16:01:21 <alebastr[m]> #startmeeting Fedora Sway SIG (2022-12-05)
16:01:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec  5 16:01:21 2022 UTC.
16:01:21 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:01:21 <zodbot> The chair is alebastr[m]. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
16:01:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_sway_sig_(2022-12-05)'
16:01:39 <alebastr[m]> #topic Roll Call
16:01:40 <Fale[m]> .hello fale
16:01:41 <zodbot> Fale[m]: fale 'Fabio Alessandro Locati' <me@fale.io>
16:01:44 <anthr76[m]> .hello anthr76
16:01:45 <zodbot> anthr76[m]: anthr76 'Anthony Rabbito' <hello@anthonyrabbito.com>
16:01:53 <alebastr[m]> .hello alebastr
16:01:56 <zodbot> alebastr[m]: alebastr 'Aleksei Bavshin' <alebastr89@gmail.com>
16:05:00 <alebastr[m]> Thanks to Fale we did a great progress towards our goal. So I don't see anything outstanding to discuss, and the only things tagged with 'meeting' on the issue tracker are usual software selection stuff.
16:05:14 <jkonecny[m]> . hello jkonecny
16:05:15 <zodbot> jkonecny[m]: jkonecny 'Jiří Konečný' <jkonecny@redhat.com>
16:05:33 <alebastr[m]> Let's talk about the remaining tasks?
16:07:42 <alebastr[m]> We have 3 months until code complete, so it's better to start remembering these crucial things which will totally affect user experience if we don't implement that
16:08:23 <alebastr[m]> #topic Spin development progress and planning
16:09:04 <anthr76[m]> In terms of UX does anyone have a "biggest to do" in mind?
16:09:14 <anthr76[m]> I still think the SDDM vs Greetd is top of mind for me
16:10:51 <alebastr[m]> anthr76[m]: I wouldn't give it that much priority. We've settled on a solution (sddm-x11) and we can't remove `@base-x` from ostree anyways (yet).
16:11:40 <Fale[m]> what else is depending on @base-x?
16:12:07 <alebastr[m]> but on that topic, I think I figured out why ostree user management cannot handle greetd. will try to fix a package
16:12:19 <alebastr[m]> s/a/the/
16:12:37 <alebastr[m]> Fale[m]: nothing else :)
16:13:06 <Fale[m]> so not sure why we can not remove @base-x from ostree anyway
16:14:44 <anthr76[m]> alebastr[m]: I'm curious to know what is was?
16:15:17 <alebastr[m]> Fale: right now - sddm may fail to start without the necessary Xorg drivers. when we sort that out and merge initial changes to workstation-ostree-config, I could send a PR to move base-x from common packages to spins
16:15:45 <Fale[m]> makes sense, thanks
16:18:28 <alebastr[m]> so there's two things that are immediately visible when you boot live (if it still boots, of course) - lack of any instructions and default waybar config
16:19:23 <anthr76[m]> Ah yes
16:19:41 <anthr76[m]> I'd love to make Waybar better but I think we can agree instructions take precedence?
16:19:43 <jkonecny[m]> yeah, lack of instructions
16:20:39 <jkonecny[m]> I would like to take a look on both but probably won't have power to do that ☹️
16:22:38 <alebastr[m]> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2104366 - nwg-wrapper was recently added to the repos, so we can use that
16:22:48 <jkonecny[m]> that is great
16:23:33 <jkonecny[m]> I wonder, where should I create a PR if I'll get it there -- to pagure or our gitlab fork?
16:24:44 <alebastr[m]> we can add something to sway-config-fedora that is only enabled for live environment
16:25:07 <anthr76[m]> Is there a good way to know if you’re in the live-environment?
16:25:28 <Fale[m]> If possible, I would try to wait for a few days so that the current version gets merged in the Fedora official repo, and then we can iterate there
16:25:34 <jkonecny[m]> alebastr[m]: no reason for that. You can add packages directly in the live kickstart
16:25:45 <jkonecny[m]> we don't need to mess with the comps for this
16:26:13 <jkonecny[m]> ahh, you mean the package with configurations -- my bad
16:26:21 <jkonecny[m]> but still the same response
16:26:21 <alebastr[m]> it's not about comps, we need to add Sway config and the text itself
16:26:36 <jkonecny[m]> for nwg-wrapper it could be (and probably should be) generated by kickstart
16:27:07 <jkonecny[m]> no reason to package that if it's used only on Live
16:28:27 <alebastr[m]> jkonecny: I think we were moving all the code from ks to livesys-scripts, so it should go there.
16:29:09 <alebastr[m]> but I also think that the text should be in the package. something like README.live in the config pkg
16:29:19 <jkonecny[m]> ohh, the livesys change, I didn't looked on that in detail yet
16:31:18 <alebastr[m]> do you want to take care of that? I can say for sure that I won't be able to do it myself in time :(
16:36:29 <alebastr[m]> ...awkward silence
16:36:29 <alebastr[m]> any other volunteers?
