16:30:10 #startmeeting Fedora Mobility SIG 16:30:11 Meeting started Mon Dec 14 16:30:10 2020 UTC. 16:30:11 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 16:30:11 The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:30:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:30:11 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_mobility_sig' 16:30:11 #meetingname fedora_mobility_sig 16:30:11 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_mobility_sig' 16:30:11 #topic Introductions / init process 16:30:24 Morning everyone. Who all is around for a mobility sig meeting? 16:30:28 .hello kevin 16:30:29 nirik: kevin 'Kevin Fenzi' 16:30:32 * pcfe raises hand 16:30:36 hello 16:30:39 Hi 16:30:46 * nirik hopes pbrobinson is around. :) 16:30:55 nirik: I am mostly 16:31:03 cool! 16:32:17 lets wait a min or two... see if torbuntu or _Yoda or njha are around... 16:34:18 Hello 16:34:26 morning 16:34:36 It seems fractal isn't sending any of my messages 16:34:42 This is tor.sh 16:34:51 torbuntu13: I think something is off with the matrix bridge for this channel. ;( 16:35:07 anyhow, lets go ahead and get started. 16:35:11 #topic status / plans on current remix 16:35:18 .hello2 jbwillia 16:35:19 Southern_Gentlem: Sorry, but you don't exist 16:35:27 .hello jbwillia 16:35:28 Southern_Gentlem: jbwillia 'Ben Williams' 16:35:36 .hello Torbuntu 16:35:36 torbuntu13: Sorry, but you don't exist 16:35:43 So I played with the current image last week, but then i updated it and got the broken rawhide glibc and fprintd and haven't fixed it yet. ;) 16:36:05 I did see that the camera wasn't working. Not sure about mms. 16:36:20 The camera should work now, front facing anyway. 16:36:25 Using MegaPixels only 16:36:32 Which is packaged in Copr 16:36:33 it's "working" 16:36:35 ^ 16:36:41 ( https://github.com/nikhiljha/pp-fedora-sdsetup/releases ) 16:36:51 ah ha. I did't try that. 16:36:53 don't use the latest one, take the one before. 16:37:05 What is wrong with the latest one? 16:37:13 (besides the botched resolv.conf link) 16:37:17 it's in a worse shape than the last build ;) 16:37:26 can you all make a new one? nov is kind of old now. :) 16:37:36 "megapixels" is meant. 16:37:44 nirik: which image is that? 16:37:52 I was waiting for Firefox and glibc to get sorted before putting up a new image. 16:38:06 I created a scratch of a purely upstream Fedora image 16:38:08 the current megapixel can't deal with shutter abnd iso without crashing, the prev version could. 16:38:08 pbrobinson: the https://github.com/nikhiljha/pp-fedora-sdsetup/releases one... basically rawhide + custom kernel + copr repo 16:38:19 pbrobinson: yeah, that was gonna be the next topic. ;) 16:38:36 torbuntu13: glibc is fine now... not sure on firefox. 16:38:37 CyborgGER: I don't think we need to into specific bugs of specific apps as yet 16:39:28 firefox is enabled for aarch64 again, but failing to build looks like. 16:39:35 so, hopefully sorted soon. 16:39:52 Cool, I watch for that and rebuild a new image when it is ready then. 16:40:07 great. moving along then... 16:40:10 #topic status / plans for next step remix with fedora kernel + patches and images built on copr 16:40:32 pbrobinson: you were working on a fedora kernel + patches / image? 16:40:53 nirik: ATM I have an image that is pure Fedora, I've not had time to actually test it 16:40:56 I am not sure the fedora uboot can boot the 3G phones currently, or did that get fixed? 16:41:19 but given the screen works etc, that should be a start for userspace, and then I was going to evolve it from there 16:42:01 I have on my list to look at u-boot, we should have another RC this week 16:42:01 I'm happy to test, but I think uboot might need tweaks (for the 3G ones) and then... no network will be a big pain. 16:42:15 and there's an issue with a RPi patch that was causing other issues 16:42:33 torbuntu13: did you have a link to the uboot patch you used for the remix image? is that upstreamed or can it be? :) 16:42:41 network is on my list once I have a standard rawhide build working 16:43:03 _Yoday provided uboot 16:43:14 nirik: there was a patch posted for upstream to deal with the 3G support, I need to check if it's upstream 16:43:46 torbuntu13: ah, thanks 16:44:06 It isn't the patch itself, but here is where we host the uboot and spec: https://gitlab.com/fedora-mobile/yoda-uboot 16:44:15 nirik: I expect that I should be able to get u-boot sorted in the next week or so 16:45:25 ok 16:45:35 pbrobinson: is the image you built local or on copr or ? 