14:00:43 <randomuser> #startmeeting Fedora Docs
14:00:43 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 29 14:00:43 2014 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:43 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:07 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:01:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:01:07 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:01:18 <randomuser> #info Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:01:21 <yruseva> meeeee
14:01:42 * jjmcd 
14:01:58 * pbokoc 
14:05:44 * Capesteve waves
14:06:02 <randomuser> Ok, now where are those minutes from last week...
14:06:35 <randomuser> oh, here
14:06:38 <jjmcd> Those minutes, like most past hours, lost forever
14:06:48 <randomuser> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:07:08 <randomuser> Three action items declared, all by me
14:07:44 <randomuser> I wrote an email that covers two, and will do the firewall guide this week
14:09:13 <randomuser> #topic F21 RNs, Beats, Schedule
14:09:27 * RogerBTX is present
14:09:42 <randomuser> If you read that mail, you'll know we're at the point of pulling the beats into git
14:09:55 <jjmcd> yikes
14:10:24 <randomuser> well, thursday is the scheduled date
14:10:53 <randomuser> but I think starting early will give us some extra time to improve while we mark up
14:11:56 <randomuser> #info Beats ( https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats?rd=Documentation_Beats ) are ready for markup
14:11:58 <pbokoc> a whole lot of change bugs are still on assigned or even new
14:12:16 <randomuser> #info remember to close wiki beats
14:12:25 <randomuser> yes, good point
14:12:45 <pbokoc> http://red.ht/1sPgI5t
14:12:49 <randomuser> #info Self Contained Changes have not been covered
14:13:32 <randomuser> I think a lot of this work has been done, but the wiki pages or bugs have not been updated. jreznik said he was going to be prodding them
14:14:03 <pbokoc> yeah, I think that's the case
14:14:46 <randomuser> #action randomuser to send mail to list about how to participate in wiki/docbook conversion
14:15:11 <pbokoc> yeah, also, randomuser did you see adamw's e-mail on the list?
14:15:18 <randomuser> yeah, I did
14:15:37 <randomuser> It reads to me like "Release Notes should be written sooner"
14:15:38 <pbokoc> I only skimmed it, but it looks like a request for, uh, release notes for release notes
14:16:42 <randomuser> I think the best thing we can do to address his concern is to be more dilligent about following the scheule, or even be ahead of it
14:16:58 <pbokoc> hmm, yeah
14:17:15 <randomuser> s/eu/edu/
14:17:36 <pbokoc> we could probably reword the header in the wiki if that's really necessary
14:18:01 <pbokoc> but generally I don't think we can do much - and I don't think "outsiders" (as Adam put it) even care about features before Alpha
14:18:06 <pbokoc> or even before Beta, really
14:19:27 <randomuser> well, let's take it back to the list
14:19:30 <pbokoc> yeah
14:20:05 <randomuser> #topic New Writers
14:20:20 <randomuser> RogerBTX, you are a new writer - how is it going?
14:20:42 <jreznik> randomuser: it should be updated based on bug content, let me rerun script
14:21:14 <RogerBTX> its going well so far
14:21:27 <RogerBTX> I am doing a LOT of learning :)
14:21:38 <RogerBTX> pbokoc, has been helping me a bunch
14:21:50 <randomuser> pbokoc, +1
14:21:56 * pbokoc bows
14:21:58 <RogerBTX> +1
14:22:51 <RogerBTX> I will be working on increasing my formatting skills and parting out the info in the UEFI-win to other sections this week
14:23:03 * RogerBTX is done
14:23:56 <randomuser> jjmcd, RogerBTX is using a fedorapeople remote on the multiboot guide to get used to git and communicate his patches
14:24:01 <randomuser> I rather like it
14:24:15 <jjmcd> Interesting
14:24:38 <jjmcd> A while back we were talking about sharing content between docs, have you investigated git submodules?
