14:01:49 <anthr76[m]> #startmeeting Fedora Sway SIG (2022-09-07)
14:01:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep  7 14:01:49 2022 UTC.
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14:02:23 <Fale[m]> .hi
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14:02:29 <Fale[m]> .hello fale
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14:02:35 <anthr76[m]> .hello anthr76
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14:02:43 <anthr76[m]> ouch :)
14:02:48 <Fale[m]> zodbot in angry today
14:03:43 <anthr76[m]> I suppose we'll try a topic
14:03:46 <anthr76[m]> #topic Name for the ostree spin, Ep. 03
14:09:07 <anthr76[m]> Alright zodbot..
14:09:07 <anthr76[m]> https://github.com/fedora-silverblue/issue-tracker/issues/343
14:09:32 <anthr76[m]> So it seems like folks aren't a big fan of "Silverblue Sway" either :/
14:11:20 <Fale[m]> :-(
14:11:39 <Fale[m]> I wonder if it is going to be possible to get a name that is ok with everyone
14:11:47 * anthr76[m] wonders what the world would be like if we called silverblue Fedora CoreOS desktop
14:12:27 <Fale[m]> CoreOS is a RH registered brand, so it would be more complex imho
14:12:32 <anthr76[m]> Ah
14:12:53 <Fale[m]> I mean, it was CoreOS Inc registered, but then it got acquired by RH
14:13:13 <anthr76[m]> So many identities for things that are ever so slightly from one another
14:13:16 <Fale[m]> yeah, I agree
14:13:28 <anthr76[m]> Yeah... 'Fedora CoreOS' is a weird name in itself
14:14:31 <alebastr[m]> it would also bring unnecessary association with Fedora Core - another part of Fedora history
14:14:39 <anthr76[m]> I like travier's last point about reviving atomic or something similar.
14:14:39 <Fale[m]> if we want to stick to the blue mineral thing, there is a full list of the proposed options in the third to last comment https://fale.io/blog/2022/08/12/fedora-sway-ostree-spin-name
14:16:33 <anthr76[m]> * so slightly different from one
14:17:19 <anthr76[m]> Of those I think
14:17:19 <anthr76[m]> * Sapphire
14:17:19 <anthr76[m]> * Spinel
14:17:37 <anthr76[m]> * Of those I think
14:17:38 <anthr76[m]> - Sapphire
14:17:38 <anthr76[m]> - Spinel
14:17:39 <anthr76[m]> peak my interest
14:17:49 <anthr76[m]> I would prefer something easy to spell and say for the google aspect. Jamie brought good points up there
14:18:15 <Fale[m]> there is also Sapphirine which was not in the list
14:18:31 <Fale[m]> I'm -1 for Sapphire due to the google aspect
14:19:38 <anthr76[m]> There also may be some good suggestions from the reddit posts or discussions. I haven't really check yet
14:20:24 <Fale[m]> I would be +1 on spinel, scodalite mostly
14:20:55 <Fale[m]> I think those on reddit were not in addition to the list
14:21:47 <Fale[m]> spinel is a little bit a second choice for me due to the many colors it comes in
14:23:33 <anthr76[m]> Is scodalite really a mineral? Google has be auto-correcting to sodalite
14:25:47 <Fale[m]> scorodite, sorry
14:25:54 <jkonecny[m]> .hi
14:25:55 <zodbot> jkonecny[m]: Something blew up, please try again
14:25:56 <Fale[m]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorodite
14:25:59 <zodbot> jkonecny[m]: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
14:26:56 <alebastr[m]> what about Sericea (from the comment with tree/Silverleaf theme)?