16:37:04 <anthr76[m]> Umm. I can try, but I've been having a hard time sticking to timelines
16:37:31 <jkonecny[m]> sorry, I wasn't here ☹️
16:37:39 <AndreasGerlach[m> <anthr76[m]> "I still think the SDDM vs Greetd..." <- Using greetd with gtk-greet quite successfully in ManjaroARM project
16:37:52 <jkonecny[m]> I will try to handle the wrapper, at least I'll find out the livesys-scripts changes
16:38:21 <jkonecny[m]> might have time to do that this Friday (we have Day of Learning in work)
16:39:45 <alebastr[m]> AndreasGerlach[m: I'm aware that other distributions are using greetd and we talked about that a lot. It is just not a general purpose solution - incapable of launching other DEs and lacks session support.
16:40:38 * Fale[m] would prefer a single login manager for all Fedora flavours, but I doubt it will happen in the near future
16:41:05 <alebastr[m]> I don't consider Fedora spin a specialized single purpose environment - if you can't install and run i3 on a Sway spin installation, that is a bad UX
16:42:27 <alebastr[m]> well, you can't install and run Sway on i3 spin because lightdm :(
16:42:29 <AndreasGerlach[m> <alebastr[m]> "so there's two things that are..." <- You may want to have a look here: https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/applications/arm-profiles/-/blob/master/overlays/sway/etc/skel/.config/waybar/config
16:46:10 <alebastr[m]> hm. swaymsg exec \\$pulseaudio is an interesting idea. I never thought you can use config variables that way
16:49:53 <alebastr[m]> btw, for the livecd text story we may need to fix builds in our kickstart fork. pretty sure it doesn't have any of Fale's changes for groups, livesys-scripts, etc
16:50:19 <alebastr[m]> so if I push updated comps to the copr repo it'll break
16:52:42 * alebastr[m] makes a note to fix that this evening
16:55:39 <AndreasGerlach[m> <alebastr[m]> "hm. swaymsg exec \\$pulseaudio..." <- I did a bunch of experiments for the customization and configuration… wanted the edition to be as flexible as Regolith is for i3. Hardest part was the consistent theming across all components
16:56:01 <alebastr[m]> anthr76: since jkonecny took livecd setup, do you want to work on waybar config?
16:56:57 <anthr76[m]> I have zero creativity so I do feel like I won't be able to come up with anything worth while but hopefully I can take some inspiration from Andreas Gerlach :)
16:57:00 <anthr76[m]> So yes sure
16:57:21 <anthr76[m]> I've actually toyed with some configs that I never pushed because I wasn't satisfied enough
16:59:06 <alebastr[m]> AndreasGerlach[m: consistent theming is going to be a major pain point. Would appreciate any advice/examples.
16:59:06 <alebastr[m]> We'll have to stuck with Adwaita though, because we're not as free in customization.
17:01:26 <anthr76[m]> +1
17:02:02 <alebastr[m]> let me add tasks to the meeting notes
17:02:45 <alebastr[m]> #action jkonecny to take a look at the livecd installation instructions
17:03:06 <alebastr[m]> #action anthr76 to work on waybar config
17:04:09 <anthr76[m]> I hope once I'm caught up with school my time will be more free. We're so close :)
17:04:23 <anthr76[m]> Huge thanks to Fale alebastr for pushing things along last week
17:04:48 <AndreasGerlach[m> > <@alebastr:fedora.im> consistent theming is going to be a major pain point. Would appreciate any advice/examples.
17:04:48 <AndreasGerlach[m> > We'll have to stuck with Adwaita though, because we're not as free in customization.
17:04:48 <AndreasGerlach[m> Yeah as we have moved to gtk4 in ManjaroARM as well I recently updated the themes to adwaita and adw-gtk3 as well
17:06:44 <AndreasGerlach[m> I settled on the following approach: there is a theme directory containing theme-specific config files - https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/applications/arm-profiles/-/tree/master/overlays/sway/etc/sway/themes/matcha-blue
17:07:35 <AndreasGerlach[m> those are used in some startup scripts to configure terminal, gtk2,3,4, waybar, our launcher etc.pp.
17:08:30 <AndreasGerlach[m> https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/applications/arm-profiles/-/tree/master/overlays/sway/etc/skel/.config/sway/themes
17:10:03 <AndreasGerlach[m> Most of the styling is just done by linking the proper theme.css to the .config/<waybar,…> folder and refer to the variables from their css stylesheet
17:10:30 <anthr76[m]> That is quite styled :)
17:10:44 <anthr76[m]> I'd love to have the level of consistency here
17:11:10 <AndreasGerlach[m> … folder and then refer to the variables in the theme.css from the app specific stylesheet
17:11:28 <AndreasGerlach[m> https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/applications/arm-profiles/-/blob/master/overlays/sway/etc/skel/.config/waybar/style.css#L10
17:13:40 <alebastr[m]> I almost started thinking that my planned approach of sticking to our workstation team's defaults (default styles for gtk, adwaita-qt for Qt) is not enough :)
17:15:54 <alebastr[m]> Andreas Gerlach: thanks a lot! I'll see what we can use without getting too far from upstream defaults.