16:45:52 nirik: koji scatch build 16:45:59 ah ha. ok. 16:46:51 so, let folks know when you would like testing... I guess on the arm list ? 16:47:22 that was my plan, I've not even boot tested it yet so that's why I've not sent it out more widely 16:47:42 * torbuntu13 is ready whenever with a BraveHeart and 3G CE 16:47:51 +1 to arm list 16:47:56 I have both a 2GB and 3GB phones (although I did get the 3GB upgrade for the 2G one to install someday) 16:48:06 I was going to wait for 5.10 GA to land, I should have some time this week and get something we can have a regular build of 16:48:09 silly HW question, how do I determine if my pinephone is of type G3? 16:48:18 It will have 3GB of ram 16:48:30 thx 16:48:33 pcfe: it's the 3Gb of RAM when we refer to that 16:48:43 and whats so special about it? 16:48:50 yeah. sorry for not being more clear. There's 2GB models and 3GB models 16:48:56 I only have a braveheart so will require someone else to test 16:49:06 * CyborgGER has a 3G CE 16:49:14 also the newer phones fix a usb-c issue 16:49:25 CyborgGER: there's Braveheart, the production version with 2Gb of RAM, and a prod version with 3Gb of RAM and a few other HW fixes 16:49:34 FWIW: mine's a UBports Edition, basically purchased what was shippable when I decided to support the pine64 people with my wallet 16:50:06 * nirik also has the usb-c 'dock' and serial cable... they were cheap, why not. ;) 16:50:16 https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/PinePhone#Hardware_revisions 16:50:21 List of revisions. 16:50:25 basically we'll support all of them where possible so I don't think we need to spend time on that, people can read up the differences on the wiki 16:51:08 anyhow, do we want to try and do something so we can get more people helping? ie, a wiki list of testers, or a feature checkist we can use for testing, or packages in copr needing review, etc? 16:51:13 also with serial cable, so happy to test anything (over the xmas vacation) where a bad mess can still be re-installed while having serial console ;-) 16:51:41 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1817424 we have this 16:52:11 do we have a Mobility page on the Fedora wiki that links to all the various bits? 16:52:13 a qa checkilst would be great to have... ( camera / usb-c dock, sms, mms, wifi, ethernet, etc so we could know what images pass what features) 16:52:35 pbrobinson: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/PinePhone 16:52:50 I'm not sure how up to date it is. 16:53:17 nirik: yes, I think if we have a Mobility page, and a PinePhone page, on the former we cover the SIG as a whole, on the later we can document the support status of various components of the actual phone 16:53:29 and then add pages for the LibreM etc 16:53:46 * torbuntu13 Tor hopes to get his Librem5 before the end days 16:53:53 I can try a qa checklist... but I am not a qa person, so help welcome. :) 16:54:00 and I can definitely do reviews. 16:54:24 Chatty is still waiting for another review, though I think it needs the new package and spec sent 16:54:32 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1870890 16:54:47 kgx also got updated on copr per the review but not resubmitted. 16:55:00 this is the mobility page for the SIG as a whole https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mobility 16:55:23 so we should use that as a central page to link to others and have a general overview 16:55:33 pbrobinson: +1 16:55:53 torbuntu13: ah, I think we need to close the old chatty review... I can try and do that this week and review the new one. 16:56:08 Awesome, thank you 16:57:23 so do we know if there's anyone upstreaming all the kernel patches? or is it just each distro doing some? 16:57:47 The majority that I've tried to follow are coming from Megi (who builds the kernel we use now in copr) 16:58:43 ok. I guess we can worry about that as we get to particular patches. 