14:27:07 <jkonecny[m]> About the CoreOS it's something different. It has Ignition and is for servers
14:27:50 <Fale[m]> @alebastr#2053 I do have doubts on the creation of a new convention, but the name is nice
14:29:01 <anthr76[m]> +1 on the sounds of Sericea
14:29:16 <anthr76[m]> Fale[m]: The pronunciation of this is hard and makes me think about sodalite too much :/
14:29:25 <anthr76[m]> s/sounds/sound/
14:31:38 <Fale[m]> yes, that's a risk
14:32:05 <anthr76[m]> I do like it, but I think it's because I liked sodalite
14:32:20 <Fale[m]> same here
14:33:45 <jkonecny[m]> I also like Sericea
14:34:04 <anthr76[m]> Also https://www.google.com/search?q=opal&oq=opal&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i433i512l2j0i131i433j46i175i199i433i512j0i433i512j0i131i433j0i433i512l3.912j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
14:34:16 <anthr76[m]> * Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal it was just recently submitted
14:34:20 <jkonecny[m]> However, I would like to push a but more about the SilverBlue solution
14:34:27 <anthr76[m]> +1
14:34:39 <jkonecny[m]> But that is not blocking
14:34:54 <anthr76[m]> Agreed. Even it's not silverblue there should be a generic name for all ostree spins
14:35:56 <jkonecny[m]> I will try to start a bit more discussions about this
14:36:31 <anthr76[m]> You should be able to say (going to use atomic for argument-sake) Fedora atomic kde, Fedora atomic sway, Fedora atomic gnome and someone not intertwined with Fedora should know what you're talking about
14:36:40 <anthr76[m]> jkonecny[m]: I've been meaning to add some context on your issue. I will do that today
14:37:19 <anthr76[m]> I have peers that are incredibly confused with the naming conventions and I think rightfully so
14:38:26 <jkonecny[m]> I'm still not able to remember how Xfce is named
14:39:05 <Fale[m]> vauxite
14:39:22 <jkonecny[m]> But in any way we can try this and agree on other solution
14:42:20 <anthr76[m]> I think we should move on from this for now.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/5137861ec44a8916c7f49394c29bbe597d3865f9)
14:42:27 <anthr76[m]> * Sericea
14:42:27 <anthr76[m]> Sounds good. Also fits well with Sway
14:42:47 <anthr76[m]> We will also look into generic ostree branding between the DEs
14:44:15 <alebastr[m]> Kinoite is the only official edition that uses the mineral theme so far. IMO, we can use a different naming scheme, if only to increase confusion :)
14:44:34 <jkonecny[m]> I think Opal will be too confusing
14:44:45 <anthr76[m]> I don't see it being a problem
14:44:54 <anthr76[m]> Sounds like we have a good Sericea then
14:45:10 * alebastr[m] checked Scorodite wikipedia article
14:45:59 <alebastr[m]> it's arsenite (highly toxic) and that may have some negative meanings attached :(
14:46:52 <alebastr[m]> s/arsenite/arsenate/
14:47:19 <Fale[m]> I think if we agree that the mineral is not a requirement, sericea has quite big agreement
14:47:33 <anthr76[m]> +1
14:48:15 <Fale[m]> (I'm +1 on sericea)
14:48:34 <anthr76[m]> To be honest, I wouldn't mind tentatively agreeing on it now to put it behind us :)
14:48:35 <Fale[m]> I'm very +1 on that
14:48:41 * anthr76[m] likes vim, not naming
14:48:49 <jkonecny[m]> What exactly is Sericea (probably my bad English )
14:49:08 <Fale[m]> (let's say that having talked about a name for 1+month it's becoming a little annoying :-D)
14:50:20 <Fale[m]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminalia_sericea
14:51:13 * anthr76[m] uploaded an image: (26KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/mozilla.org/ce4cbfcca76820c743d3f5bb92b6d2715afd9e59/image.png >
14:51:33 * anthr76[m] uploaded an image: (383KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/mozilla.org/a07f5f2d4eb5f72158dba03d5f624f3b23345124/image.png >
14:51:49 <anthr76[m]> I would say you can draw a fun comparison here
14:52:21 <anthr76[m]> They obviously don't match 1:1 but it isn't a rock :)
14:53:50 <jkonecny[m]> Thanks Fale: Sericea sounds great to me
14:54:49 <Fale[m]> @anthr76 the syggestion was for terminalia sericea, not sericea lespedza ;-)
14:54:57 <anthr76[m]> Ah...
14:54:58 <anthr76[m]> Close enough
14:55:00 <anthr76[m]> 😆
14:57:05 <anthr76[m]> Gabriel on Fale's blog is the suggester of  sericea and he does a good job doing so.
14:57:29 <anthr76[m]> I would like to breeze through a few topics and can't really go over time much
14:58:21 <Fale[m]> shall we do a quick vote to have it as pro-tempore (and potentially stick if no better alternatives arise)?
14:59:08 <anthr76[m]> Sure
14:59:22 <alebastr[m]> I thought all the +1s above count as vote, but if no I'll +1 again.