17:16:36 <jkonecny[m]> Honestly, we can fix the default config later after the spin. The defaults are sane even though not perfect
17:17:07 <anthr76[m]> Andreas Gerlach: I heard Fedora is getting pretty good for arm :P
17:17:13 <jkonecny[m]> Maybe one of the future users would help us 😉
17:17:47 <AndreasGerlach[m> some packages were also picked cause of running on ARM - e.g. Alacritty didn’t work for us as most of the ARM devices lack proper GPU accel
17:19:02 <alebastr[m]> I believe we've been avoiding alacritty for the same reason.
17:19:12 <AndreasGerlach[m> package list: https://gitlab.manjaro.org/manjaro-arm/applications/arm-profiles/-/blob/master/editions/sway#L44
17:21:25 <AndreasGerlach[m> anthr76[m]: Have it running in UTM on my M1… workstation at the moment, but would like to see the sway spin soon ;)
17:26:46 <alebastr[m]> before I close the meeting - we need someone to work on https://gitlab.com/fedora/sigs/sway/SIG/-/issues/16 - IME stuff
17:28:07 <alebastr[m]> it's one of the things that is complicated to set up and will affect users
17:29:20 <alebastr[m]> Ideally, we'd need to find someone who uses IM and already had things set up. But I don't think it'll be that easy :(
17:29:53 <jkonecny[m]> No experience on my side 😞
17:30:18 <jkonecny[m]> Just know that this caused me issues in far away past
17:31:21 <anthr76[m]> I have a few Ukrainian colleagues that use sway that type in Ukrainian. I wonder if they've needed IME
17:31:24 <anthr76[m]> I can poke them about it
17:32:01 <anthr76[m]> I'm skimming through this, but I'm not seeing (yet) what actually needs to be done https://github.com/ibus/ibus/issues/2182
17:32:14 <alebastr[m]> no, I don't think so. ua is one of the standard layouts
17:32:25 <alebastr[m]> it's more about CJK
17:32:36 <anthr76[m]> Ah got it.
17:34:38 <anthr76[m]> I mean I can poke around with it, but I must admit I'm no where near a SME in that field
17:35:16 <anthr76[m]> How is IME supposed to work? IE Can I emulate something works with a US keyboard layout?
17:36:50 <alebastr[m]> you switch to a Japanese IM, type something and it suggests you to pick one of the japanese symbols
17:37:32 <alebastr[m]> that's the extent of my knowledge on the topic
17:38:09 <jkonecny[m]> AFAIK you type Japan or other special characters by latin
17:38:24 <alebastr[m]> and yes, it should work with any physical keyboard
17:38:30 <anthr76[m]> Got it.
17:39:06 <anthr76[m]> Maybe I can have my wife beta test. Being spanish speaking. She just avoids accent symbols at this point because I don't know the first thing :)
17:39:21 <alebastr[m]> I feel like we'll have to recruit someone to test that stuff
17:41:13 <anthr76[m]> I have self assigned the issue. I'll at least try to add some more context by next meeting and have something I think works
17:41:19 <anthr76[m]> * I have self assigned the issue. I'll at least try to add some more context by next meeting or maybe have something I think works
17:41:31 <anthr76[m]> In the meantime I'll crunch on if we have someone test
17:41:41 <alebastr[m]> Thanks!
17:41:51 <anthr76[m]> Surely if we have something we think works we can recruit folks during test days
17:42:10 <anthr76[m]> It does seem like it's somewhat of a not simple feat at least with UX and the way sway is
17:43:21 <alebastr[m]> yep. given that https://github.com/swaywm/sway/pull/5890 is not merged, there will be some bad UX in the apps that use wayland protocol directly
17:43:51 <alebastr[m]> gtk/qt can use their internal IM integration
17:44:05 <anthr76[m]> Fun :)
17:45:54 <anthr76[m]> We should see if @siosm:matrix.org wants to pop in on our next meeting.
17:46:29 * anthr76[m] will ask ChatGPT how to implement IME in Sway
17:46:54 <alebastr[m]> So everyone has something to work on for the next 2 weeks.
17:46:54 <alebastr[m]> Anyone has something important to discuss?
17:48:01 <alebastr[m]> anthr76: I thought you want a separate meeting to talk about CI with siosm
17:49:37 <anthr76[m]> That's fine too.
17:49:54 <anthr76[m]> I figured why not have it during the meeting so anyone else can have input if wanted
17:52:31 <alebastr[m]> I assume that silence means nothing else to discuss :)
17:52:34 <alebastr[m]> #endmeeting