18:00:44 <stickster> #startmeeting Fedora Insight
18:00:44 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jun  3 18:00:44 2010 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:44 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:47 <stickster> #meetingname Fedora Insight
18:00:47 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_insight'
18:00:53 <stickster> #chair rbergeron wonderer smooge
18:00:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: rbergeron smooge stickster wonderer
18:00:56 * rbergeron is here
18:00:58 <stickster> #chair gwerra
18:00:58 <zodbot> Current chairs: gwerra rbergeron smooge stickster wonderer
18:01:04 <stickster> #topic Roll call!
18:01:05 * stickster 
18:01:09 * ke4qqq 
18:01:09 * rbergeron 
18:01:16 <rislam> rislam
18:02:13 <smooge> sort of here
18:02:14 <smooge> sorry
18:02:15 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Meeting_agenda <-- Agenda
18:02:27 <stickster> #topic Action items from last meeting (2010-05-27)
18:03:14 <stickster> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mktg/2010-05-27/fedora_insight.2010-05-27-18.00.html <-- Last meeting minutes
18:03:41 * stickster deployed the patch as needed, but failed to notify rbergeron explicitly before going on PTO for the holiday
18:04:10 <rbergeron> I can test fairly quickly - I just need pt6 up. :)
18:04:28 <stickster> Let's check in with smooge on his action items first, we'll definitely cover that shortly :-D
18:04:43 <stickster> smooge: Did you guys do a copy of the DB to stg.fp.o to see how things held up?
18:04:55 <smooge> no I have not yet.
18:05:20 <smooge> We are updating the database on stg to a newer version of postgres first it would seem
18:05:24 <stickster> Ah
18:05:28 <stickster> smooge: Any timeline for that?
18:05:36 <smooge> I think that is done as of yesterday
18:05:48 <smooge> today would be a fresh dump and transfer
18:05:57 <stickster> Cool, maybe we can work on that after this meeting?
18:06:10 * stickster has two calls coming up starting at 3:30, though
18:06:40 * gwerra is lurking around, busy with $dayjob
18:07:07 <stickster> well, moving on then
18:07:31 <stickster> smooge: I know you sent me email earlier about the difference in content between what's in /usr/share/zikula on pt6.fp.o and on stg.fp.o
18:07:39 <stickster> I recall you said it was... substantial
18:08:00 <smooge> stickster, todyay is meeting day. I have to deal with 3 more meetings I htink
18:08:07 <smooge> the diffs were substantial
18:08:17 <stickster> smooge: Wow, lucky you
18:08:26 <smooge> The code on pt6 is vastly different from git checkout
18:08:35 <stickster> smooge: I have a much better schedule tomorrow, should we set up for then?
18:09:06 <smooge> stickster, I am good tomorrow except for 1.5 hours of taking family to airport for their trip to DC.
18:09:23 <stickster> smooge: OK, let's figure it out after this meeting then, sounds like we can do some good work then.
18:09:32 <stickster> #info stickster made patch as needed
18:09:48 <smooge> I need to look at the stg.fp.o code also to see how it differes
18:10:08 <stickster> #info smooge advises postgresql has been updated on stg.fp.o, now we are OK to copy DBs, once we figure out diffs in the Zikula code that's deployed on stg.fp.o.
18:10:12 <smooge> it looks like both have been edited 'live' somewhat so I am not sure how 'production' ready it is
18:10:24 <stickster> smooge: That's what I was afraid of. Now you see why I wanted to check it. :-)
18:10:58 <stickster> smooge: I believe we're going to find that pt6 is the more reliable copy.
18:11:23 <stickster> #info stickster thinks that pt6.fp.o is the more reliable, up to date source for our code
18:11:25 <smooge> ah ok it still needs a bunch checked into git then and a 'rebuild'
18:12:06 <stickster> smooge: We can always catch stuff from stg.fp.o in its own git branch if needed, just for safety
18:12:27 <stickster> smooge: There was one more action item you jointly held with ke4qqq, which was figuring out the packaging problems for Zikula's /install directory.
18:12:37 * ke4qqq just added stickster and smooge to fedora-zikula - so commit as needed.
18:12:38 * stickster sorry smooge got smacked with all the action items
18:12:44 <stickster> ke4qqq: Superb!
18:12:53 <smooge> stickster, I am meeting with ke4qqq after this meeting to go over zikula stuff
18:13:02 <stickster> Well, superb, then!
18:13:14 <stickster> Let's move on in that case
18:13:22 <smooge> action item on multiple zikula test-frames will require us to redo our work method.
