17:59:54 <rishi> #startmeeting FESCo (2015-04-15)
17:59:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 15 17:59:54 2015 UTC.  The chair is rishi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:07 <rishi> #meetingname fesco
18:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
18:00:22 <rishi> #chair ajax dgilmore jwb mitr nirik paragan rishi thozza sgallagh
18:00:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: ajax dgilmore jwb mitr nirik paragan rishi sgallagh thozza
18:00:26 <rishi> #topic init process
18:00:28 <jwb> hi
18:00:29 <nirik> morning
18:00:29 <ajax> somewhat here (and will miss next week)
18:00:30 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
18:00:31 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
18:00:35 <mitr> Hello
18:00:37 <thozza> good evening  :)
18:00:46 <sgallagh> I'm semi-here. (Working on Beta RC2 release validation)
18:00:57 <paragan> Hi
18:01:36 * rishi pokes  dgilmor
18:01:39 <rishi> dgilmore:
18:02:06 <dgilmore> hi rishi
18:03:12 <rishi> #topic #1416 F22 Changes - Progress at Change Checkpoint: Change Checkpoint: 100% Code Complete Deadline
18:03:40 <rishi> Let's start with this one since both dgilmore and walters are here.
18:03:56 <nirik> .fesco 1416
18:03:57 <zodbot> nirik: #1416 (F22 Changes - Progress at Change Checkpoint: Change Checkpoint: 100% Code Complete Deadline) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1416
18:04:33 <nirik> so I think we didn't update this one right after last meeting.
18:04:54 <nirik> we rescoped the atomic host change to not include the pxe/live image and the rest was done?
18:05:04 <dgilmore> RC2 delivered the install iso
18:05:12 <dgilmore> nirik: yes
18:05:36 <nirik> so, I think we can close this one unless jreznik had anything more ?
18:06:10 <jwb> yay
18:06:20 <ajax> i like closing things
18:06:25 * rishi looks at jreznik
18:06:26 <jreznik> nirik: I think so
18:06:36 <rishi> I guess we don't need to vote.
18:06:44 * jreznik votes, close!
18:07:27 <rishi> Proposal:  close the ticket, it's done.
18:07:32 <rishi> +1
18:07:43 <thozza> rishi: +1
18:07:44 <ajax> +!
18:07:46 <paragan> +1, yes we can close #1416 ticket
18:07:46 <nirik> +1
18:08:09 <sgallagh> +1
18:08:10 <mitr> +1
18:08:20 <dgilmore> +1
18:08:37 <rishi> #agreed Close the ticket, it's done (+7)
18:09:22 <rishi> What happened to the bot?
18:09:35 <jreznik> rishi: do you want me to close it or you'll do it?
18:10:03 <rishi> jreznik: I will close it.
18:10:04 <thozza> rishi: it does not log on agreed
18:10:13 <jreznik> thanks
18:10:13 <nirik> rishi: it doesn't say anything on agree. but will appear in the minutes. ;)
18:10:15 <rishi> thozza: Ok. :)
18:10:23 <rishi> Moving on ...
18:10:25 <rishi> #topic #1428 cloud vagrant box
18:10:32 <rishi> .fesco 1428
18:10:34 <zodbot> rishi: #1428 (cloud vagrant box) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1428
18:11:12 <nirik> so I guess this was in a change that got merged into atomic host, but didn't get added there or discussed with releng?
18:11:18 <dgilmore> I am -1 to adding anything extra at this point. we added what the change owners had asked pre alpha
18:11:28 <dgilmore> they never said anything was missing
18:11:48 <dgilmore> until walters filed the ticket
18:11:58 <walters> as i said in the ticket, this was my fault as I was consolidating Atomic changes, but that Change was also for the mainline cloud
18:12:10 <dgilmore> even when I said it would need a change when replying to the patch they never said there was already one
18:12:16 <nirik> This sort of thing would be helped by a deliverables list
18:13:02 <ajax> also this isn't "adding anything extra" afaict?
18:13:04 <ajax> it's removing two things
18:13:20 <dgilmore> ajax: no, it is adding new things
18:13:26 <nirik> no, it's adding a vagrant image for the non atomic cloud instance
18:13:34 <nirik> if I got that right. ;)
18:13:38 <walters> correct
18:14:09 <nirik> it's unclear if we will be doing an rc3 at this point...
