17:59:54 #startmeeting FESCo (2015-04-15) 17:59:54 Meeting started Wed Apr 15 17:59:54 2015 UTC. The chair is rishi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:54 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:07 #meetingname fesco 18:00:07 The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 18:00:22 #chair ajax dgilmore jwb mitr nirik paragan rishi thozza sgallagh 18:00:22 Current chairs: ajax dgilmore jwb mitr nirik paragan rishi sgallagh thozza 18:00:26 #topic init process 18:00:28 hi 18:00:29 morning 18:00:29 somewhat here (and will miss next week) 18:00:30 .hello sgallagh 18:00:31 sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' 18:00:35 Hello 18:00:37 good evening :) 18:00:46 I'm semi-here. (Working on Beta RC2 release validation) 18:00:57 Hi 18:01:36 * rishi pokes dgilmor 18:01:39 dgilmore: 18:02:06 hi rishi 18:03:12 #topic #1416 F22 Changes - Progress at Change Checkpoint: Change Checkpoint: 100% Code Complete Deadline 18:03:40 Let's start with this one since both dgilmore and walters are here. 18:03:56 .fesco 1416 18:03:57 nirik: #1416 (F22 Changes - Progress at Change Checkpoint: Change Checkpoint: 100% Code Complete Deadline) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1416 18:04:33 so I think we didn't update this one right after last meeting. 18:04:54 we rescoped the atomic host change to not include the pxe/live image and the rest was done? 18:05:04 RC2 delivered the install iso 18:05:12 nirik: yes 18:05:36 so, I think we can close this one unless jreznik had anything more ? 18:06:10 yay 18:06:20 i like closing things 18:06:25 * rishi looks at jreznik 18:06:26 nirik: I think so 18:06:36 I guess we don't need to vote. 18:06:44 * jreznik votes, close! 18:07:27 Proposal: close the ticket, it's done. 18:07:32 +1 18:07:43 rishi: +1 18:07:44 +! 18:07:46 +1, yes we can close #1416 ticket 18:07:46 +1 18:08:09 +1 18:08:10 +1 18:08:20 +1 18:08:37 #agreed Close the ticket, it's done (+7) 18:09:22 What happened to the bot? 18:09:35 rishi: do you want me to close it or you'll do it? 18:10:03 jreznik: I will close it. 18:10:04 rishi: it does not log on agreed 18:10:13 thanks 18:10:13 rishi: it doesn't say anything on agree. but will appear in the minutes. ;) 18:10:15 thozza: Ok. :) 18:10:23 Moving on ... 18:10:25 #topic #1428 cloud vagrant box 18:10:32 .fesco 1428 18:10:34 rishi: #1428 (cloud vagrant box) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1428 18:11:12 so I guess this was in a change that got merged into atomic host, but didn't get added there or discussed with releng? 18:11:18 I am -1 to adding anything extra at this point. we added what the change owners had asked pre alpha 18:11:28 they never said anything was missing 18:11:48 until walters filed the ticket 18:11:58 as i said in the ticket, this was my fault as I was consolidating Atomic changes, but that Change was also for the mainline cloud 18:12:10 even when I said it would need a change when replying to the patch they never said there was already one 18:12:16 This sort of thing would be helped by a deliverables list 18:13:02 also this isn't "adding anything extra" afaict? 18:13:04 it's removing two things 18:13:20 ajax: no, it is adding new things 18:13:26 no, it's adding a vagrant image for the non atomic cloud instance 18:13:34 if I got that right. ;) 18:13:38 correct 18:14:09 it's unclear if we will be doing an rc3 at this point... 18:14:09 the earliest revision to that change: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Changes/Vagrant_Box_Atomic&oldid=401385 18:15:08 so, yeah, -1 and lets add it for f23. 18:15:55 there has been a lot of time for people to say hey it is missing. I think it is too late for inclusion 18:16:02 lets get it in F23 18:16:17 Proposal: push it to F23 18:16:19 -1 at this point 18:16:20 it looks late request, consider for F23 18:16:26 Yeah, the eve of an already slipped Beta Go/No-Go is too late. -1 18:16:45 -1, if rel-eng says it is too late then it is late 18:18:03 that's 5 (nirik, rishi, sgallagh, paragan, dgilmore) 18:18:27 I'm also for moving it to F23 18:18:37 so -1 for inclusion in F22 18:18:41 jwb: Was waiting for the others. 18:19:06 0 from me. i didn't read this for some reason so i'm not voting on it 18:19:20 ajax: ? 18:19:39 on the face of it, i'd be more worried about QA impacts of yet-another-thing than the actual rel-eng work to be done 18:19:40 0, having read it it doesn't seem like too much work to me, but apparently i am not the domain expert so whatever 18:19:48 #agreed Push it to F23 (-6) 18:20:08 #topic #1427 List of release blocking deliverables 18:20:18 .fesco 1427 18:20:19 rishi: #1427 (List of release blocking deliverables) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1427 18:20:23 adding it from my side is not that hard, but websites and QA will be on the hook for extra work also 18:20:24 jwb: yeah, as far as workload goes. OTOH we have so many deliverables now that rushing another one in is not all that appealing either. 