18:01:26 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2015-12-16) 18:01:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 16 18:01:26 2015 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:01:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:01:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2015-12-16)' 18:01:26 <nirik> #meetingname fesco 18:01:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 18:01:26 <nirik> #chair ajax dgilmore number80 jwb nirik paragan rishi thozza sgallagh 18:01:26 <nirik> #topic init process 18:01:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: ajax dgilmore jwb nirik number80 paragan rishi sgallagh thozza 18:01:38 * nirik needs to update the wiki page apparently too. ;) 18:01:42 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion 18:01:46 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh 18:01:48 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com> 18:01:51 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com> 18:01:57 <jsmith> .hello jsmith 18:01:58 <jkurik> .hello jkurik 18:02:01 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com> 18:02:04 <zodbot> jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' <jkurik@redhat.com> 18:02:13 <kalev> .hello kalev 18:02:14 <zodbot> kalev: kalev 'Kalev Lember' <klember@redhat.com> 18:02:17 <paragan> .hello pnemade 18:02:17 <jwb> Hi 18:02:18 <zodbot> paragan: pnemade 'Parag Nemade' <pnemade@redhat.com> 18:02:28 <maxamillion> (random side note, I'm literally in a car driving down the interstate tethering over my cellphone in a part of the country with spotty reception so it's possible I will be dropped off ... I'll do my best to participate) 18:02:57 * jkurik just updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Engineering_Steering_Committee#Members 18:03:35 <dgilmore> I will be here in 15 minutes 18:03:37 <dgilmore> or so 18:03:44 <nirik> jkurik: can you update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FESCo_meeting_process too? 18:03:48 <maxamillion> jkurik++ 18:03:49 <zodbot> maxamillion: Karma for jkurik changed to 5 (for the f23 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 18:04:03 <nirik> I sent an agenda a few minutes ago to devel list. Sorry for the late send 18:04:08 <number80> .hello hguemar 18:04:09 <zodbot> number80: hguemar 'Haïkel Guémar' <karlthered@gmail.com> 18:04:28 <jwb> Yay new members 18:04:45 <jwb> Thanks to the old members 18:04:58 <sgallagh> If it's not on the agenda yet, can we cover the new meeting time? 18:05:08 <nirik> indeed, many thanks. :) your service is appreciated. ;) 18:05:11 <sgallagh> I've already got Dennis's input, so we don't have to wait for him. 18:05:12 <jkurik> nirik: I will check what is obsolete and will fix it 18:05:18 <nirik> sgallagh: should we do that first? 18:05:30 <nirik> jkurik: just the list of irc nicks in the meeting template I think 18:06:03 <sgallagh> nirik: Works for me 18:06:04 <nirik> #info Many thanks to exiting members and welcome to those just joining 18:06:10 <nirik> #topic New meeting time/date 18:06:19 <sgallagh> #link http://whenisgood.net/5s3rtkw/results/xjtdckp 18:06:23 <jwb> When we do this we need to make sure we don't conflic with some other existing meeting 18:06:37 <jwb> Or move to a different channel 18:06:53 <number80> I don't mind using another channel though 18:07:11 <sgallagh> Yeah, using this channel is less important than getting everyone here 18:07:21 <jsmith> Agreed :-) 18:07:23 <sgallagh> So we have two slots remaining that have only a single conflict; both are maxamillion 18:07:52 <sgallagh> maxamillion: Are you truly blocked at noon EST on both Wednesday and Friday? 