18:14:09 <walters> the earliest revision to that change: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Changes/Vagrant_Box_Atomic&oldid=401385
18:15:08 <nirik> so, yeah, -1 and lets add it for f23.
18:15:55 <dgilmore> there has been a lot of time for people to say hey it is missing. I think it is too late for inclusion
18:16:02 <dgilmore> lets get it in F23
18:16:17 <rishi> Proposal:  push it to F23
18:16:19 <mitr> -1 at this point
18:16:20 <paragan> it looks late request, consider for F23
18:16:26 <sgallagh> Yeah, the eve of an already slipped Beta Go/No-Go is too late. -1
18:16:45 <rishi> -1, if rel-eng says it is too late then it is late
18:18:03 <jwb> that's 5 (nirik, rishi, sgallagh, paragan, dgilmore)
18:18:27 <thozza> I'm also for moving it to F23
18:18:37 <thozza> so -1 for inclusion in F22
18:18:41 <rishi> jwb: Was waiting for the others.
18:19:06 <jwb> 0 from me.  i didn't read this for some reason so i'm not voting on it
18:19:20 <rishi> ajax: ?
18:19:39 <jwb> on the face of it, i'd be more worried about QA impacts of yet-another-thing than the actual rel-eng work to be done
18:19:40 <ajax> 0, having read it it doesn't seem like too much work to me, but apparently i am not the domain expert so whatever
18:19:48 <rishi> #agreed Push it to F23 (-6)
18:20:08 <rishi> #topic #1427 List of release blocking deliverables
18:20:18 <rishi> .fesco 1427
18:20:19 <zodbot> rishi: #1427 (List of release blocking deliverables) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1427
18:20:23 <dgilmore> adding it from my side is not that hard, but websites and QA will be on the hook for extra work also
18:20:24 <mitr> jwb: yeah, as far as workload goes.  OTOH we have so many deliverables now that rushing another one in is not all that appealing either.
18:21:26 <ajax> that proposal text looks sane
18:21:35 <mitr> +1 to having the proposed list.  Not all that concerned about procedure.
18:21:51 <nirik> do we want this for f22 final? or just start with f23?
18:21:51 <dgilmore> I am all for making it clearer before Alpha, everything that is supposed to ship in a release, and if it is to be considered release blocking or not
18:21:58 <dgilmore> nirik: I think f23
18:21:59 <mitr> (i.e. I can debate it for 30 minutes if necessary but don’t particularly want to.)
18:22:01 <ajax> f23
18:22:17 <jwb> f23
18:22:20 <sgallagh> F23
18:22:31 <thozza> F23 ;) (hopefully) I think it is too late anyway for F22
18:22:41 <nirik> ok, I think the process around dropping something from blocking is premature, but I don't care that much, so sure, +1 (and this should be codified on the wiki as a fesco policy, and we should start the f23 one NOW)
18:22:59 <jreznik> f23, although initial list for final would be nice to have an overview of what we are really going to release (without sign off)
18:23:01 <mitr> F23; for F22 having rel-eng and QA have a shared understanding would be nice but in practice we are seem to be able to decide if necessary.
18:23:02 <jwb> nirik, i agree.  but i don't think we'll actually have to worry about it so it won't matter
18:23:03 <rishi> Proposal:  Have a list of release blocking deliverables for F23
18:23:04 <paragan> start with F23
18:23:15 <ajax> rishi: +1
18:23:25 <dgilmore> rishi: +1
18:23:26 <paragan> rishi, +1
18:23:28 <mitr> rishi: +1
18:23:30 <nirik> jwb: right
18:23:32 <thozza> +1
18:23:32 <jwb> +1
18:23:33 <nirik> +1
18:23:36 <jreznik> rishi: not only release blocking but it's just implementation detail
18:23:42 <sgallagh> rishi: patch: Proposal: have a list of release blocking deliverables for F23 at least two weeks before Alpha Freeze.
18:23:45 <rishi> Do we add the bit about "making it clearer before Alpha" ?
