14:00:05 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct 13 14:00:05 2014 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:06 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:06 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:00:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:18 <randomuser> #chair pbokoc
14:00:18 <zodbot> Current chairs: pbokoc randomuser
14:02:27 <randomuser> umm
14:02:44 <bexelbie> how does one get on the meeting reminder from zodbot?  It is nice to get pulled in when I have time
14:03:11 * randomuser checks
14:03:21 <pbokoc> I'm here!
14:03:31 <donniezazen> Hi, I am attending the meeting for the first time. I am not a contributor at the moment.
14:03:44 * bexelbie only has 10 min :(
14:03:44 <pbokoc> hi donniezazen!
14:03:58 <donniezazen> hi back pbokoc
14:04:02 <randomuser> bexelbie, .PingLists add docsping in -docs
14:04:27 <randomuser> Hi donniezazen , glad you could come
14:04:48 <donniezazen> randomuser: I am glad too. Thanks.
14:05:11 * bara_ says hi
14:05:17 <randomuser> we have a short segment of the meeting for new folks, and after we can answer questions and talk in detail in #fedora-docs
14:05:33 <bexelbie> randomuser, ty
14:06:00 <randomuser> #topic New Writers
14:06:08 <randomuser> any new writers join today?
14:06:47 <donniezazen> Do you mean those who have already started contributing?
14:07:11 <randomuser> donniezazen, would you like to introduce yourself?
14:08:18 <randomuser> oh, tusharkumar is also a new writer. if you haven't encountered him yet, say hello sometime. He is really diving in
14:08:31 <donniezazen> This is Sudhir Khanger. I am a Fedora user. I have been since the release of F20. I have some time ago switched careers and I am trying to work on my own gigs as an Android developer. I am based in India.
14:09:18 <tusharkumar> Hello everyone!
14:09:53 <randomuser> welcome, Sudhir!
14:10:17 <randomuser> I won't dwell here, we have a lot to cover, but do visit us in #fedora-docs anytime
14:10:29 <randomuser> #Topic Release Note Beats
14:10:34 <donniezazen> I will do. Thanks.
14:10:39 <randomuser> #info schedule https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-21/f-21-docs-tasks.html
14:11:04 * jjmcd late
14:11:15 <randomuser> so today, according to the schedule, we have beta RNs done and all POTs in from l10n
14:11:48 <randomuser> so, we're behind there; I'll push POTs *out* today, but it won't be everything
14:12:13 <randomuser> there are still a lot of self-contained changes to cover, and in fact, today was the completion deadline for self contained changes
14:13:01 <randomuser> I think I'll talk to jreznik about adjusting our schedule to have content deadlines after the change deadline
14:13:23 <jreznik> give me date, I'll update it
14:13:23 <pbokoc> that does sound like a good idea
14:14:22 <pbokoc> so, if a change is still not on ON_QA tomorrow, we don't document it?
14:14:38 <randomuser> jreznik, it would involve a few items being shuffled, let us look it over and ping/mail you
14:14:47 <jreznik> sure
14:15:06 <randomuser> pbokoc, maybe.. some changes I looked at had last contact months ago, but they were *done* months ago too
14:15:27 <randomuser> IMO it's worth doing a little investigation regardless of the bug status
14:15:32 <pbokoc> right... well, damnit
14:16:13 <jreznik> pbokoc: I'm now pinging change onwers - usually, it goes to fesco for Wed meeting - and we always give some time to make sure all is up to date (aka 1 week more)
14:16:16 <randomuser> although we could play it that way, say "if you don't keep your change ticket up to date, you don't get the benefits of participating in the Change process"
14:16:28 <jreznik> randomuser: I take it this way
14:16:48 <jreznik> and one outcome is visibility through RN, if you don't play nice, sorry
14:17:43 <randomuser> jreznik, otoh, we want to find things to document that don't go through the Change process too. however much it's turned out to be "summary of release notes sections from Change pages" that isn't ideal
14:18:11 <randomuser> in any case, we're all hands on deck to churn out the remaining F21 content now
14:18:37 <randomuser> so please help if you can
14:19:08 <randomuser> any questions or concerns on beats?
