14:59:12 <cschalle> #startmeeting Fedora Workstation
14:59:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 26 14:59:12 2016 UTC.  The chair is cschalle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:59:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:59:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_workstation'
15:00:01 * elliot007 is here
15:00:23 <mclasen> .hello mclasen
15:00:24 <zodbot> mclasen: mclasen 'Matthias Clasen' <mclasen@redhat.com>
15:00:41 <kalev> .hello kalev
15:00:42 <zodbot> kalev: kalev 'Kalev Lember' <klember@redhat.com>
15:00:51 <elliot007> .hello ankitrgadiya
15:00:52 <zodbot> elliot007: ankitrgadiya 'Ankit R Gadiya' <ankit4922@gmail.com>
15:01:00 <cschalle> #chair mclasen
15:01:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle mclasen
15:01:52 <cschalle> #chair otaylor rdieter_work
15:01:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle mclasen otaylor rdieter_work
15:02:16 <elliot007> (I'm new trying to fit in, I'll mostly observe)
15:02:41 <cschalle> #chair kalev ryanlerch
15:02:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle kalev mclasen otaylor rdieter_work ryanlerch
15:03:00 <cschalle> ok, lets get started
15:03:23 <cschalle> we don't have a big agenda, but I have a couple of topics. 3rd party apps and Fedora Workstation 26
15:04:06 <rdieter> hi
15:04:10 <cschalle> So to start with 3rd party apps, I did send in a formal proposal for Chrome as a 3rd party app some time ago, but I am not sure if we ever got around to formally discussing that here or giving it a formal vote
15:04:14 <cschalle> #chair rdieter
15:04:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle kalev mclasen otaylor rdieter rdieter_work ryanlerch
15:04:31 <cschalle> anyone got any comments on Chrome specifically?
15:05:17 <cschalle> #chair juhp_
15:05:17 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle juhp_ kalev mclasen otaylor rdieter rdieter_work ryanlerch
15:05:21 <kalev> looks like the appdata patch is still pending for review or something, https://codereview.chromium.org/2424093003
15:05:27 <juhp_> thanks
15:06:01 <cschalle> kalev, yeah, although I was CC'ed on an email from Pawel at Google today saying he was trying to push it through now
15:06:06 <kalev> ahh awesome
15:06:40 <cschalle> juhp_, we are discussing Chrome and the proposal to include it
15:06:47 <otaylor> cschalle: do you have a link to the proposal handy? it woudl be good for the minutes anyways
15:06:58 <mclasen> I don't think there's much risk if the appdata lands a bit later - the app will simply not show up in search, I assume ?
15:07:20 * kalev nods.
15:07:50 <cschalle> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/4ZTCAA4V6FL6QEBJMDRXL2JNHQ4MPRUL/
15:07:57 <juhp_> I just saw the thread before the meeting-time... and was wondering what is the main advantage now of chrome vs chromium?
15:08:22 <cschalle> juhp_, I responded to the email. Flash and H264 I think are the biggest ones
15:08:28 <juhp_> ah thanks
15:08:32 <juhp_> okay
15:08:42 <cschalle> which also tend to be among the main reasons why people want to switch away from Firefox to begin with
15:08:53 <juhp_> I see
15:09:17 <mcatanzaro> Hi, could someone pastebin what I missed please? (Will be arriving a bit late for the next couple of months.)
15:09:19 <cschalle> in that regard, do the OpenH264 plugin we now offer from Cisco also enable H264 in Firefox?
15:09:33 <cschalle> #chair mcatanzaro
15:09:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: cschalle juhp_ kalev mcatanzaro mclasen otaylor rdieter rdieter_work ryanlerch
15:09:49 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, 1 sec
15:10:16 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, http://pastebin.com/hCghzPZa
15:10:54 <cschalle> ok, no other questions about Chrome? Then I suggest we just do a formal vote to approve it for inclusion in the fedora-workstation-repos package
15:11:13 <juhp_> no plans to offer flash-plugin I guess? ;)
15:11:49 <cschalle> juhp_, I think I seen that Adobe is supposed to start offering it again, but I haven't checked recently, but if they are we could look into it
15:12:05 <cschalle> ok, so lets start the vote: +1 from me
15:12:08 <rdieter> +1
15:12:09 <otaylor> +1
15:12:12 <mcatanzaro> FYI I just sent a mail to the list, I don't think either Flash (which is being removed from Chrome soon) nor Hangouts (which is supported in Chromium) are reasons to prefer Chrome to Chromium.
15:12:14 <mclasen> +1
15:12:29 * mcatanzaro needs to read the chat log before voting
15:12:48 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, are they supported in Chromium? I thought the h264 support isn't there? at least not in our Chromium
15:13:49 <cschalle> if it is, it is likely a problem :)
15:14:13 <mcatanzaro> cschalle: I'm not completely sure, but I *think* we have Hangouts working without h264 in a downstream project just by using the enable hangouts build flag. I can check and get back to you.