16:59:56 there's a mix it seems of the patches 17:00:44 it seems Megi has no particular interest in upstreaming, and there's a bunch of really weird stuff in there so we'll have to see how that turns out 17:01:15 there's some pieces being upstreamed by others, in a lot of cases separate patches to megis 17:01:28 Oh, wow. I didn't know that. 17:02:03 alright. 17:02:17 I did start to work through some of those patches, I need to basically start again with 5.10 out, and we'll see how much changes for 5.11 late this year when the merge window closes 17:02:56 I think the wifi / bluetooth is likely the most pressing... without network, the phone isn't too usefull. 17:04:00 #topic future work 17:04:15 do we want to also look at a wishlist somewhere? I guess it could be on the wiki... 17:04:35 but things like: encryption, eMMC install, etc 17:04:53 Yeah, that would I think be helpful. I get asked a lot about a Silverblue-eqsue image for the phone. 17:04:54 and I guess ostree might also go into that bucket 17:05:01 yeah. :) 17:05:13 That is the first thing most people do ask me "Silverblue when?" 17:05:20 I really think we need a plain fedora image that works before we can move on to those other things... 17:05:29 Oh yes, definitely. 17:05:37 +1 17:06:09 oh, and this might be of interest to folks here: fedora flatpaks are now going to be also available on aarch64... 17:06:16 A phone able to make a phone call would be a nice target ;) 17:06:19 That interests me entirely. 17:06:23 CyborgGER: ha. indeed. 17:06:30 Calls is definitely broken right now. 17:06:31 nirik: I think I can make the modem work with a small patch, I may be able to hack the wifi without a full new driver 17:06:37 it's on my holiday hacking list 17:06:45 hurray 17:07:30 So mschwarz had some more discussion items in the ticket ( https://pagure.io/fedora-mobility/issue/1 ) we could hit on quickly... 17:07:32 torbuntu13: the answer to silverblue is when we have a stable upstream platform 17:07:49 That is pretty much what I've been saying yeah. 17:07:53 Gnome has answered to a request for a patch to gsd-media-keys ( thats the one who controls volume and power buttons ) , that they prefer downstream patches, as they are device-dependend. 17:07:54 This leads to the question, how we handle patches for pines internally: do we patch for an arch, for all arches or do we build i.e. pinephone related replacement packages. As it will cause differences in patch levels for sure, if we choose the last option. 17:08:00 that me .. 17:08:09 ah ha. cool. ;) 17:08:40 go on .. more less i wrote all topics in that page 17:09:00 nirik: what's the patch to gsd keys and why do we need it? 17:09:10 yeah. So on this, I think we need to try and upstream or... if not, try and get them to have a way for us to configure what we need on the fly. 17:09:14 As you may notice I don't focus on PHOSH , i like to use gnome. 17:09:16 pbrobinson: not sure, CyborgGER ? 17:09:34 Gnome does not lock the screen 17:09:48 so we need a patch, that works with the lightdm greeter to look the screen. 17:10:05 ah... why are we using lightdm? (you need gdm for gnome locking to work) 17:10:18 The patch is already is in phase 1 ready at the maintainer , bnut i want to imprroove it a bit. 17:10:20 CyborgGER: not really what I asked 17:11:22 I've not looked at lightdm recently, but in the past it also didn't support wayland at all, so if you use it to login to gnome you will get a X11 session always. :( 17:11:23 do the vol up/down/power keys not work at all or is it that people want gsd-media-keys with those keys 17:11:33 We have a customized lightdm in copr 17:11:43 gsd-media-keys to do something different with those keys even 17:12:21 Last I knew it was used so that we can still switch from Phosh to GNOME. But Phosh itself has a builtin lockscreen that I use without lightdm, so we could just drop it if we focus on just Phosh (allowing GNOME+gdm as user specific customization) 17:12:29 In the end, the gnome default key handling is usefull for laptops, not for phones. So a slight change is needed. 17:13:00 CyborgGER: do you have a link to the patch/issue upstream? 