15:01:49 <bcotton> #startmeeting Prioritized bugs and issues
15:01:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 22 15:01:49 2021 UTC.
15:01:49 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:01:49 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
15:01:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'prioritized_bugs_and_issues'
15:01:56 <bcotton> #meetingname Fedora Prioritized bugs and issues
15:01:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_prioritized_bugs_and_issues'
15:02:02 <bcotton> #topic Purpose of this meeting
15:02:09 <bcotton> #info The purpose of this process is to help with processing backlog of bugs and issues found during the development, verification and use of Fedora distribution.
15:02:17 <bcotton> #info The main goal is to raise visibility of bugs and issues to help  contributors focus on the most important issues.
15:02:25 <bcotton> #link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/program_management/prioritized_bugs/#_process_description
15:02:37 <bcotton> #topic Roll Call
15:04:12 * bcotton looks around the empty room
15:04:57 <mattdm> i am here
15:05:02 <mattdm> i am just also in the CPE call
15:05:04 <bcotton> well hello!
15:05:05 <mattdm> OF DOOOM
15:05:14 <bcotton> dun dun dunnnnn
15:05:25 <mattdm> also I'm doing this from the matrix web client instead of weechat and it's weird
15:05:36 <bcotton> well there's only one bug today, so we should be able to get this done quickly!
15:05:46 <bcotton> #topic Nominated bugs
15:05:55 <bcotton> #info 1 nominated bugs
15:06:05 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&f1=flagtypes.name&f2=OP&list_id=10871664&o1=substring&query_format=advanced&v1=fedora_prioritized_bug%3F
15:06:14 <bcotton> #topic Screen stays black after suspend / logout when used on amd apu laptop.
15:06:23 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1988528
15:06:44 <bcotton> jforbes are you around?
15:06:53 <mattdm> that bug is secret
15:06:57 <jforbes> I am
15:07:42 <bcotton> ah! i didn't notice that.
15:07:44 <mattdm> I'm declaring a policy -- prioritized bugs need to be public.
15:07:59 <bcotton> +1 to that
15:08:00 <mattdm> If there's a secret component there needs to be at least a public side
15:08:30 <mattdm> that said i don't see why this is secret
15:08:38 <jforbes> There's nothing particularly interesting in that bug
15:08:41 <bcotton> yeah, i'm not sure either
15:08:56 <bcotton> mattdm, jforbes can you actually see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1988528
15:09:02 <jforbes> yup
15:09:14 <bcotton> i'm not sure how the fedora_contrib_private group gets set
15:09:15 <bcotton> okay, cool
15:10:03 <bcotton> well since we're already here, let's make a tentative decision subject to the reporter's willingness to make it public
15:10:16 <mattdm> justin do you see any reason to not make this one public?
15:10:33 <jforbes> I do not, but it doesn't much matter, I also see no reason to make it priority
15:11:08 <jforbes> kernel is rebasing again today, it is not a widespread problem, and the entire priority bug system works very poorly for kernel in general
15:11:18 <mattdm> yeah at the very least needs more detail
15:11:53 <mattdm> we don't want to prioritize random "this doesn't work for me" bugs
15:12:10 <mattdm> they should be for things that need special attention, coordination, or focus
15:12:22 <mattdm> Or rarely, just "things that are affecting a lot of people and keep getting kicked"
15:12:40 <bcotton> and it looks like it's fixed in the rawhide kernel
15:13:03 <jforbes> And if it is fixed in rawhide, it is very likely it is fixed in the 5.14 rebase building right now too
15:14:14 <bcotton> proposed #agreed 1988528 is rejected. There's no indication that this is a widespread issue and as it has been reported to work with the Rawhide kernel, it is likely fixed in the 5.14 rebase building right now.