15:14:27 <cschalle> unless you can do hangouts with VP9 these days
15:14:39 <mcatanzaro> Anyway, +1 to Chrome regardless
15:14:44 <juhp_> +1
15:15:05 <cschalle> ok, so 5 votes for, and one absent
15:15:19 <kalev> +1
15:16:37 <cschalle> ok, second 3rd party topic. We are doing a lot of work around enabling optimus support and also the binary Nvidia driver, Simone Caronni is hosting the binary driver for us on negativo17, but I have not formally proposed it yet as we are still fighting with a lot of bugs/issues to make sure it doesn't risk breaking anyones system
15:17:12 <cschalle> but for those interested in a preview you can look here:
15:17:12 <cschalle> http://negativo17.org/nvidia-driver/
15:17:59 <otaylor> cschalle: Do we have the necessary gnome-software bits to make installing that make sense?
15:18:02 <cschalle> atm I am not 100% sure we will have it working enough to have it ship as a F25 launch feature, but hopefully we can look at adding it post the F25 release date
15:18:11 <cschalle> otaylor, yes
15:18:11 <mcatanzaro> cschalle: And what is your solution to the binary driver breaking on major kernel updates?
15:18:25 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, Hans is working on a DNF plugin to resolve that
15:18:29 <Southern_Gentlem> cschalle, how is that better than the rpmfusion drivers
15:18:31 <mcatanzaro> I should not that we have the amdgpu driver for AMD graphics now, so we can just tell people to buy AMD hardware instead.
15:18:45 <mcatanzaro> cschalle: That does no good for us, dnf plugins are not used by GNOME Software.
15:19:00 <cschalle> Southern_Gentlem, its a separate repo and he has been tweaking it in collaboration with us to match what the graphics team wants to see
15:19:06 <mclasen> its better by not being rpmfusion
15:19:06 <otaylor> mcatanzaro: don't think that's how it works :-)
15:19:33 <otaylor> mcatanzaro: there's work under way to make falling back from nvidia to nouveau work if the kernel module is missing - a lot of moving pieces to that though
15:19:34 <mcatanzaro> mclasen++ ;)
15:19:49 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, I was actually planning to ask Hans about how his plans line up with G-S, but yes we need a similar solution for that
15:19:50 <otaylor> mcatanzaro: it sounds like it might be feasible for f26
15:20:44 <cschalle> Southern_Gentlem, we are not able to enable repos that contains lots of stuff in general, as each piece needs to be vetted individually
15:21:53 <Southern_Gentlem> cschalle,  well rpmfusion has supported fedora for a lot of years and i think this could be considered a slap in their face
15:21:57 <cschalle> there is also a glvnd copr from Adam Jackson one needs to test this, let me find the link
15:22:25 <cschalle> Southern_Gentlem, well Simone is also a rpmfusion contributor, so its not like this is done by someone hating on rpmfusion
15:23:00 <mcatanzaro> Southern_Gentlem: We can't point to rpmfusion for legal reasons and there's nothing we can do about that, sorry.
15:23:44 <cschalle> Adam Jacksons copr- https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/ajax/glvnd/
15:23:46 <Southern_Gentlem> those same legal reasons should be on negativo17 as well
15:24:29 <mcatanzaro> Southern_Gentlem: What does negativo17 ship that you think would cause a legal problem? The nvidia stuff is all redistributable, no?
15:24:36 <cschalle> Southern_Gentlem, no, the difference is as I said between having an individual repo with 1 specific thing in it and having a big repo with many different things in it, the legal review of the first is a lot simpler/viable compared to the other
15:25:25 <cschalle> Southern_Gentlem, so if there for instance is 100 packages in a repo, then if legal has a problem with just one of them we can not point to it
15:25:52 <Southern_Gentlem> mcatanzaro, double check that
15:27:06 <cschalle> ok, so onto next topic F26
15:27:26 <mcatanzaro> Southern_Gentlem: I believe the legal team has to approve it before we're allowed to enable it, so don't worry about legal. :)
15:27:33 <mcatanzaro> That's not our job anyway.
15:27:49 <cschalle> we been very focused on Fedora Workstation 25, but I think the time has come to start thinking seriously about Fedora Workstation 26 features
15:28:17 * rdieter has a concern that negativo repo may have a low bus/eaten-by-raptor number (1?)
15:28:33 <cschalle> we have of course our old tasklist, so I suggest people start by taking a look at that and updating/revising as needed and we can maybe go through it inour next meeting
15:29:28 <cschalle> rdieter, well there is always that chance, but Simone has been running his repos for years now and has committed to doing this for us, so hopefully he is dependable, but if he does go away, yes we do need to find an alternative. Of course longer term we hope NVidia themselves will handle this
15:32:24 <cschalle> ok, if there are no further items or comments I guess we can close the meeting?
15:32:24 <otaylor> cschalle: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Tasklist is the task list you are talking about?
15:32:27 <cschalle> yes
15:34:23 <cschalle> so please everyone look at that, and mclasen and I will try to also add a formal F26 section to it and move things from F25 and Future into the F26 collumn based on our best guesses for how things are progressing
15:35:47 <cschalle> ok some quick googling seems to say hangouts is using vp8 these days, so maybe Chromium is more viable than it used to be
15:36:18 <juhp_> aha
15:36:57 <cschalle> anyway, lets do some testing and we can revisit this topic next time if needed
15:37:01 <cschalle> #endmeeting