17:13:26 @nirik: it's on the pp-fedora issue tracker on github 17:13:44 torbuntu13: huh... gdm should let you switch between them I would think? 17:14:07 CyborgGER: maybe a link to the upstream ticket might be helpful for me to understand 17:14:08 gdm would lock and suspen, but gdm isn't useable due to the lightdm-mobile-greeter 17:14:12 When I tried it a year ago the OSK for GNOME was not functionally usable. But yes it does allow that. 17:14:34 https://github.com/nikhiljha/pp-fedora-sdsetup/issues 17:14:36 It's fully useable atm.. 17:14:41 CyborgGER: but lightdm and gdm are both desktop managers, you can't use them both at once 17:15:06 I will try a build using GDM instead of LightDM and see how it pans out. 17:15:10 thats the problem this patch is targeting. 17:15:14 yes please 17:15:27 yeah, gdm doesn't resize to the phone screen, so you have to go to landscape mode to get enough of the keyboard to login. I agree it's... not good 17:15:41 Does it still do that? 17:15:47 could be a problem. 17:15:54 not sure, it was a while back when I looked at it. 17:15:58 When I tried it the screen itself fit just fine. 17:15:59 I'd rather toggle to landscape for now than miss a modern DM 17:16:06 It was just the osk that was off a bit. 17:16:16 I think I grabbed a rawhide aarch64 workstation image and booted it to see that... 17:16:26 the osk of gnome ( now internal ) is awefull. 17:16:38 (which did/soes boot on 2GB phones) 17:16:49 they really should use a better one like onboard 17:17:06 CyborgGER: we're not here to have opinions on that TBH can we keep on track 17:17:34 lets see... we are running low on time... 17:17:46 software center 17:18:09 I think we should file bugs and work with them to try and get it more functional... 17:18:16 same 17:18:16 +1 17:18:47 at least we should try. :) 17:19:04 Next: Power consumption 17:19:28 there's tons to do there I think... but I think we should try and get to functional first... 17:19:30 1.5W in idle as far as i can see. 0.5W for a medium lit screen 17:19:43 yeah, thats terrible. :) 17:19:45 I agree with Nirik. 17:20:01 android has some better govenors on the scheduler to spare energy. 17:20:36 So I have enabled energy model in Fedora, but that won't work with the pinephone SoC as it needs big.little architecture 17:20:36 some of them are available afaik for normal kernels, but never got implemented. 17:20:44 CyborgGER: do you know if those are upstream? I know android has been upstreaming a lot of things of late. 17:20:56 and if the android things aren't upstream that's a no go as far as I'm concerned 17:21:38 there's a bunch of other work around power management and I'm sure we can tweak option in Fedora kernels to improve this a lot 17:21:40 question is, if we know one who could take a look inside those fi they are available. 17:21:49 I wonder if there's power difference from using eMMC vs microsd... 17:22:03 without even the non upstream stuff, it's always been on my list but not really having battery powered devices I've never really got around to it 17:22:10 nirik: won't be much TBH 17:22:39 one nice thing about the pinephone over modern android phones: you can carry a spare battery and swap it in. :) 17:22:50 but there's power difference in different modes on both emmc/mSD, the newer/faster modes run at 1.8v vs 3.3 17:23:06 nirik: :D 17:23:20 and over all we should look at PM and suspend so that if the camera's not in use it's all powered off etc 17:23:32 yeah. 17:23:35 Before I forget again, I've been struggling with the Calls application and audio profiles. I've tried looking for info about Alsa (UCM2), Pulseaudio and profile switching, but I am seeing without a downstream patch to pulseaudio we cannot reliably swap from phone call audio to system audio. 17:23:49 do we have anything like powertop to see whats using what power? 17:23:50 https://gitlab.com/mobian1/callaudiod/-/issues/5 <- I have been tracking this, but the developer says they did not start yet. 17:23:57 yes we have.. 17:24:02 powertop works 17:24:12 ok, great! 