18:21:26 that proposal text looks sane 18:21:35 +1 to having the proposed list. Not all that concerned about procedure. 18:21:51 do we want this for f22 final? or just start with f23? 18:21:51 I am all for making it clearer before Alpha, everything that is supposed to ship in a release, and if it is to be considered release blocking or not 18:21:58 nirik: I think f23 18:21:59 (i.e. I can debate it for 30 minutes if necessary but don’t particularly want to.) 18:22:01 f23 18:22:17 f23 18:22:20 F23 18:22:31 F23 ;) (hopefully) I think it is too late anyway for F22 18:22:41 ok, I think the process around dropping something from blocking is premature, but I don't care that much, so sure, +1 (and this should be codified on the wiki as a fesco policy, and we should start the f23 one NOW) 18:22:59 f23, although initial list for final would be nice to have an overview of what we are really going to release (without sign off) 18:23:01 F23; for F22 having rel-eng and QA have a shared understanding would be nice but in practice we are seem to be able to decide if necessary. 18:23:02 nirik, i agree. but i don't think we'll actually have to worry about it so it won't matter 18:23:03 Proposal: Have a list of release blocking deliverables for F23 18:23:04 start with F23 18:23:15 rishi: +1 18:23:25 rishi: +1 18:23:26 rishi, +1 18:23:28 rishi: +1 18:23:30 jwb: right 18:23:32 +1 18:23:32 +1 18:23:33 +1 18:23:36 rishi: not only release blocking but it's just implementation detail 18:23:42 rishi: patch: Proposal: have a list of release blocking deliverables for F23 at least two weeks before Alpha Freeze. 18:23:45 Do we add the bit about "making it clearer before Alpha" ? 18:23:50 I'll try to move forward with it and I'll let you know 18:23:58 sgallagh: Ah, right. 18:24:11 I think we do want it before Alpha 18:24:15 yes sure fine 18:24:16 yes 18:24:21 +1 to sgallagh 's patch 18:24:39 sgallagh: *shrug* any of the interested parties can just not vote +1 18:25:11 patch: Proposal: have a list of release deliverables for F23 at least two weeks before Alpha Freeze with release blocking deliverables marked 18:25:13 mitr: Sorry, I must have missed somethign. 18:25:20 Targeting a date before the freeze (so that at least the discussion gets properly started) is useful though. 18:25:34 * jwb sighs 18:25:35 jreznik: Isn't the list about the blocking deliverables? 18:25:48 Or are there going to non-blocking deliverables too? 18:26:04 rishi: we have a lot of non blocking deliverables 18:26:05 we seem to be getting into an "obviously good idea->debate details during a meeting that can be worked out offline" trend lately 18:26:14 rishi: it is but if you take a look on comments in the ticket, I agree it makes sense to have full list 18:26:34 jwb: s/lately/as has always been the case/ 18:26:35 jwb: Yeah. :) 18:26:38 jreznik: yes we need full details. lets get it sorted on the ticket 18:26:39 indeed. 18:26:40 jreznik: Ok. 18:26:47 jwb: it's in ticket, for me what's enough is "go for it come in a few weeks with final result" 18:26:52 mitr, no, frankly. it hasn't always been the case. it ebbs and flows but it's getting worse. 18:27:06 I don't see any real opposition to jreznik 's proposal . So ... 18:27:28 is someone on the hook to write things up? jreznik or sgallagh ? or if they are both busy I can... 18:27:38 jwb: Perhaps I’m just misremembering. OTOH the alternative is to have forever-open tickets with noone thinking about alternatives because that ticket is not on their schedule. 18:28:02 #agreed Have a list of release deliverables for F23 at least two weeks before the Alpha Freeze with release blocking deliverables marked. 18:28:13 so we waste everyone's time trying to do it adhoc in a meeting? sorry, if you're in FESCo you need to figure out how to work offline. 18:28:21 nirik: ? 18:28:33 quite, 18:28:51 anyway, there's little left on the agenda, and i have some errands to run before going on pto 18:28:55 #topic Open Floor 18:29:01 so if nobody needs me for open floor... 18:29:11 jreznik: this needs to be on a wiki page as fesco policy and we also need a wiki page for the 23 deliverables. ;) I just wanted to make sure someone was goign to do that... 18:29:20 * nirik has nothing for open floor 18:29:26 ajax: I guess you don't want to be the chair next week? :) 18:30:09 i wouldn't be able to make it, sorry 18:30:13 i can 18:30:22 nirik: sure, I'll start it but any help from you and others is always more than welcomed 18:30:30 #topic Next week's chair 18:30:49 jreznik: sure. ping me to review or if you want me to work on any of it. Happy to help 18:31:01 nirik: sure, thanks! 18:31:03 #info jwb will chair next week's meeting 18:31:10 Anything else? 18:31:32 * jreznik has nothing 18:31:44 Otherwise I will close it in two minutes. 18:32:00 /me has nothing 18:32:31 btw. we're (with help of jkurik, he's helping me recently) going to propose F23 schedule for next week's meeting 18:33:05 jreznik: ok 18:33:33 #info jreznik and jkurik will propose the F23 schedule next week 18:33:44 Thanks, everyone! 18:33:45 #endmeeting