14:20:23 <jreznik> randomuser: well, things out of Change process - no idea how to get there... that was the reason why we came with Self Contained changes to make it as easy as possible to participate but you know...
14:20:55 <randomuser> jreznik, I'll take any way they want to communicate RNs things they can find :)
14:21:07 <randomuser> #topic Publican/publishing
14:21:52 <randomuser> I haven't worked on this in a couple weeks, but Jeff Fearn, lead publican developer, did mail us with some suggestions
14:22:24 <randomuser> I'm hoping that is an indication that he might take a more active role in getting our site redeployment off the ground
14:24:04 <pbokoc> I'm kinda lost here. What's the actual plan now? Are we still going to have the new website on F21 release? And are we going to use koji for publishing, or are we going to keep doing the git thing with an outdated publican?
14:24:26 <randomuser> pbokoc, we want to do something different, as soon as we figure it out
14:24:45 <pbokoc> randomuser, Jenkins?
14:24:54 <randomuser> I haven't been able to figure it out...
14:25:17 <randomuser> pbokoc, if someone produces a viable alternative, I think it would be worth discussing :)
14:25:51 <pbokoc> randomuser, yeah, always... but I'm kinda concerned because F21 release is coming like a freight train...
14:25:55 <randomuser> yeah
14:26:39 <randomuser> pbokoc, I'll take another run at the koji site in the next couple days. Maybe I'll have to compromise and do some manual hacking to make it work
14:27:05 <pbokoc> randomuser, unfortunately I can't help you here, this is completely beyond me
14:28:17 <randomuser> it's a cascading thing; something doesn't work, so it [appears] you have to make a change to the publican brand's spec file template, then use that to rebuild the brand, then rebuild the landing page with the new brand, then rebuild packages, then find out "no, that wasn't the right place to make a change, or maybe it was the wrong change in the right place" and you start over with rebuilding the whole stack
14:28:37 * pbokoc 's head explodes
14:29:00 * zoglesby_work is late
14:29:00 <randomuser> ... I don't want to take up meeting time ranting, just bring everyone up to speed with the situation as it stands
14:29:08 <randomuser> hey zoglesby_work
14:29:26 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status
14:29:39 <randomuser> How are we on guides?
14:29:56 * jhradilek just started paying attention to this channel.
14:30:10 <pbokoc> I finally started working on rewriting the anaconda chapter, but it's taking me forever
14:30:23 <zoglesby_work> I had a huge update to the ARM Guide this weekend thanks to bemk, but I don't think I will have the rest of the guide ready for F21
14:30:46 <randomuser> zoglesby_work, i saw that, very nice :)
14:31:07 <pbokoc> I want to finish this week though, and after that's done the IG will almost be publishable
14:31:13 <pbokoc> kudos to zoglesby :)
14:31:39 <randomuser> pbokoc, want to try some git submodules for the media creation content?
14:31:43 * randomuser ducks
14:32:05 <pbokoc> I, err... :-D
14:32:17 <bara_> I've started to work on the SELinux guide  but there are a lot of things to do
14:32:43 * pkovar is late to the party
14:32:55 <pbokoc> randomuser, I honestly don't really know what they are, I just vaguely remember it was somehow connected to modular content
14:33:01 <randomuser> bara_, that one is a moving target, I don't envy you. Do you have a task list, or set of bugs people can assign to themselves?
14:33:12 <tusharkumar> randomuser: Would you like to mention systemd guide?
14:33:17 <randomuser> tusharkumar, probably :)
14:33:37 <pkovar> modular content? ;)
14:33:49 <randomuser> pbokoc, folder inside git repo contains another git repo, not too complicated
14:33:59 <pkovar> ah, submodules?
