14:00:54 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Feb 24 14:00:54 2014 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:54 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:54 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:00:54 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:01:23 * randomuser yawns
14:01:24 * roshi_ is here
14:01:27 * pbokoc 
14:01:33 * lnovich is here
14:01:45 * pkovar is here
14:01:51 * jhradilek hypnotizes his cup of coffee.
14:02:08 <pbokoc> he really is doing that, fyi
14:02:13 <randomuser> ^^ predator instincts, there
14:03:55 <randomuser> that's probably enough folks to get us started, thanks for coming
14:04:19 * randomuser knows how some people like to speak up just after roll call and won't keep them waiting
14:04:30 <randomuser> #topic New Writers
14:05:07 <randomuser> It doesn't look like we have any new writers attending
14:05:16 <lnovich> seems so
14:05:18 <randomuser> except perhaps mayorga ?
14:06:07 <randomuser> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_mentors
14:06:31 * Capesteve waves
14:06:36 <randomuser> #info New writers should complain more! let us know how you're settling in!
14:06:52 <lnovich> or question more
14:07:14 <randomuser> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_tasks
14:08:02 <randomuser> #info new writers also have the best perspective for faults in our process docs - so please ask questions if confused
14:09:02 <randomuser> Okay, let's move on to Guides
14:09:14 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status
14:10:28 <randomuser> so, any updates on guides?
14:10:57 * roshi has nothing
14:11:12 <pbokoc> nope, sorry
14:11:44 * lnovich runs and hides
14:12:53 <randomuser> Capesteve, how about the networking guide?
14:12:55 <Capesteve> I should have a buildable guide later tonight
14:13:11 <Capesteve> fixing links to sections etc
14:13:35 <Capesteve> I found out it was to difficult  to push one chapter at a time
14:14:33 <randomuser> Capesteve, are you still migrating content in? is it in a state where it makes sense to accept contributions?
14:15:08 <Capesteve> I will still be apply updates as more feedback comes in from developers
14:15:15 <Capesteve> and other technical reviewes
14:15:28 <Capesteve> but most of it ha been checked at least once
14:15:52 <Capesteve> separate chapters are OK if thats what you mean
14:16:18 <randomuser> I mean, can I send you patches or even commit directly without mucking up your plans and workflow
14:16:45 <randomuser> afaik, that's the state the sysadmin guide and lnovich's virt guide are in
14:17:34 <Capesteve> Please dont change chapters yet
14:18:28 <lnovich> what state?
14:18:51 <lnovich> my guide is not in any state
14:18:55 <randomuser> heh
14:19:11 <lnovich> it will be in about a month
14:19:15 <pbokoc> stateless guide, hehe
14:21:05 <randomuser> #info Networking Guide is in flux, hold off on contributions while Capesteve collects SME feedback and such
14:21:53 <randomuser> on to publishing, then?
14:22:39 <randomuser> #topic publican and publishing
14:22:49 <randomuser> are Sparks_ or nb around to comment on this?
14:22:55 <randomuser> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Automating_publishing
14:24:08 <lnovich> there are some really nice feature enhancements in publican 4 that should change some of the directions in the documentation guide
14:24:35 <randomuser> oh? I really liked the revision history bumping thing
14:25:24 <lnovich> i like the new way where you can implement the "change" from the command line and not have to open the revision_history.xml file at all
14:27:52 <randomuser> we'll leave publishing with rudi for now
14:28:24 <randomuser> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
14:28:35 <randomuser> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:28:39 <lnovich> i will give rudi a nudge if you want
14:28:57 <randomuser> sure, if you want
14:30:00 <lnovich> what do  you want me to nudge him about?
14:31:26 <randomuser> lnovich, the publishing process was on the table. I can poke him too
14:32:04 <lnovich> whatever you want to do - I have a meeting with him in 14 hrs
14:33:25 <randomuser> well, feel free to mention us, I guess
14:34:16 <randomuser> so... anyone want to talk about bugs?
14:34:43 <lnovich> they're ugly creepy crawly things that multiply
14:36:28 <randomuser> mhmm
14:36:34 <randomuser> #topic Release Notes
14:37:01 <randomuser> #action randomuser to clear beats wiki pages and send mails to various lists about them
14:37:33 <randomuser> We're starting to get bugs re: F21 changes, and the product changes will give us a lot to talk about too
14:37:56 <randomuser> so I'm thinking we should kick off the F21 RNs process early
14:38:17 <randomuser> There's going to be plenty of time to build the book, so there's no reason it can't be quite comprehensive
14:38:26 <lnovich> do we know if all guides will be supplied for all versions?
14:38:49 <randomuser> uhh.... what?