18:23:50 <jreznik> I'll try to move forward with it and I'll let you know
18:23:58 <rishi> sgallagh:  Ah, right.
18:24:11 <dgilmore> I think we do want it before Alpha
18:24:15 <ajax> yes sure fine
18:24:16 <jreznik> yes
18:24:21 <rishi> +1 to sgallagh 's patch
18:24:39 <mitr> sgallagh: *shrug* any of the interested parties can just not vote +1
18:25:11 <jreznik> patch: Proposal: have a list of release deliverables for F23 at least two weeks before Alpha Freeze with release blocking deliverables marked
18:25:13 <sgallagh> mitr: Sorry, I must have missed somethign.
18:25:20 <mitr> Targeting a date before the freeze (so that at least the discussion gets properly started) is useful though.
18:25:34 * jwb sighs
18:25:35 <rishi> jreznik: Isn't the list about the blocking deliverables?
18:25:48 <rishi> Or are there going to non-blocking deliverables too?
18:26:04 <dgilmore> rishi: we have a lot of non blocking deliverables
18:26:05 <jwb> we seem to be getting into an "obviously good idea->debate details during a meeting that can be worked out offline" trend lately
18:26:14 <jreznik> rishi: it is but if you take a look on comments in the ticket, I agree it makes sense to have full list
18:26:34 <mitr> jwb: s/lately/as has always been the case/
18:26:35 <rishi> jwb: Yeah. :)
18:26:38 <dgilmore> jreznik: yes we need full details. lets get it sorted on the ticket
18:26:39 <nirik> indeed.
18:26:40 <rishi> jreznik: Ok.
18:26:47 <jreznik> jwb: it's in ticket, for me what's enough is "go for it come in a few weeks with final result"
18:26:52 <jwb> mitr, no, frankly.  it hasn't always been the case.  it ebbs and flows but it's getting worse.
18:27:06 <rishi> I don't see any real opposition to jreznik 's proposal . So ...
18:27:28 <nirik> is someone on the hook to write things up? jreznik or sgallagh ? or if they are both busy I can...
18:27:38 <mitr> jwb: Perhaps I’m just misremembering.  OTOH the alternative is to have forever-open tickets with noone thinking about alternatives because that ticket is not on their schedule.
18:28:02 <rishi> #agreed Have a list of release deliverables for F23 at least two weeks before the Alpha Freeze with release blocking deliverables marked.
18:28:13 <jwb> so we waste everyone's time trying to do it adhoc in a meeting?  sorry, if you're in FESCo you need to figure out how to work offline.
18:28:21 <jreznik> nirik: ?
18:28:33 <ajax> quite,
18:28:51 <ajax> anyway, there's little left on the agenda, and i have some errands to run before going on pto
18:28:55 <rishi> #topic Open Floor
18:29:01 <ajax> so if nobody needs me for open floor...
18:29:11 <nirik> jreznik: this needs to be on a wiki page as fesco policy and we also need a wiki page for the 23 deliverables. ;) I just wanted to make sure someone was goign to do that...
18:29:20 * nirik has nothing for open floor
18:29:26 <rishi> ajax: I guess you don't want to be the chair next week? :)
18:30:09 <ajax> i wouldn't be able to make it, sorry
18:30:13 <jwb> i can
18:30:22 <jreznik> nirik: sure, I'll start it but any help from you and others is always more than welcomed
18:30:30 <rishi> #topic Next week's chair
18:30:49 <nirik> jreznik: sure. ping me to review or if you want me to work on any of it. Happy to help
18:31:01 <jreznik> nirik: sure, thanks!
18:31:03 <rishi> #info jwb will chair next week's meeting
18:31:10 <rishi> Anything else?
18:31:32 * jreznik has nothing
18:31:44 <rishi> Otherwise I will close it in two minutes.
18:32:00 <sgallagh> /me has nothing
18:32:31 <jreznik> btw. we're (with help of jkurik, he's helping me recently) going to propose F23 schedule for next week's meeting
18:33:05 <rishi> jreznik: ok
18:33:33 <rishi> #info jreznik and jkurik will propose the F23 schedule next week
18:33:44 <rishi> Thanks, everyone!
18:33:45 <rishi> #endmeeting