14:34:00 <pbokoc> right
14:34:15 <randomuser> maybe firewall stuff would be a better testcase
14:34:19 <bara_> randomuser, not really, I've just created the book from RHEL7 guide and now I need to have a meeting with Mirek Grepl to point to someone who can be able to point what is different in Fedora and RHEL.. I could then create some bugs according to this
14:34:38 <zoglesby_work> randomuser: do you have a box that can publish the current docs site?
14:34:39 <pbokoc> randomuser, I don't think I'll have a chance to start doing that now, but if you're going to do media creation and you want to do that, go right ahead :))
14:34:44 <bara_> *to point me
14:35:08 <randomuser> zoglesby, not at the moment, but I still have F18 on my local mirror and can spin up a guest for that quickly enough
14:35:36 <randomuser> bara_, sounds like a solid plan.
14:35:51 <zoglesby_work> randomuser: I want to publish the ARM Guide to draft docs, but I don't have a machine that can do so
14:36:12 <zoglesby_work> Another reason why we need to get the new site up and running
14:36:13 <randomuser> zoglesby_work, pkovar might help, he did the last few?
14:36:16 <pbokoc> pkovar, do you still have that F18 VM that can publish books? :)
14:36:29 <randomuser> zoglesby, you just missed that topic :P
14:37:25 <bara_> randomuser, well I hope I will have more details next week
14:37:29 <randomuser> cool
14:37:32 <pkovar> i'm terribly busy atm but should be able to help. i would however strongly prefer to see us migrating to a supported publishing platform
14:37:44 <randomuser> pkovar, agreed
14:37:54 <pbokoc> amen
14:37:57 <zoglesby_work> +100
14:38:15 <randomuser> I tossed out the idea of a systemd container guide, and there was some interest and no objections, so that might happen sometime soon
14:38:21 <zoglesby_work> pkovar: no worries, it can wait
14:38:38 <randomuser> tusharkumar wants to work on it
14:39:24 <pkovar> zoglesby_work: send me a link to the repo and the branch, i will see what i can do
14:39:46 <zoglesby_work> pkovar: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/docs/ARM-getting-started-guide.git/
14:39:48 <zoglesby_work> master
14:39:55 <pkovar> ok
14:40:17 <randomuser> I might make a VM available on request for this kind of thing
14:40:29 <pkovar> if it builds, i will publish it :)
14:40:37 <randomuser> zoglesby_work, remind me I said that if it doesn't happen soon :)
14:40:39 <zoglesby_work> pkovar: but its not pressing, I only want to get it posted so that I can try and get others to help work on it once they see it is real
14:40:49 <pkovar> sure
14:41:21 <zoglesby_work> pkovar: yeah, I am not sure if it builds or not, but don't spend any time on it is it won't build
14:42:55 <randomuser> #info lots of guide talk, read the full logs for details
14:43:19 <randomuser> anything else before we move on?
14:43:26 <tusharkumar> randomuser: Already doing my research on systemd. Will send a draft in couple of days. :)
14:43:52 <tusharkumar> first of many drafts :P
14:44:21 <randomuser> tusharkumar great - we're talking about systemd _containers_, right?
14:44:37 <randomuser> not general interest systemd?
14:45:15 <tusharkumar> Specific topic within specific topic. I was talking about general interest systemd.
14:46:11 <randomuser> General systemd content would probably belong in the System Administrators Guide
14:46:21 <pbokoc> yep, definitely
14:46:35 <pkovar> right
14:46:43 <randomuser> tusharkumar, I suggest you clone that guide and look it over, talk to jhradilek or Capesteve about working on it
14:47:18 <tusharkumar> Sure
14:47:53 <Capesteve> Systemd Chapter is pretty good already is it not?
14:47:56 <tusharkumar> randomuser: Who knows this specific topic will emerge from that Sys Admin guide :)
14:48:24 <randomuser> tusharkumar, yes, my intent was to create a guide to specifically address systemd-nspawn container management
14:48:30 <pbokoc> Capesteve, not in Fedora...
14:48:36 <jhradilek> Yup.
14:48:39 <jhradilek> My fault.