14:59:50 <jkonecny[m]> +1
15:00:04 <anthr76[m]> +1
15:00:46 <Fale[m]> +1
15:01:13 <anthr76[m]> #agreed (4/4) Sericea to be the sway ostree spin name given no implications
15:01:21 <anthr76[m]> wohoo
15:01:51 <anthr76[m]> #topic login manager
15:03:50 <anthr76[m]> There's some oddities with SDDM currently and our current options all have pros/cons.
15:04:06 <anthr76[m]> Before trying to make SDDM a better place I'm curious if we will try alebastr 's qmlgreet with greetd?
15:07:00 <Fale[m]> @alebastr#1853 how's qmlgreet working?
15:08:00 <alebastr[m]> it's just a greeter for greetd, similar to gtkgreet but with better session and X11 support
15:08:19 <Fale[m]> do you think it would be a sensible choice?
15:09:39 <alebastr[m]> I think we have time until f38 to make it a sensible choice. But I've been using it for a few weeks and it haven't exploded or bricked my laptop :)
15:10:13 <alebastr[m]> there's a test ostree build in the ostree-config merge request
15:10:31 <jkonecny[m]> That is great start
15:11:35 <alebastr[m]> the ui is very basic (not unlike gtkgreet), but it's QML and it is insanely customizable without recompiling the binary
15:12:40 * anthr76[m] appreciates simplicity
15:12:48 <Fale[m]> I think it would be sensible to explore more deeply qmlgreet before committing to sddm
15:13:14 <anthr76[m]> +1
15:13:15 <Fale[m]> I like what I've seen and what I hear from @alebastr#2053 about qmlgreet
15:13:24 <jkonecny[m]> Don't we want to have it in our  beta ostree builds?
15:14:04 <anthr76[m]> Im just seeing this.. https://gitlab.com/fedora/sigs/sway/ostree-config/-/merge_requests/5
15:14:19 <alebastr[m]> we could, but I want to reach at least 0.1 before adding it to the main branch
15:14:58 <anthr76[m]> I will give it a try in a vm tonight
15:15:11 <alebastr[m]> and that requires some refactoring of the QML code
15:15:42 * alebastr[m] is not an ui/ux expert :(
15:17:47 <Fale[m]> should we reach some agreement on this point or can we move to the next one?
15:18:17 <anthr76[m]> Let's move on for now. We'll cut our teeth a bit more on SDDM and revisit it next meeting
15:18:28 <Fale[m]> +1
15:18:42 <anthr76[m]> #topic List of included software
15:19:15 <anthr76[m]> This is a bit too big for how over time we are and I'd prefer to skip over it unless anyone has anything big
15:19:31 <anthr76[m]> I think we should add nmtui
15:19:47 <alebastr[m]> you are not using nm-applet? :)
15:20:33 <anthr76[m]> No, but maybe I should. Can you configure networking with it?
15:21:23 <alebastr[m]> yes. and there's nm-connection-editor which goes in the same package IIRC
15:22:21 <alebastr[m]> small issues: nm-applet requires functional tray (not the default swaybar), and I think --indicator is still not default
15:22:49 <anthr76[m]> Sounds good. I can check that out.
15:22:51 <anthr76[m]> I used it for a few days when I first started using sway then nuked it
15:23:09 <jkonecny[m]> nm-connection-editor is used in anaconda BTW. Not something I would prefer to have here
15:23:09 <alebastr[m]> so someone would have to haunt nm-applet upstream until they agree to make --indicator default on wayland
15:24:05 <jkonecny[m]> nmtui + nmapplet is +1 for me
15:24:09 <anthr76[m]> alebastr: have you used nmtui?
15:24:11 <anthr76[m]> * used nmtui? :)
15:24:35 <jkonecny[m]> Why we need --indicator by default?
15:25:00 <jkonecny[m]> We can run it with this option in the Sway config
15:25:17 <alebastr[m]> jkonecny: because the default is GtkStatusIcon which is X11 only
15:26:23 <jkonecny[m]> I don't see that as blocker. More like nice to have
15:26:38 <alebastr[m]> anthr76: just now I haven't found an option to select a wifi network from the list of available and connect to it
15:27:17 <alebastr[m]> you need to obtain ssid by other means and put it into a new connection dialog
15:28:26 <alebastr[m]> ah. it's in Activate Connection
15:29:08 <anthr76[m]> Ah, nm-applet is already in our tree.