18:13:50 <stickster> smooge: I figured as much -- we should probably document that on the [[Insight]] wiki page so everyone knows how to do business from here on out.
18:14:06 <stickster> It's going to apply regardless of platform so we can continue using that for posterity
18:14:49 <smooge> currently we play with stuff live in /usr where we would need to create seperate 'branches' in say /srv/web/zikula/[branch]. I need to check with abadger, ricky,mmcgrath to make sure that is our work method versus something I am remembering from some other job
18:15:27 <stickster> #action smooge and ke4qqq to document how work methods for code changes, testing, deployment should work for the foreseeable future on [[Insight]]
18:15:43 <stickster> Oops, I forgot to #topic us out of the action items.
18:15:44 <stickster> #undo
18:15:44 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2b7ad7255d50>
18:15:51 <stickster> #topic Testing and progress
18:15:56 <stickster> #action smooge and ke4qqq to document how work methods for code changes, testing, deployment should work for the foreseeable future on [[Insight]]
18:16:01 <rbergeron> how will that affect my testing stuff exactly?
18:16:05 <rbergeron> or is that TBD :)
18:16:07 <stickster> rbergeron: Not at all really
18:16:10 <rbergeron> okay.
18:16:14 * rbergeron just checking
18:16:27 <stickster> rbergeron: You'll be able to continuously test on pt6, but once things have been copied, you'll be able to re-run and verify on the stg.fp.o host.
18:16:35 <rbergeron> okay.
18:16:42 <smooge> rbergeron, TBD, it may change the url on pt6 a bit. Nothing on stg
18:16:47 <rbergeron> is stg.fp.o also linked to pt3/accounts?
18:16:57 <stickster> rbergeron: Negatory, stg.fp.o is linked to the real FAS
18:17:00 * rbergeron notes that pt6 and pt3 are not accessible via web atm.
18:17:24 * smooge wonders if updates messed with things
18:17:34 <stickster> rbergeron: Thanks, that's a great segue -- smooge, there's a problem with Apache on at least pt6 (maybe others)
18:17:40 <stickster> Starting httpd: Syntax error on line 8 of /etc/httpd/conf.d/nagios.conf:
18:17:40 <stickster> Invalid command 'AuthUserFile', perhaps misspelled or defined by a module not included in the server configuration
18:18:16 <smooge> hmmm well darn.
18:18:21 <stickster> smooge: Shall I paste that in #fedora-admin?
18:18:21 <smooge> I will have to go dig into that one
18:18:31 <stickster> That way someone can look at it while you're here, if they're free
18:18:46 <smooge> paste with context into fpaste.org and then that URL into fedora-admin
18:18:49 <rbergeron> pt3 can be added to that list :)
18:19:02 <rbergeron> although known if it's the same problem
18:19:19 <rbergeron> but no apache running
18:20:31 <stickster> Different problem on pt3 apparently :-)
18:20:50 <rbergeron> stickster: so bottom line is - i'll continue testing test list items on [Fedora_Insight_Testing] on pt6 - and at some point then stg.fp.o
18:21:10 <rbergeron> s/continue/start
18:21:13 <rbergeron> i suppose i should say
18:21:30 <rbergeron> and will someone tell me when stg.fp.o is ready to be tested on :)
18:21:31 <stickster> rbergeron: Right
18:21:42 <stickster> rbergeron: smooge will tell you when stg.fp.o is ready
18:21:44 <rbergeron> do we have the appropriate FAS groups set up in RealFAS?
18:21:55 * rbergeron can check but doesn't know offhand
18:22:11 <rbergeron> .fasinfo rbergero
18:22:12 <zodbot> rbergeron: User: rbergero, Name: Robyn Bergeron, email: robyn.bergeron@gmail.com, Creation: 2008-06-03, IRC Nick: rbergeron, Timezone: US/Arizona, Locale: en, Extension: 5107194, GPG key ID: , Status: active
18:22:13 <stickster> rbergeron: I think we do, but worth checking
18:22:16 <zodbot> rbergeron: Approved Groups: @cmswriters @cmseditors ambassadors @fedoraldc sysadmin-test +marketing cla_fedora cla_done +ols
18:22:32 <smooge> okie dokie
18:22:55 <stickster> rbergeron: Yup, and cmsadmin works too
18:23:06 <rbergeron> it's been so long, i can't even remember if we are keeping multiple layers with cmswriters and cmseditors, or cmsadmin, or what. :\
18:23:13 * rbergeron will have to play to refresh memory
18:23:31 <stickster> #action smooge will tell rbergeron when stg.fp.o is ready
18:23:39 <stickster> #action rbergeron will start testing on pt6 now, will continue on stg.fp.o once smooge tells her it's ready
18:23:51 <stickster> rbergeron: We're using only cmsadmin.
