14:48:30 <randomuser`> 2. Do we want to impose tx on Jack if it is fixed
14:48:54 * randomuser` runs for a charger
14:50:36 <Sparks> It would seem that Jack only switched to Zanata as a technical solution to TX.  I think we should push TX to fix the issues.
14:50:41 <Sparks> s/push/lean on
14:51:58 <pkovar> i agree. since that issue hasn't been fixed yet, we can't be sure if the IG is manageable in TX at all.
14:52:54 <randomuser`> let's all keep the conversation with tx going, there are a few channels to influence on
14:53:15 <pkovar> it's probably more about the design / architecture, but can't be sure atm
14:53:16 <Sparks> randomuser`: Let's get the conversation going.
14:54:10 <randomuser`> Sparks, the conversation we're conversing of, or are you telling me to move the meeting along?
14:54:56 <Sparks> randomuser`: Ummm
14:55:32 <Sparks> randomuser`: I don't believe we have a running dialog going with TX.  We need to establish that conversation.
14:56:16 <randomuser`> #info We need to establish a feedback loop with transifex
14:56:59 <pkovar> glezos seems to be following the docs list...
14:57:18 <randomuser`> proposal: One of us should talk with Jack, try and reproduce the problems, and get a discussion going on the list
14:58:24 <pkovar> i will try to push the files to Tx some time this week
14:58:30 <pkovar> and report problems
14:58:46 <randomuser`> thanks, pkovar
14:59:13 <pkovar> tx push will probably take ages, but let's see
14:59:23 <randomuser`> #action pkovar to test push to tx, report problems
15:00:31 <randomuser`> pkovar, can you respond to the thread on the list as well, to make sure the tx folks know we have an interest their solution?
15:00:43 <pkovar> randomuser` sure, will do
15:00:55 <randomuser`> i think glesos fears a trend, which isn't what is going on at all
15:01:07 <pkovar> agreed
15:01:43 <randomuser`> This horse is starting to bruise, so...
15:01:58 <randomuser`> #topic Open Floor Discussion
15:02:19 * bcotton thinks we're cutting in on QA's meeting time
15:02:39 <randomuser`> indeed we are
15:02:52 * nb proposes we adjourn to #fedora-docs
15:02:55 <randomuser`> Open floor in #fedora-docs, then
15:03:01 <randomuser`> #endmeeting