14:25:16 <randomuser> I haven't; honestly it sounds nice but I'm afraid that it would really ramp up the management overhead
14:26:17 <jjmcd> Doesn't look to me like it would be too bad, but I've only tinkered
14:26:43 <pbokoc> well, I don't know much about git submodules, but honestly sharing content between guides in general introduces a ton of other work - you have to write everything in an extremely modular way and that's just not always possible
14:26:56 <pbokoc> at least not without making the whole thing a lot harder to read
14:27:18 <randomuser> and then you have to keep track of what's in a copypasta repo that might fit your guide
14:27:24 <pbokoc> yeah, exactly
14:28:00 <jjmcd> It would only make sense for relatively large sections, but things like firewalld that need to be in multiple places it might work
14:28:08 <jjmcd> But certainly not for small bits
14:28:11 <randomuser> jjmcd, that said, you're welcome to take it to the next step and pencil out some implementation details :P
14:28:35 <pbokoc> I'm in favor of having anything in only a single place, and linking to that one place where relevant
14:28:37 <jjmcd> I might see some daylight week after SET
14:29:25 <randomuser> hey, we're talking about guides, i'll change the topic
14:29:31 <pbokoc> haha
14:29:31 <randomuser> #topic guide status
14:29:50 * pbokoc will spend this week writing the GUI install chapter of the install guide
14:30:18 <randomuser> pbokoc, there is some sense in predictably named includes for firewall content
14:31:12 <randomuser> <xi:include href="firewall-rules/httpd-firewall.xml" />
14:32:14 <pbokoc> randomuser, yeah, as long as it's really, really self-contained, and as long as you accept that you can't use any xrefs inside the module
14:32:27 <randomuser> let's... keep the potential use cases in mind when writing the firewall guide, i guess
14:32:54 <randomuser> Let's talk about specific guides now
14:33:04 <randomuser> Capesteve, are you working on anything that could use help?
14:33:26 <Capesteve> I am behind with my changes for the Sysadmin Guide
14:33:47 <Capesteve> There are some chapters that I might need help with
14:34:13 <Capesteve> I'll go through them and see
14:34:34 <Capesteve> I'll ping you Wednesday
14:35:17 <pbokoc> Capesteve, it might be a good idea to put together a list of tasks and it them to the list
14:35:23 <randomuser> cool, let us know
14:35:23 <randomuser> RogerBTX and I are working on the multiboot guide
14:35:23 <randomuser> roger is doing the windows specific section and some general stuff
14:35:42 <randomuser> and I was thinking of writing a short FAQ style thing to address common concerns, in the short term
14:36:10 <RogerBTX> yep. the guide is moving along nicely right now
14:36:25 <pbokoc> randomuser, yeah, that's always a good idea. I did something kind of like that in RHEL7 and people loved it
14:36:39 <randomuser> pbokoc, link?
14:37:12 <pbokoc> randomuser, https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html/Installation_Guide/chap-next-steps.html
14:37:39 <randomuser> nice
14:37:41 <pbokoc> it's not really a FAQ per se, but more like a list of things you'd want to do at a certain point
14:37:46 <pbokoc> and where to find out how to do them
14:38:00 <RogerBTX> pbokoc, you do nice work :)
14:38:22 <pbokoc> :) thanks
14:39:12 <randomuser> What other guide stuff?
14:40:17 <randomuser> oh, the firewall guide. I need to get the repo together then draft a basic structure; some help with the latter would be appreciated
14:40:28 <randomuser> I will probably harass Capesteve if I see him around
14:40:38 <Capesteve> Should be online most nights
14:41:04 <randomuser> great
14:41:24 <randomuser> lnovich, did you make it today?
14:41:27 <Capesteve> Its a matter of scanning the index of the Security guide and deciding what goes where
14:41:33 <randomuser> can we help with your guides?
14:42:08 <randomuser> #chair pbokoc
14:42:08 <zodbot> Current chairs: pbokoc randomuser
14:42:15 <RogerBTX> randomuser, multinoot: I would like to see the tree trimmed by you before I move stuff around...
14:42:25 <randomuser> RogerBTX, roger
14:42:29 <RogerBTX> s/multinoot/multiboot
14:42:54 <randomuser> #action randomuser to reshuffle section tree for multiboot guide
14:42:58 <lnovich> hey randomuser
14:43:02 <RogerBTX> In the mean time I will work on content and formatting
14:43:54 <lnovich> sorry I haven't been around much - between vacation and the Jewish holidays I just came back to work yesterday
14:44:25 <randomuser> ah, welcome back
14:44:32 <lnovich> thanks
14:45:24 <lnovich> wish I had what to report - but haven't been able to do much in Fedora Docs
14:45:32 <randomuser> let us know on the list if we can help anywhere, I guess
14:46:33 <lnovich> At this point if anyone wants to take over - feel free - I am swamped with other items at the moment
14:46:59 <randomuser> lnovich, is there a RHEL guide we should be aiming for parity with?