18:24:14 <stickster> rbergeron: I'll make sure you're in that group, if you need to be.
18:24:22 <rbergeron> stickster: i'll apply to cmsadmin
18:24:25 <rbergeron> ah, you're reading my mind
18:24:25 <stickster> OK
18:25:17 <rbergeron> stickster: being a sponsor would be helpful as well so i can test that stuff out without having to be dependent on finding an admin or sponsor. :)
18:25:23 <stickster> rbergeron: will do
18:25:35 <rbergeron> thank you :)
18:25:42 <smooge> be back in a sec. need to do deal with kid
18:26:33 <stickster> rbergeron: done
18:26:43 <stickster> #info rbergeron is now a sponsor on the 'cmsadmin' group
18:27:07 <stickster> wonderer: I don't think anything's changed with the workflow for News from when we last left it -- meaning that it should work for you on the back end as expected
18:27:12 <stickster> sorry wonderer
18:27:21 * stickster totally spaced, that should have been to pcalarco
18:27:25 <stickster> who's not here
18:27:42 <stickster> wonderer: Never mind, sorry :-)
18:27:42 <rbergeron> :)
18:27:42 * wonderer reading ahead..
18:27:55 <wonderer> stickster: workflow is as usual, yes.
18:28:28 <wonderer> that can I tell you, too ;-)
18:28:32 <smooge> back
18:29:01 <stickster> smooge: I'm thinking we'll have more to say about testing and progress, but not until after we get done with looking at the code stuff tomorrow.
18:29:18 <stickster> If it's OK, I'd like to move on to ask gwerra a question about theming
18:29:38 <rbergeron> stickster: i have a question about docs + zikula stuff for later. while i'm thinking about it. before i forget. :)
18:29:42 <gwerra> stickster: I am here for the question
18:29:45 <stickster> OK
18:29:48 <stickster> #topic Theming for Insight
18:30:02 <stickster> gwerra: How much of the theme for Zikula do you think is portable to another platform like Drupal?
18:30:23 <stickster> I did this by hand, working from a few of the styles you had done: http://marilyn.frields.org:8081/drupal/
18:30:37 <stickster> Obviously a lot more is needed there :-)
18:30:53 <stickster> But I notice much of the div classes and other id's are the same
18:31:12 <gwerra> stickster: Well most of it can be transfered over
18:31:23 <gwerra> Its just that it has a different API, so different way to do it
18:31:46 <stickster> gwerra: Meaning, the CSS files are kept in a slightly different place?
18:32:00 <gwerra> And the HTML tags differ
18:32:07 <stickster> Sure
18:32:09 <gwerra> and such things
18:32:11 <stickster> That makes perfect sense.
18:33:02 <stickster> I figure, if a luser like me figured that much out, someone who knows what they're doing, like gwerra, could have done it much faster :-)
18:33:25 * rbergeron is pretty sure stickster is about as far from luser as can be :)
18:33:32 <gwerra> rbergeron: +!
18:33:35 <gwerra> +1**
18:33:39 <stickster> I am no webby guy, that's for sure
18:34:01 <stickster> Anyway...
18:34:34 <stickster> I don't want to go through these tickets today, there's nothing new to cover from last recon.
18:34:49 <stickster> Thanks gwerra, that was it
18:34:51 <rbergeron> stickster: we have a drupal instance on pt6?
18:34:58 <Southern_Gentlem> stickster,  i am starting to lean drupal myself
18:34:59 <stickster> rbergeron: There's one there too, yes
18:35:08 <stickster> rbergeron: http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/drupal
18:35:11 <gwerra> stickster: My pleasure :)
18:35:35 * rbergeron figured that might be the location but
18:35:37 <rbergeron> oh! pt6 back up
18:35:59 <Southern_Gentlem> very old drupal
18:36:10 * ke4qqq shamelessly plugs that there will be a drupalcamp at http://southeastlinuxfest.org this year </spam> :)
18:36:14 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem: That's RHEL's copy.
18:36:30 <ke4qqq> there's drupal6 up for review for epel now
18:36:31 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: the what? never heard of it :)
18:36:48 <ke4qqq> no one reviewing it yet
18:36:58 <smooge> oi will add to list
18:37:02 <stickster> ke4qqq: Is it supposed to be parallel-installable?