15:29:17 <alebastr[m]> ok. then we can have both
15:29:22 <anthr76[m]> We need to clean up our swaybar config soon.
15:30:08 <anthr76[m]> Yeah we can discuss more later. To me nm-applet was nice for network connections at a glance  and nmtui was a nice interactive way for configuring them
15:30:27 <anthr76[m]> I'm going to move on unless anyone has anything else?
15:31:23 <alebastr[m]> I wanted to suggest adding mpv... but we can install that from flathub, right?
15:31:55 <anthr76[m]> Yep https://flathub.org/apps/details/io.mpv.Mpv
15:31:56 <Fale[m]> isn't mpv in rpmfusion?
15:32:20 <alebastr[m]> no, it was moved to Fedora this week. but only f37+
15:32:31 <Fale[m]> then I'm +1
15:32:44 <alebastr[m]> appears that it only required ffmpeg and it's already in Fedora
15:33:40 <anthr76[m]> I'm +1 for adding it on the traditional spin but not Sericea :P
15:34:02 <Fale[m]> I would +1 for both
15:34:18 <anthr76[m]> IIRC by F38 we're going to be able to (somehow) ship flathub apps by default
15:35:41 <alebastr[m]> it won't be on the installation iso though. the proposal was about allowing unfiltered flathub repo
15:35:47 <anthr76[m]> Would there be anything stopping us adding a alias somewhere like `alias mpv="flatpak run io.mpv.Mpv"`
15:35:47 <anthr76[m]> Seems kinda hacky but an option if that's the reason why you're against it Fale
15:35:58 <Fale[m]> why not installing it from the repos?
15:36:35 <Fale[m]> @anthr76 I'm +1 on adding mpv on both spin and sericea
15:36:42 <anthr76[m]> alebastr[m]: Ah ok I thought there was a way to specify default applications to include as flatpaks somehow
15:36:53 <anthr76[m]> * flatpaks somehow, and since having an unfiltered flathub you can take your pick from there
15:37:42 <anthr76[m]> Fale[m]: I would argue not having it on ostree reduces bloat and added deps for `rpm-ostree` to manage. I would like to see only critical RPMs on ostree and everything else a flatpak
15:38:23 <alebastr[m]> we can allow unfiltered flathub because it's flathub's headache to care about patents, but we can't add obviously patent-infringing apps to the artifacts shipped by Fedora :(
15:38:26 <anthr76[m]> > <@fale:fale.io> why not installing it from the repos?
15:38:26 <anthr76[m]> * I would argue not having it on sericea reduces bloat and added deps for `rpm-ostree` to manage. I would like to see only critical RPMs (or something not packaged as a flatpak) on sericea and everything else a flatpak
15:38:43 <alebastr[m]> so there is a way to add flatpaks to the installer, but it can't be used here
15:38:52 <anthr76[m]> Ok, got it.
15:39:08 <anthr76[m]> Maybe mpv (sadly) makes sense as a default video player
15:39:35 <anthr76[m]> I must say that a tough one though. At times I really like the tree minimal
15:39:40 <anthr76[m]> * say that's a
15:39:54 <alebastr[m]> the point against mpv is that any gui option from flathub will have it's own copy of mpv
15:40:49 <alebastr[m]> s/it's/its/
15:42:27 <alebastr[m]> <anthr76[m]> "I'm +1 for adding it on the..." <- we can add it to the comps (extended) and exclude from ostree
15:43:45 <anthr76[m]> I prefer that idea.
15:43:54 <anthr76[m]> but we can discuss it more later
15:44:05 * anthr76[m] will try to remember to update the issue tracker today
15:46:17 <anthr76[m]> #topic openfloor
15:46:37 <anthr76[m]> I do have a Dr appointment coming up and I must get ready to head out. This was supposed to be the quick meeting :)
15:47:42 <anthr76[m]> There was some other topics I wanted to discuss but I think coming up with sericea was a big win
15:48:01 <anthr76[m]> I'll keep this open for a few minutes longer then end the meeting.
15:48:09 <alebastr> feel free to close the meeting then. I need to be going to the office too
15:48:42 <anthr76[m]> #endmeeting