14:03:18 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:03:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 28 14:03:18 2016 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:03:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:03:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs_project_meeting_-_agenda:_https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/docs_project_meetings'
14:03:18 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:03:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:03:18 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:04:28 * Capesteve waves
14:05:05 <randomuser> good day to you, Capesteve
14:05:18 <Capesteve> GDTY too
14:05:35 <shaunm> quack
14:06:18 * pbokoc 
14:06:40 <randomuser> #info Participants are reminded to make liberal use of #info #link #help in order to make the minutes "more better"
14:09:04 <randomuser> #topic New Writers
14:09:26 <randomuser> any newer folks with questions they'd like to get out of the way?
14:11:53 <shaunm> quiet morning
14:12:04 <randomuser> indeed
14:12:50 <randomuser> no action items from last week, so
14:13:00 <randomuser> #topic Where are with the Release Cycle and Docs
14:13:19 <randomuser> #info F25 GA release is out, stuff was published
14:13:37 <randomuser> #action randomuser to publish available translations
14:13:45 <Southern_Gentlem> ?
14:13:51 <randomuser> because that still needs to be done
14:14:27 <randomuser> yes, Southern_Gentlem ?\
14:15:01 <Southern_Gentlem> if possible can the release notes and installation guide be published at least a week before release ?
14:15:24 <randomuser> not retroactively, no
14:15:46 <randomuser> the schedule does want us to publish sooner, fwiw
14:16:36 <Southern_Gentlem> we get a lot of questions from people the week before in the #fedora channel
14:16:50 * randomuser nods
14:17:28 <randomuser> Southern_Gentlem, that's good feedback, we'll make an effort to publish sooner next cycle.
14:18:58 <randomuser> there's also pagure issues for any content issues, feel free to direct people there for requests and such
14:20:24 <randomuser> I think the specific doc topic will be just as lively...
14:20:47 <randomuser> is there anything in particular the attendees today would like to discuss?
14:21:11 <pbokoc> *crickets*
14:21:51 <pbokoc> I mean... f26 is supposed to be the release where we switch to asciidoc and a new website, isn't it?
14:22:07 <randomuser> ahyup
14:22:16 <pbokoc> we should probably make some sort of a plan for that
14:22:38 <randomuser> #topic Publishing Plan
14:22:58 <randomuser> I wanted to do asciidoc conversion first, personally
14:23:46 <randomuser> it seems like a more productive activity than coding the tools
14:23:51 <randomuser> ...for me
14:23:58 <shaunm> it is
14:24:09 <pbokoc> so we'd convert book sources to asciidoc, but publish by getting docbook output from that and then with publican still?
14:24:27 * randomuser gulps
14:24:31 <randomuser> i hope not!
14:25:05 <shaunm> I recommend picking one document and working at it, and not just doing a simple format conversion, but really thinking about a topic-based structure
14:25:20 * randomuser nods
14:26:02 <shaunm> and not the install guide
14:26:12 <randomuser> there are apparently some holes in the format conversion tools, bexelbie came up with a list, basically what's on pkovar's blog article from back when
14:26:26 <pbokoc> well the thing is, if we move to topics, we'll need to figure out some sort of content map - what topics we need, what would be nice to have, how they relate to each other
14:26:40 <randomuser> so i have at least identified such things and started on regexing them out
14:27:02 <randomuser> pbokoc, enter sgilson?
14:27:37 <randomuser> maybe I should email him out of band and see if he's still on board for strategizing
14:28:57 <randomuser> well, anyway, I'm wary of trying to get to meta about it
14:29:14 <randomuser> there's existing content I'm sure can be categorized quite intuitively
14:30:09 <pbokoc> yeah, I think that's where we should start. Split existing content into self-contained chunks in separate topics/articles/whatever and string them together
14:31:08 <bexelbie> .hello bex
14:31:09 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
14:31:11 * bexelbie is sorry for being late
14:31:29 <randomuser> welcome, bexelbie
14:32:44 <bexelbie> I am wondering if we should see if each doc has an owner who wants to make it into topics
14:32:56 <bexelbie> for those folks we could have them work together on a single doc to get a feel for the process
14:33:08 <bexelbie> then tools people could work with that docs while the owners organize the rest
14:33:09 <randomuser> hm
14:33:16 <bexelbie> for docs with no converter we could just convert them to asciidoc as is
14:33:21 <bexelbie> or decide if we need to keep them at all
14:33:30 <bexelbie> that way we get all content to asciidoc and have two teams strategizing
14:33:41 <bexelbie> I do not mean to say owners should do all the work for their doc, but should def organize it
14:34:06 <bexelbie> eom
14:34:30 <randomuser> I'm also wary of making plans that involve participation not volunteered...
14:34:33 <pbokoc> most docs have "owners" who aren't active...
14:34:52 <zoglesby> its a good time to clean that list
14:34:59 <zoglesby> (I AM ALIVE)
14:35:11 <randomuser> so I can make plans like "I am willing to work on content conversion" and generally understand what else needs to happen
14:35:37 <bexelbie> I would not voluntell anyone - agreed
14:35:48 <bexelbie> I think conversion organizers need to step up ... and cleaning the list is good per zoglesby
14:36:10 * terminal__ is here now also, apologies for lateness, but i've read the meeting up to this point also
14:36:25 <randomuser> I'm just glad zoglesby survived that ferris wheel incident
14:36:42 <Luc__> hello,
14:36:49 <Luc__> my first time meeting in this list
14:37:27 <randomuser> Hello Luc__
14:37:41 <randomuser> zoglesby, clean the list, how?