18:37:07 <ke4qqq> stickster: yes
18:37:31 <ke4qqq> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=569833
18:37:55 <stickster> ke4qqq: I wrote module and theme specfiles here that I'd need to update based on that package: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Drupal_module_specfile_template
18:38:06 <Southern_Gentlem> ke4qqq,  so we can go to the drupalcamp or the fad
18:38:51 <ke4qqq> Southern_Gentlem: our fearless leader is doing both, don't see why others can't follow suit
18:39:35 <ke4qqq> stickster: actually this may be a situation where packaging guidelines need to be drafted to handle that - much like wp and wpmu that ianweller drafted a year or so ago
18:39:44 <stickster> ke4qqq: Well, that's a big maybe
18:40:00 <ke4qqq> yeah, would only affect EPEL afaik
18:40:07 <stickster> I'm scheduled for 30-45 min to talk at the FAD, plus a 2-hour session on PyGTK, on Sunday at SELF.
18:40:47 * stickster notes we're in the middle of an Insight meeting, though, and we should finish our agenda before other business
18:41:05 * ke4qqq apologizes for dragging us off topic
18:41:40 <stickster> np
18:41:55 * stickster is going to skip logistics since there's no status change there
18:42:00 <stickster> #topic Documentation
18:42:16 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight_Workflow <-- main workflow page
18:42:33 <stickster> We have a lot of incomplete sections here still. That may be because our testing has been so hampered by the platform status
18:42:54 <rbergeron> yes.
18:43:09 <stickster> I believe the FWN workflow is finished.
18:43:16 <rbergeron> so - I had previously volunteered to do that stuff - at least with user / admin accounts and so forth.
18:43:19 <stickster> Pardon me, the FWN workflow *docs*
18:43:40 <stickster> With the slight exception of "how to become an editor"
18:43:48 <smooge> rbergeron, I am sorry that it has been broken for 2 days. my fault
18:44:02 <stickster> smooge: It's OK, I hadn't notified rbergeron she was OK to begin testing
18:44:04 <rbergeron> smooge: it's okay, i hadn't checked.
18:44:16 * rbergeron points to what stickster says, and notes she could have poked stickster about it as well, but didn't. :)
18:44:18 <stickster> The FPL's job is to be at fault, people! Come on, work with me!
18:44:22 <stickster> ;-)
18:44:36 * rbergeron passes stickster a plate of juicy, delicious blame
18:44:38 <rbergeron> :)
18:44:50 <stickster> mmmm blame and failure
18:44:55 <stickster> Anyhoo
18:45:00 <rbergeron> hey, i don't see any fail here :)
18:45:06 <rbergeron> anyway
18:45:12 <stickster> I'll try to help out with that workflow documentation for general news as well
18:45:31 <rbergeron> do we have something for events?
18:45:35 <rbergeron> is there actualy a section for that?
18:45:35 <stickster> #action rbergeron to take lead on general news workflow docs once testing is working OK, stickster will ride shotgun and help
18:45:55 <stickster> rbergeron: We don't, but keep in mind that's not directly on our "revised milestones" for June 15th
18:46:14 * rbergeron nods
18:46:23 <stickster> Well actually, general news isn't either.
18:46:29 * rbergeron notes that we will all most likely not be here 10-13th.
18:47:04 <stickster> Correct, so to make our milestone, we really need to have our core testing done by next Monday for FWN.
18:47:16 <rbergeron> okay.
18:47:18 <stickster> I imagine that should be easy, since it basically worked earlier, and we haven't changed much since then.
18:47:22 * rbergeron nods
18:47:47 <smooge> Ok I am booked Saturday but Sunday I should be free after 1100 Arizona time
18:47:49 <stickster> The corresponding work is to get a copy of Insight staged right afterward
18:48:32 <stickster> #info Sunday afternoon is available for an Insight work session
18:48:37 <stickster> I can attend then too, I believe.
18:48:50 <rbergeron> i can as well.
18:49:10 <smooge> Okie dokie..
18:49:12 <stickster> And smooge and I will work out our time for tomorrow (Friday) after this meeting as well.
18:49:26 <rbergeron> okay.
18:49:36 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Insight#Goals <-- just fyi
18:50:07 <stickster> Basically, as close to June 15th as possible, we'd like to be able to type "fp.o/insight" into a browser and see the weekly news
18:51:03 <stickster> Anything else on docs or workflow?
18:51:16 <rbergeron> nope.