14:48:46 <Capesteve> ahh, yes
14:48:48 <jhradilek> I have it on my TODO list.
14:49:12 <pbokoc> anyway the thing is, we already have extensive systemd documentation in Red Hat docs, the only problem is we need to transfer it to the Fedora Sysadmin Guide
14:49:14 <Capesteve> So, please hold off untill jhradilek updates it
14:49:20 <pbokoc> but it's already written
14:49:47 <Capesteve> I am working through the chapters but some belong to jhradilek
14:49:52 <randomuser> jhradilek, Capesteve - your thoughts on a container guide?
14:49:59 <randomuser> hold off on that as well?
14:50:36 <Capesteve> no opinion as I am not familiar with that
14:50:45 <pbokoc> I think the current docs don't cover containers, so if tusharkumar wants to work on that, it's fine
14:50:51 * randomuser nods
14:50:52 <jhradilek> Nod.
14:51:03 <randomuser> ok
14:51:10 <tusharkumar> Sure
14:51:46 <randomuser> I think we've covered guides well for today; please remember to use bz or wiki task lists to give other contributors a place to pick up some work
14:51:59 <randomuser> #topic Open Floor
14:52:34 <pbokoc> oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: vpodzime's Anaconda Addon Development Guide is probably going to move into the Installation Guide, I'll make an appendix out of it if nobody objects
14:52:58 <randomuser> pbokoc, so much for trimming it down :)
14:53:13 <pbokoc> randomuser, oh don't worry, it's still going to be trimmed all right :))
14:53:51 <randomuser> pbokoc, is vpodzime still going to maintain it?
14:53:52 <pkovar> randomuser: there have been conversations about containers, docker, etx. docs in env-stack WG. check out their ML archive for details
14:54:26 <randomuser> pkovar, sure, will do. I think i'm subscribed, but, you know, lots of subscriptions :)
14:54:49 <pkovar> randomuser: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2014-October/000553.html
14:54:53 <pbokoc> randomuser, well, yeah. I'll keep it under my wing but I'll pester him to update it before every release
14:55:04 <pkovar> people seem to have some initial material written
14:55:14 <pkovar> now the Q is where to publish it
14:55:26 <pkovar> they don't want to bother with XML and publican
14:55:54 <pkovar> so they are looking into alternatives
14:56:00 <randomuser> pkovar, well, we currently don't have anything to offer them, then, other than assistance creating a fork they don't want to maintain :(
14:56:07 <pkovar> --> modular content ;)
14:56:16 <jhradilek> *cough* jenkinscat *cough*
14:56:17 <jhradilek> :P
14:56:38 <pkovar> randomuser: right. jenkinscat might be the answer
14:57:01 <randomuser> do we know what's needed to make that work, jhradilek ?
14:57:18 <zoglesby_work> what is jenkinscat?
14:58:00 <pbokoc> jhradilek just ran off somewhere
14:58:23 <randomuser> zoglesby, git release branch -> jenkins -> jenkinscat frontend -> varnish. No publishing action required outside of committing to release branch, builds anything
14:58:24 <pkovar> a jenkins-based build system for any docs
14:58:39 <jhradilek> randomuser: Well, we need to figure out that Jenkins support thing.
14:58:49 <randomuser> oh, the packaging, right
14:58:51 <pkovar> very lightweight compared to koji
14:58:58 <jhradilek> And very flexible.
14:59:40 <threebean> not sure if it's been discussed before, but we have a fledgling jenkins instance over here that might be able to be used -> http://jenkins.cloud.fedoraproject.org
14:59:41 <randomuser> jhradilek, any contact with the jenkins maintainer? I though about it, when I just documented the Jenkins CHange in the RNs
15:00:09 <randomuser> threebean, nirik said we have to get it more infra-compliant before we can use it for production
15:00:17 * threebean nods
15:00:29 <pbokoc> I think we should move to #fedora-docs
15:00:30 <threebean> makes sense, yes.
15:00:31 <randomuser> let's cede to qa, move to -docs
15:00:36 <randomuser> #endmeeting