14:37:52 <Luc__> if I want to modify content of wiki
14:37:53 <Luc__> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScreenCasting#Using_Gnome.27s_embedded_screencast_tool
14:38:00 <Luc__> is that part of scope of this group?
14:38:06 <zoglesby> So we need to put together a "final" conversion tutorial, and then ask people to start working?
14:38:31 <Luc__> or just the fedora documentation? https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/index.html
14:38:47 <zoglesby> randomuser: find out if people are still willing to own guides, find new owners for guides that need them discontinue guides that we can't support
14:38:51 <randomuser> Luc__, the wiki is a collaborative effort of everyone in Fedora, but not a specific charge of Docs
14:39:12 <Luc__> so it will just be a docs.fedoraproject rithg
14:39:43 <Luc__> ok, I need to understand what the group is doing first... I will read archive
14:39:53 <randomuser> ok
14:40:18 <randomuser> our active guide owners are basically Capesteve and pbokoc
14:40:21 <shaunm> I think you need to work your way through one first before you can write a tutorial for others
14:40:37 <zoglesby> very true, good call
14:41:01 <randomuser> #chair pbokoc zoglesby shaunm
14:41:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: pbokoc randomuser shaunm zoglesby
14:41:04 <pbokoc> sysadmin guide is a prime candidate for that
14:41:07 <bexelbie> I agree with shaunm on having one doc worked first - but I think it is critical that active guide owners who want to own topic based conversions participate int hat
14:41:20 <randomuser> I'm going to need to part for a commute soon
14:41:59 <Luc__> another quick, I request to join this group but not accepted yet. Who can help me?
14:42:00 <shaunm> do you want me to take one over?
14:42:12 <shaunm> or work in pair with an existing guide owner?
14:42:21 <randomuser> sure, shaunm, participation welcome
14:43:06 <bexelbie> I think you helping drive the topic conversion is a huge help shaunm
14:43:42 <randomuser> there's a relatively well known set of tasks available, I don't want folks to be roadblocked because we're not giving specific instructions for how to go about them
14:43:57 <bexelbie> Luc__, those tasks are places where you can start
14:44:11 <randomuser> or, are we thinking that if there's a procedural checklist people will show up to complete it?
14:44:12 <bexelbie> Luc__, there isn't a formal "you're in" process - we accept all contributors
14:44:39 <shaunm> is there a list of guides with owners? pretty sure there is on the wiki
14:44:48 <shaunm> guessing somebody has the link handier than my searching
14:45:22 <randomuser> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_admin_notes
14:45:40 <randomuser> the table is an include, that's just the page I had up
14:46:03 <randomuser> oh, the links on that need to be updated to pagure
14:46:49 <randomuser> Luc__, that would be easy to pick up, if you're interested
14:46:53 <zoglesby> another option is the security guide, sparks has said he is ready to work on it when we give him the go, and I think he has the support of his boss at rh.
14:47:22 <Luc__> thanks, I will read and follow
14:47:34 <randomuser> neat
14:48:30 <shaunm> zoglesby: doesn't look like we've published the security guide in a few releases
14:48:57 <shaunm> since F19 in fact
14:49:09 <terminal__> is that table accurate in terms of releases they apply to?
14:49:17 <randomuser> okay, i have to go, someone can close out the meeting?
14:49:38 <randomuser> terminal__, no, the table is not up to date in that regard
14:49:49 <terminal__> ah ok
14:49:54 <shaunm> I'm just going on what I see published on docs.fp.o
14:50:30 <Luc__> I got blocked by CLA+1, I ask some group but not pass through
14:50:34 <Luc__> not even able to edit wiki now
14:50:59 <zoglesby> maybe the best bet is to post to the list and ask if any doc owners want to work with shaunm to convert there doc as a first run?
14:51:16 <randomuser> Luc__, right, i guess there were spam issues or something so they upped requirements for wiki edits
14:51:16 <shaunm> zoglesby: I was just halfway through typing the same thing :)
14:51:38 <zoglesby> you want to take that action item?
14:51:45 <shaunm> yeah, I can do that
14:51:48 <randomuser> i'm going to go ahead and assume that one of the chairs can #endmeeting when the time comes
14:52:01 * randomuser &
14:52:21 <zoglesby> #action shaunm to mail the list to find a doc owner to work with on conversion
14:52:27 <bexelbie> Luc__, perhaps you could start with a documentation contribute via pagure.io that would earn the docs group which would put you at CLA+1
14:52:42 <bexelbie> Luc__, otherwise I suggest you approach commops if you are interested in only working on the wiki
14:54:05 <shaunm> anything else?
14:55:42 * bexelbie is good with this plan - lets move forward with hopefully a team starting on topic conversion by next week
14:56:54 <shaunm> ok
14:57:06 <shaunm> zoglesby: want to end the meeting?
14:57:18 <zoglesby> #endmeeting