18:08:10 <maxamillion> sgallagh: let me double check 18:08:28 <nirik> friday is kinda a bummer of a day for meeting, but oh well. 18:08:43 <maxamillion> sgallagh: Wednesday is Fedora Cloud WG at that time 18:09:04 <sgallagh> maxamillion: And Friday? 18:09:09 <maxamillion> sgallagh: Friday I can make work 18:09:23 <maxamillion> nirik: sorry :( 18:09:40 <sgallagh> Proposal: FESCo meetings will be held on Fridays at 1700 UTC 18:09:41 <jwb> It's more incentive to get done on time 18:09:47 <sgallagh> jwb++ 18:09:47 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for jwboyer changed to 4 (for the f23 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 18:10:06 <jwb> +1 18:10:08 <nirik> no biggie. ;) Mostly it's that friday is I think the most common day to have holidays fall on, etc... 18:10:10 <maxamillion> +1 18:10:13 <number80> +1 18:10:14 <nirik> but sure, +1 18:10:16 <paragan> +1 18:10:44 <nirik> thats +5? 18:11:09 <sgallagh> nirik: I also have a +1 from dgilmore in #fedora-releng earlier 18:11:28 <nirik> #agreed Meetings will move to fridays at 17:00UTC in #fedora-meeting. (+7,0,0) 18:11:47 <nirik> ok, I assume we will not meet the 18th, 25th or 1st? 18:11:59 <sgallagh> nirik: +1 18:12:19 <nirik> so, 2016-01-08 will be the next meeting? 18:12:29 <maxamillion> +1 18:12:36 <jsmith> Even thought it's a long time, that works for me. +1 18:12:38 <kalev> +1 18:12:54 <sgallagh> Anything that comes up in the interim can be discussed by email 18:13:00 <sgallagh> Or in tickets, etc 18:13:03 <nirik> alright, anything else on this, or shall we move on to agenda? 18:13:32 <nirik> #topic #1478 F24 Self Contained Changes 18:13:32 <nirik> .fesco 1478 18:13:32 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1478 18:13:35 <zodbot> nirik: #1478 (F24 Self Contained Changes) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1478 18:13:54 <jwb> I'm fine with these 18:13:54 <nirik> +1, both those seem fine 18:13:58 <sgallagh> +2 18:13:58 <paragan> +1 18:14:08 <jsmith> +1 to both 18:14:17 <number80> +1 to both 18:14:18 <kalev> +1 to both 18:14:22 * dgilmore is here now 18:14:28 <maxamillion> one of them is mine, should I abstain? 18:14:38 <number80> maxamillion: nope 18:14:43 <jwb> No 18:14:45 <maxamillion> +1 to both 18:14:55 <maxamillion> :) 18:15:13 <dgilmore> +1 to both 18:15:15 <nirik> #agreed no problems with self contained changes this week. Approved (+9,0,0) 18:15:29 <nirik> #topic #1513 F24 System Wide Change: Layered Docker Image Build 18:15:29 <nirik> .fesco 1513 18:15:29 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1513 18:15:30 <zodbot> nirik: #1513 (F24 System Wide Change: Layered Docker Image Build Service) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1513 18:15:49 <dgilmore> +1 to this 18:16:07 <maxamillion> +1 18:16:09 <dgilmore> though we still have a lot of details to sort out 18:16:11 <sgallagh> +1 18:16:12 <jwb> I think I'm plus one 18:16:15 <number80> +1 18:16:18 <dgilmore> registry hosting, shipping etc 18:16:23 <paragan> +1 18:16:31 <nirik> +1 here, but yes, it's going to be a lot of details to sort. 18:16:41 <dgilmore> but this is about being able to build a new type of artifact 18:16:49 <kalev> does this add a new type of deliverable? 