14:39:27 <lnovich> will there be a need to differentiate between versions?
14:39:55 <randomuser> it's early here, lnovich, can you provide some context for that question?
14:40:00 <lnovich> where some pacakges are supplied for one and not the other?
14:40:15 <pbokoc> as in, between the Server and Workstation and etc. variants in Fedora.next?
14:40:20 <randomuser> aahh
14:40:35 <lnovich> i don't want to have to use variables and conditional text
14:40:44 <randomuser> the packages will all be pulled from the same repo, but default configurations will vary
14:41:02 <randomuser> initial services, default packages, etc
14:42:05 <pbokoc> I don't think it will impact us very much. I mean, lnovich, you have experience with different variants in RHEL, right? There are like 4 or 5 variants, but we barely need to mention them since almost everything is the same across all variants
14:42:39 <lnovich> that may be true but KVM will have 2 variants
14:43:20 <randomuser> there's some talk about having a fedora-${product}-release type package whose dependencies are everything required for a server to be called "Fedora Server" etc
14:44:06 <randomuser> and apparently removing some of those dependencies will make it "not Fedora server" with some implied greater repercussions
14:44:35 <pbokoc> that sounds pleasant
14:44:40 * LoKoMurdoK here
14:44:46 * LoKoMurdoK late :(
14:44:52 <randomuser> hey, LoKoMurdoK
14:44:54 <pbokoc> :))
14:45:13 <lnovich> hello and welcome!
14:45:27 <randomuser> lnovich, you might consider picking a working group and following their activity, if you have the time
14:45:55 <lnovich> time is a commodity I don't trade in
14:46:04 <pbokoc> anyway, back to the original question - randomuser where do you see the change bugs? The Fedora 21 Change Set page still doesn't seem to be existing, are they just unorganized in Bugzilla?
14:46:12 <lnovich> not until April
14:46:41 <randomuser> pbokoc, no CHange proposals yet afaik
14:46:47 <sgallagh_> There will NOT be any packages that are unavailable for any of the variants
14:46:56 <sgallagh_> The Products refer to default package sets only
14:47:08 <randomuser> the schedule is on hold while there are process discussions
14:47:24 <pbokoc> aaaha
14:47:40 <randomuser> ^^ sgallagh_ , originator of the Products proposal
14:48:05 <pbokoc> well in that case - getting an early start at relnotes isn't really something we can do, is it? Since there's nothing to document right now
14:48:13 <randomuser> pbokoc, not true at all
14:48:33 <randomuser> there are always changes that aren't proposed as Changes
14:48:46 <randomuser> there's always far, far more that we miss than we cover
14:49:27 <randomuser> the last couple releases, we've mostly only covered Features/Changes because I was mostly the only one working on it, and also working 65-80 hrs/week $dayjob
14:49:38 <pbokoc> randomuser, well, yes, that's true.
14:50:05 <randomuser> so this extended release window gives us time to do more research, maybe even write some scripts to help
14:51:28 <pbokoc> what would help would be making people actually use the requires_release_note flag... I don't think I've ever seen that on + :I
14:51:59 <randomuser> yeah, it's pretty rare
14:52:18 <randomuser> we have gotten a couple bugs for F21 relnotes so far, though
14:52:27 <pbokoc> really? That's cool
14:53:05 <randomuser> iirc they were filed against release notes, not flagged, but i'll take it either way :)
14:53:34 <pbokoc> yeah :)
14:53:51 <pbokoc> do you have a BZ query for them somewhere handy?
14:54:33 <randomuser> pbokoc, nothing handier than the all-docs query linked earlier
14:55:07 <randomuser> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=997030 is one
14:55:31 <randomuser> or, he opened a new bug and linked to that
14:55:37 <randomuser> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1044359
14:56:24 <pbokoc> allright, we can work on that then
14:56:52 <randomuser> I'll send out some reminder mails to devel@, test@ soon
14:57:00 * pbokoc notes that there are no less than SEVEN separate components for Fedora Release Notes :O
14:57:38 <randomuser> lol, seven? I know there's the package and the guide; where are the other five from?
14:57:49 <lnovich> bugzilla is not very doc friendly when it comes to differentiating documentation and release notes
14:59:44 <randomuser> we're at the end of our hour
14:59:53 <pbokoc> Component: Docs Release Notes, docs-Release_Notes, Documentation-Release Notes, Documentation-Release_Notes, Release Notes, release-notes, Release_Notes
15:00:24 <randomuser> #fedora-docs is always open if anyone wants to continue the discussion
15:00:36 <pbokoc> well, we can continue in #&PRODUCT;-docs
15:01:19 <randomuser> har har
15:01:22 <randomuser> #endmeeting