15:14:28 <jforbes> considering that 5.14 was rawhide at the time the bug was filed
15:14:55 <mattdm> +1 yeah
15:15:19 <mattdm> I sure don't have any problems on my amd system so there's one anti-reproducer :)
15:15:39 <jforbes> Outside of that, the prioritized bug system doesn't really work for kernel. Fedora doesn't necessarily have any sort of prioritized access to the army of kernel developers that RHEL does.  Fedora has me, and then Hans and Peter Robinson pay a lot of attention and help out a lot
15:16:20 <jforbes> Given the breadth of the kernel, hardware requirements for debugging and fixing, and such, chances are a bugs priority status will make no impact on how quickly it gets fixed
15:16:26 <bcotton> #agreed 1988528 is rejected. There's no indication that this is a widespread issue and as it has been reported to work with the Rawhide kernel, it is likely fixed in the 5.14 rebase building right now
15:16:45 <bcotton> #action bcotton to add "Prioritized Bugs must be public" to docs
15:17:29 <bcotton> does it make sense to exclude kernel bugs by policy? or are there cases where, yeah, we could try to pull in others to help with a kernel issue
15:18:02 <jforbes> Things impacting a large number of users I tend to take upstream quickly, bugs impacting small number of users or less common hardware are typically referred upstream, and we have no control on how quickly upstream is going to react
15:18:45 <jforbes> We can try all we want, but we have no control over developers outside of Red Hat, and how successful do you think it would be to take a RHEL developers off of RHEL issues to address a Fedora issue?
15:20:58 <jforbes> I do read every bug that comes in, I tend to look upstream to see if others have reported similar issues. If so, I also track those a bit to see what the fix might be. Even if I could reproduce every issue though, we don't have the hardware to track everything down, the bisect/build/test alone would need a lot more maintainers and a lot more hardware than we have
15:21:33 <bcotton> so what i'm hearing is "let people nominate, but reject without involving justin unless it's a large-scale issue and tell folks to report it upstream"?
15:21:43 <bcotton> hehe, it seems unlikely
15:22:56 <mattdm> yeah
15:23:11 <jforbes> I would be okay with that. Generally speaking, everyone's kernel bug is a priority because it means something critical doesn't work on their machine. If it is widespread, those tend to get worked out quickly. If it is not widespread, it may be a bit.
15:23:22 <mattdm> let's not making having justin available for when we need it be extra work all the rest of the time.
15:24:29 <bcotton> okay, that works for me
15:24:45 <bcotton> at least until such time as we figure out how to clone people
15:24:53 <mattdm> yeah :)
15:25:23 <bcotton> thanks for the input, justin, i always appreciate it
15:25:27 <bcotton> jforbes++
15:25:27 <zodbot> bcotton: Karma for jforbes changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:25:31 <jforbes> I am pretty much always around on IRC, so me being available isn't a problem
15:25:44 <bcotton> #topic Accepted bugs
15:25:48 <bcotton> #info 0 accepted bugs
15:25:54 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&f1=flagtypes.name&f2=OP&list_id=10871665&o1=substring&query_format=advanced&v1=fedora_prioritized_bug%2B
15:26:00 <bcotton> #topic Bugs fixed since last meeting
15:26:05 <bcotton> #info This is to remind ourselves that the process works
15:26:12 <bcotton> #topic please revert hard requirement on grubby
15:26:20 <bcotton> #undo
15:26:20 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7f256fb04710>
15:26:37 <bcotton> #info please revert hard requirement on grubby
15:26:41 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1988459
15:26:49 <bcotton> #info SELinux is preventing gnome-session-c from 'write' accesses on the sock_file dbus-7hye6voX3Y.
15:26:55 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1949712
15:27:01 <bcotton> #topic Next meetin
15:27:04 <bcotton> #undo
15:27:04 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7f256faed320>
15:27:06 <bcotton> #topic Next meeting
15:27:11 <bcotton> #info We will meet again on 6 October at 1500 UTC in #fedora-meeting-1
15:27:27 <bcotton> anything else for this meeting while the bridge catches up?
15:32:00 <bcotton> #endmeeting