18:51:17 * stickster wants to open AOB
18:51:26 <stickster> #topic AOB -- All Other Business
18:51:52 <rbergeron> So - I know there was some discussion about zikula in docs mtg last night
18:51:55 <rbergeron> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2010-June/012351.html
18:51:57 <rbergeron> and that mail
18:52:20 * stickster reads
18:52:20 <rbergeron> I thought docs was not planning on it anymore? or am i seeing that it is still under consideration?
18:52:39 <rbergeron> and if so - does that affect anything we're doing right now
18:52:46 <stickster> rbergeron: I think it was always very tentative in Docs. And it doesn't appear to change our route at all.
18:53:02 <rbergeron> okay.
18:53:08 <stickster> There's no reason we won't be able to send people, using a CMS, to the appropriate place on docs.fp.o for content
18:53:57 * stickster finds it ironic that Docs was the place where the CMS movement started, but there weren't enough people passionately interested in it to keep going
18:53:58 <rbergeron> okay. I just didn't know if we needed to worry about any integration details, etc.
18:54:31 <rbergeron> but it sounds like we don't. which is good. :)
18:54:48 <stickster> rbergeron: I think the best thing we can do for Docs is to work on a CMS that we as a project can continue to support, one which is flexible and extensible enough to let us grow integration points if needed.
18:56:03 <stickster> I did have one thing which was bugging me a little
18:56:16 <stickster> We haven't seen a lot of drak or mateo around, which causes me some concern
18:56:44 <rbergeron> have we been seeing patches / etc? i know we haven't seen many posts to the mailing list.
18:57:13 <stickster> rbergeron: I checked the zikula-fedora, and nothing since mateo's one patch on 2010-05-19 to bring in the AuthFAS changes
18:57:23 <stickster> which I actually patched further
18:57:32 <stickster> I now have access to commit, so I can add my fix as well
18:57:45 <stickster> But relying on me to be the tech expertise for Zikula seems very wrong (not to mention foolish!)
18:57:59 * rbergeron nods
18:58:32 <rbergeron> i will see how testing goes - it may be that they are waiting on us to verify things work as we expect, although i would like to see participation in meetings
18:58:44 <stickster> I think people working on this project are *probably* willing to put in a little time into understanding some of the tech underneat
18:58:46 <stickster> *underneath
18:59:25 <stickster> But (1) Where do we get that understanding from? and (2) What are our chances of finding other people who can help us grow it?
19:00:31 <stickster> I want to give a fair heads-up that if we have a negative experience with our testing and run into the same problem again dealing with this platform, we're not going to be able to just stick something on the infrastructure we're not certain about.
19:00:33 <rbergeron> particularly if docs makes the move to zikula - i think that will require more expertise.
19:00:56 <stickster> rbergeron: I put the chances of Docs moving to any CMS in the near future as pretty low.
19:01:08 <stickster> mateo: Hello, we're just wrapping up our meeting.
19:01:08 <smooge> negative almost
19:01:16 <mateo> hey people! :)
19:02:14 <stickster> mateo: Are you available at any point tomorrow and/or Sunday in case we need assistance?
19:02:23 <stickster> (through IRC, that is)
19:02:44 <mateo> Sunday more probably, I'm moving house, that's why I was ausent :-|
19:03:09 <stickster> OK
19:03:16 <stickster> We were planning a work session for Sunday afternoon
19:03:47 <mateo> ok, I'll be here :)
19:03:57 <stickster> mateo: There will be more info on the logistics list
19:04:05 <stickster> mateo: Were you aware of our regular meeting time here?
19:04:21 <stickster> It's OK if you couldn't make it
19:04:28 <stickster> I just wanted to make sure you knew when we started, in case you *could* make it
19:05:12 <stickster> We meet here in this channel, #fedora-mktg, at 1800 UTC (2:00pm EDT -4)
19:05:24 <mateo> I knew it was Thursday around 3pm for me. (2pm ATM)
19:05:46 * ke4qqq has to step away for a few moments
19:05:51 <stickster> mateo: It's 2pm for you now?
19:06:16 <mateo> yup, GMT-5
19:06:18 <stickster> mateo: That would explain it -- we meet at 1:00pm your time :-)
19:06:42 <mateo> uh! I was @lunch :-|
19:06:42 * drak looks around for some beer
19:06:42 * stickster is going to wrap the meeting so people can get to their other stuff
19:06:56 <stickster> We'll figure this out in just a minute :-)
19:06:58 <stickster> #endmeeting