17:24:35 torbuntu13: and... fedora is switching to pipewire soon (not that it matters for this over pulseaudio) 17:24:46 That was another followup yeah. 17:24:54 yes, but I've found it's not overly effective with HW subsystems, but it'll be good to get bugs for particularly crappy daemons etc 17:25:15 nirik: probably the same bugs ;-) 17:25:39 ha 17:26:01 If we are going to put issues on the wiki somewhere, I'd like to make one to track that callaudiod issue, since it supposedly will fix these issues. 17:26:06 I think ultimately we're going to have a few phases here 1) the basics working 2) polish apps and power and related bits 3) ostree based image 17:26:18 I agree. 17:26:21 * nirik nods 17:26:41 torbuntu13: I am fine with using the mobility sig pagure for that kind of thing? 17:26:48 I mean a full day on power is great, but working wifi/LTE etc is likely more useful in the short term 17:26:56 +1 17:26:59 nirik: the same one where the meeting times issue was? 17:27:02 yep 17:27:04 torbuntu13: yeah. 17:27:07 +1 for mobility sig pagure for that 17:27:28 Great, will throw that up there now. 17:27:30 and speaking of that... is everyone ok with meetings monthly on 2nd monday at 16:30utc like today? 17:27:37 pinephone eats 12% battery powered off ... no idea for what and what we could do here. 17:27:46 nirik: WFM 17:27:54 CyborgGER: wow. nice. ;( 17:28:08 CyborgGER: is that with the crust firmware too? 17:28:16 not suspended? but off? 17:28:17 btw.. i have a systemd service for maxbattery ready. 17:28:26 sorry, suspended 17:28:43 CyborgGER: and which generation of the HW, there is some known power issues with the early gen 17:28:51 ok, sounds like something is not powering off. ;( 17:28:55 Q: are there plans to switch hw modules off by software? 17:29:05 i.e. GPS 17:29:11 nirik: I may have work responsibilities during this time but I will try to be around. 17:29:17 CyborgGER: I suspect we're not fully suspending so ensuring that as well as proper wake up sources is the story there 17:29:17 which eats lots so energy when in use. 17:29:40 CyborgGER: see a whole bunch of things I said above...... 17:29:44 Schedule time os ok here. 17:29:54 apologies, have to head to food now 17:30:07 If I can't make it I'll try and leave notes in a pagure issue for my status and questions, if that works too? 17:30:26 yeah, we are at time now. ;) 17:30:30 #topic Open Floor 17:30:39 Some last famous words about the Webshool of LOM ( Linux on Mobile ) ? 17:30:43 anything anyone else wants to discuss quickly? 17:31:14 CyborgGER: hum? 17:31:18 Should I submit MegaPixels for review to be added to Phosh group? 17:31:35 torbuntu13: yeah, please do. let me know and I can try and review 17:31:47 Awesome, will get that ready in the following days/week. 17:31:47 The main problem for mobility is, that apps and toolkits are not eficent enough. 17:32:30 CyborgGER: agreed. I was thinking this might be something we bring up to gtk4 developers... if they haven't already made things better than in 3 17:32:30 To address this as distro independent workgroup is needed afaiks 17:32:42 torbuntu13: just link it to the mobility tracker bug when you do 17:32:56 Will do. 17:33:24 2 of those are "ready" but nikhil hasn't had time to finish getting them up to mainline yet (ofono, purple) 17:33:28 I agree that would be nice... but not sure anyone will make one. I'm pretty sure Red Hat has no interest in driving one... 17:33:42 torbuntu13: we don't need ofono for phosh do we? 17:33:43 I'm afraid you would say that 17:33:57 so it's up to we the people. :) 17:34:01 No, Phosh uses ModemManager, but plasma mobile uses Ofono 17:34:09 I think it was just for a precursor to that. 17:34:34 (though, I think even Phosh *could* use it) 17:34:46 apropos modemmanager.. how does it get blocked from the system suspend? 17:35:09 to get calls and sms while phone is asleep, it needs to be powered on. 17:35:36 and it need to wake the cpu when a call comes in 17:35:48 good question... is that a wake on wlan type of thing? 17:35:52 * torbuntu13 disabled suspend for being entirely unreliable. 17:36:41 apparently the wifi driver megi landed recently had a bunch of suspend issues. 17:36:54 https://xnux.eu/log/#027 17:37:55 anyhow, we are over time... so thanks everyone for coming and do continue in #fedora-phone the arm list and the pagure mobility tracker. :) 17:37:58 #endmeeting