18:16:51 <maxamillion> dgilmore: yeah, we're actively working with the pulp team on that, they are very happy to be engaging in the fedora space and it's going well ... I'm hopeful :) 18:16:57 <jsmith> +0, due to lack of details on some parts of this proposal 18:17:02 <dgilmore> cockpit bypassed doing things correctly in f22 18:17:24 <dgilmore> and is shipping something they claim as part of fedora completely outside teh control of fedora 18:17:28 <maxamillion> kalev: it does, it will allow Fedora to deliver docker images 18:17:35 <number80> From Cloud SIG perspective, this is an important feature, and fallback means we'll delay this to F25 18:17:44 <maxamillion> kalev: via the build system, using fedpkg, distgit, koji, etc 18:17:52 <maxamillion> number80: +1 18:18:02 <dgilmore> kalev: it is a new deliverable 18:18:03 <kalev> ahhh, I thought it was about a new image! makes sense now 18:18:17 <dgilmore> kalev: its a whole new artifact 18:18:18 <maxamillion> jsmith: if there are areas you'd like more information, please let me know and I would be happy to clarify in places where it's needed 18:18:27 <maxamillion> jsmith: we can follow up off meeting about that, email or otherwise 18:18:30 <jsmith> maxamillion: Of course... 18:18:34 <jsmith> maxamillion: Will chat with you offline 18:18:49 <jsmith> maxamillion: (and once I've had a chance to better articulate myself) 18:18:52 <maxamillion> jsmith: +1 - thanks, I'd appreciate the feedback :) 18:19:06 <kalev> my only concern is that this makes the list of deliverables even bigger than it right now is, making it harder to properly test everything 18:19:11 <kalev> otherwise +1 :) 18:19:42 <number80> yeah, but we need this to fit better within the docker ecosystem 18:20:00 * kalev nods. 18:20:01 <nirik> #agreed Change is approved (+8,0,1) 18:20:16 <jsmith> number80: I'm not against that -- I just want to make sure we do it in the right way :-) 18:20:18 <maxamillion> kalev: yeah, the QA pipeline is something we have plans to automate as part of ongoing work in the Fedora Cloud SIG ... hopefully it will be minimal impact to the current efforts 18:20:21 <jwb> Er... 18:20:47 <jwb> nirik: is that a -1 or a 0 18:20:51 <nirik> jwb: was your "I think I'm plus one, not a plus one? 18:20:57 <jwb> The order is always unclear 18:21:11 <nirik> jsmith voted +0... I never know either. ;) 18:21:16 <jwb> Im + 1 18:21:17 <sgallagh> I usually say -0 to be explicit 18:21:29 <jsmith> sgallagh++ 18:21:29 <zodbot> jsmith: Karma for sgallagh changed to 4 (for the f23 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 18:21:31 * nirik will just start expanding them 18:22:15 <nirik> #agreed Change is approved (+8 for, 0 against, 1 abstain) 18:22:24 <nirik> #topic #1515 F24 System Wide Change: Ruby 2.3 18:22:24 <nirik> .fesco 1515 18:22:24 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1515 18:22:25 <zodbot> nirik: #1515 (F24 System Wide Change: Ruby 2.3) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1515 18:22:39 <jwb> +1 18:22:41 <nirik> +1 18:22:44 <sgallagh> /me gets out his stamp 18:22:46 <sgallagh> +1 18:22:52 <maxamillion> +1 18:22:55 <paragan> +1 18:22:59 <kalev> +1 18:23:17 <number80> +1 18:23:18 <kalev> this would be nice to land as early as possible though 18:23:31 <jsmith> +1 18:23:39 <dgilmore> +1 18:23:41 <nirik> #agreed Change is approved (+9 for, 0 against, 0 abstain) 18:23:42 <number80> I'd like to see a list of incompatible packages too 18:23:44 <jsmith> And +1 to kalev's comment about landing early 18:23:54 <dgilmore> ideally it lands asap 18:24:13 <nirik> #topic #1516 F24 System Wide Change: Pungi Refactor 18:24:14 <nirik> .fesco 1516 18:24:14 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1516 18:24:15 <zodbot> nirik: #1516 (F24 System Wide Change: Pungi Refactor) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1516 18:24:21 <dgilmore> +1 obviously 18:24:25 <maxamillion> +1 18:24:26 <nirik> +1 18:24:30 <sgallagh> +1 18:24:35 <jwb> +1 18:24:35 <kalev> +1 18:24:39 <paragan> +1 18:24:39 <nirik> dgilmore: how far off is using the new pungi for rawhide? 