14:47:07 <randomuser> ...or RHEV, as the case may be
14:47:31 <lnovich> RHEV won't match too much - the RHEL virt guides are the thing to look at
14:47:44 <randomuser> I have another meeting to get ready for, so pbokoc will take the reins
14:48:05 <pbokoc> virt guides are here: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/#7_Virtualization
14:48:29 <pbokoc> heh, I didn't even realize there were four of them
14:48:50 <lnovich> yes but there are 2 very large and 2 small
14:49:09 <lnovich> and in 6.x there are 5
14:49:26 <pbokoc> heh
14:49:58 <pbokoc> well, anyway, lnovich, if you put together a task list and post it to the mailing list, maybe someone will find some time and contribute
14:50:02 <lnovich> it is the issue of which RHEL version maps to which Fedora version you need to worry about as 6x and 7x are very different
14:50:24 <lnovich> sure - has anyone done the beat work for it yet?
14:50:34 <pbokoc> current Fedora should be closest to RHEL7
14:50:42 <lnovich> as I was supposed to work on that as well and sadly can't at the moment
14:51:05 <pbokoc> virtualization beat is still unwritten, only a few notes there
14:51:12 <lnovich> I am now writing for both RHEL and RHEV so my down time is now 0
14:51:50 <pbokoc> lnovich, well... do you think you could find time for the beat, at least? You're the most knowledgeable around here as far as virtualization goes
14:52:19 <pbokoc> and we want to start moving beat content from the wiki to git later this week
14:52:22 <lnovich> I'll see if I can this week as more Jewish holidays will take up next week and the week after
14:52:44 <lnovich> as long as Cole Robinson sends me material I will be ok
14:52:48 <pbokoc> right :) well, let's hope it works out
14:52:52 <lnovich> I'll bug him this week
14:52:57 <pbokoc> cool
14:53:36 <pbokoc> #topic Open Floor Discussion
14:53:50 <pbokoc> ok, does anyone have anything else?
14:54:04 * RogerBTX nope
14:54:08 <lnovich> any plans for a FAD next yr like we had last yr?
14:54:19 <RogerBTX> whats FAD?
14:54:23 <pbokoc> lnovich, nothing as far as I know
14:54:28 <jsmith> Fedora Activity Day
14:54:29 <lnovich> Fedora Activity Day
14:54:32 <RogerBTX> ahh
14:54:43 <jsmith> lnovich: Nothing I'm aware of, but I'd be all for trying to organize something
14:54:43 <lnovich> I found it to be rather productive
14:54:46 <pbokoc> basically a bunch of contributors get together and... do stuff
14:55:01 <RogerBTX> cool
14:55:17 <lnovich> way too much food but very productive!
14:55:24 <Capesteve> yes
14:55:27 <pbokoc> oh yeah, the amount of food in Brno was crazy
14:55:42 <Capesteve> and to much chit chat in the USA section
14:55:46 <Capesteve> tooo
14:55:48 <pbokoc> heheh
14:55:51 <RogerBTX> that's where I want to go: Brno
14:57:03 <pbokoc> RogerBTX, the last time we had a FAD it was in two places - one group was in Brno and the other in Raleigh (I think); we communicated through a videoconference the whole time
14:57:16 <RogerBTX> interesting
14:57:47 <pbokoc> but if you want to come to Brno, noone's stopping you :) it's just that you probably wouldn't get your expenses covered
14:57:58 <pbokoc> but I honestly don't know how it works, my expenses were 0
14:58:00 <RogerBTX> I need to add another country to my list of 28
14:58:06 <RogerBTX> lol. np
14:58:08 <RogerBTX> :)
14:58:24 <pbokoc> if you do come here, then I hope you like beer :))
14:58:26 <lnovich> expenses were covered by the fedora foundation
14:58:30 <RogerBTX> hehehe
14:58:52 <lnovich> i found a really nice hotel nearby and flying via Vienna was super
14:59:10 <RogerBTX> yeah, but I bet its not *cold* beer like here...
14:59:29 <RogerBTX> lnovich, cool
14:59:32 <pbokoc> RogerBTX, of course it's cold! :)
14:59:36 <RogerBTX> lol
14:59:51 <RogerBTX> So, not like the Germans, eh?
15:00:03 <pbokoc> anyway, let's take this next door :)
15:00:07 <RogerBTX> ok
15:00:09 <pbokoc> #endmeeting