18:24:47 <number80> +1 18:24:59 <jsmith> +1, but I'd love more details on how difficult it will be to roll back in the contingency plan 18:25:07 <nirik> #agreed Change is approved (+9 for, 0 against, 0 abstain) 18:25:11 <dgilmore> nirik: well livemedia-creator is looking to be an unsuitable tool and I feel bad for pushing it without the full details. 18:25:34 <dgilmore> I am tyring to get things complete enough to change rawhide before break 18:26:01 <dgilmore> jsmith: we use the old tools and fix any bugs we encounter 18:26:09 <jwb> having to rename an iso makes it unsuitable? 18:26:20 <dgilmore> jwb: no 18:26:31 <dgilmore> jwb: it can not make arm disk images at all 18:26:42 <jwb> i see 18:26:53 <dgilmore> jwb: the output for livecds is highly unfortunate 18:27:04 <dgilmore> but the otehr use case it blows up when trying to run 18:27:26 <nirik> well, hopefully we can work something out. 18:29:09 <nirik> #topic #1514 Policy for autogenerated code 18:29:09 <nirik> .fesco 1514 18:29:10 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1514 18:29:11 <zodbot> nirik: #1514 (Policy for autogenerated code) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1514 18:29:17 <nirik> so, this hasn't really had any discussion... 18:29:20 <jwb> i'd really like to defer this 18:29:29 <nirik> I wonder if we shouldn't bring up a thread on the devel list for people to mull over it. 18:29:30 <nirik> yeah. 18:29:32 <sgallagh> jwb: I agree 18:29:41 <jwb> nirik: that would be a good idea 18:29:43 <kalev> I was going to suggest that as well 18:29:44 <jsmith> jwb: I think that's a good idea 18:29:51 <number80> +1 for deferring 18:30:00 <sgallagh> This may also require Council input 18:30:01 <nirik> does someone want to start that discussion? or should I ask tibbs to do so? or ? 18:30:15 <sgallagh> Insofar as we have to define what level of "freedom" is mandated 18:30:22 <nirik> true. 18:30:39 <nirik> #info will defer any decision on this for now. 18:30:49 <jwb> nirik: perhaps tibbs should kick it off if he's willing 18:30:50 <sgallagh> nirik: I started this avalanche, I guess I should bring it up on the list 18:30:50 <nirik> #info allow discussion on devel and possibly council lists. 18:30:58 <maxamillion> +1 18:30:58 <jwb> or sgallagh 18:31:09 <jwb> someone more immediately familiar with the situation than the rest of us :) 18:31:29 <nirik> ok, works for me. ;) Thanks sgallagh 18:31:41 <jsmith> WORKSFORME 18:31:42 <nirik> #action sgallagh to start a discussion. 18:31:55 <nirik> #topic next years chair 18:32:06 <nirik> Who wants to chair the 2015-01-08 meeting? 18:32:16 <dgilmore> I can 18:32:20 <sgallagh> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FESCo_meeting_process 18:32:25 <sgallagh> (For the benefit of the new members) 18:32:29 <maxamillion> sgallagh: +1 thanks 18:32:40 <jsmith> dgilmore++ 18:32:41 <zodbot> jsmith: Karma for ausil changed to 17 (for the f23 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 18:32:45 <maxamillion> dgilmore++ 18:32:46 <zodbot> maxamillion: Karma for ausil changed to 18 (for the f23 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 18:32:53 <nirik> thanks dgilmore 18:33:05 <nirik> #action dgilmore to chair the 2016-01-08 meeting 18:33:08 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 18:33:13 <nirik> anyone have anything for open floor? 18:33:18 * jsmith has nothing 18:33:27 <number80> ditto 18:33:36 <maxamillion> nothing for open floor here 18:34:04 <nirik> ok, will close out in a minute or two then if nothing. 18:35:02 <nirik> Everyone have a safe and happy holdays. 18:35:04 <maxamillion> everyone have a good winter break, holiday, and a happy new year! :) 18:35:12 <nirik> #endmeeting