18:01:26 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2015-12-16)
18:01:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 16 18:01:26 2015 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2015-12-16)'
18:01:26 <nirik> #meetingname fesco
18:01:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
18:01:26 <nirik> #chair ajax dgilmore number80 jwb nirik paragan rishi thozza sgallagh
18:01:26 <nirik> #topic init process
18:01:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: ajax dgilmore jwb nirik number80 paragan rishi sgallagh thozza
18:01:38 * nirik needs to update the wiki page apparently too. ;)
18:01:42 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
18:01:46 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
18:01:48 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
18:01:51 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
18:01:57 <jsmith> .hello jsmith
18:01:58 <jkurik> .hello jkurik
18:02:01 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
18:02:04 <zodbot> jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' <jkurik@redhat.com>
18:02:13 <kalev> .hello kalev
18:02:14 <zodbot> kalev: kalev 'Kalev Lember' <klember@redhat.com>
18:02:17 <paragan> .hello pnemade
18:02:17 <jwb> Hi
18:02:18 <zodbot> paragan: pnemade 'Parag Nemade' <pnemade@redhat.com>
18:02:28 <maxamillion> (random side note, I'm literally in a car driving down the interstate tethering over my cellphone in a part of the country with spotty reception so it's possible I will be dropped off ... I'll do my best to participate)
18:02:57 * jkurik just updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Engineering_Steering_Committee#Members
18:03:35 <dgilmore> I will be here in 15 minutes
18:03:37 <dgilmore> or so
18:03:44 <nirik> jkurik: can you update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FESCo_meeting_process too?
18:03:48 <maxamillion> jkurik++
18:03:49 <zodbot> maxamillion: Karma for jkurik changed to 5 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:04:03 <nirik> I sent an agenda a few minutes ago to devel list. Sorry for the late send
18:04:08 <number80> .hello hguemar
18:04:09 <zodbot> number80: hguemar 'Haïkel Guémar' <karlthered@gmail.com>
18:04:28 <jwb> Yay new members
18:04:45 <jwb> Thanks to the old members
18:04:58 <sgallagh> If it's not on the agenda yet, can we cover the new meeting time?
18:05:08 <nirik> indeed, many thanks. :) your service is appreciated. ;)
18:05:11 <sgallagh> I've already got Dennis's input, so we don't have to wait for him.
18:05:12 <jkurik> nirik: I will check what is obsolete and will fix it
18:05:18 <nirik> sgallagh: should we do that first?
18:05:30 <nirik> jkurik: just the list of irc nicks in the meeting template I think
18:06:03 <sgallagh> nirik: Works for me
18:06:04 <nirik> #info Many thanks to exiting members and welcome to those just joining
18:06:10 <nirik> #topic New meeting time/date
18:06:19 <sgallagh> #link http://whenisgood.net/5s3rtkw/results/xjtdckp
18:06:23 <jwb> When we do this we need to make sure we don't conflic with some other existing meeting
18:06:37 <jwb> Or move to a different channel
18:06:53 <number80> I don't mind using another channel though
18:07:11 <sgallagh> Yeah, using this channel is less important than getting everyone here
18:07:21 <jsmith> Agreed :-)
18:07:23 <sgallagh> So we have two slots remaining that have only a single conflict; both are maxamillion
18:07:52 <sgallagh> maxamillion: Are you truly blocked at noon EST on both Wednesday and Friday?
18:08:10 <maxamillion> sgallagh: let me double check
18:08:28 <nirik> friday is kinda a bummer of a day for meeting, but oh well.
18:08:43 <maxamillion> sgallagh: Wednesday is Fedora Cloud WG at that time
18:09:04 <sgallagh> maxamillion: And Friday?
18:09:09 <maxamillion> sgallagh: Friday I can make work
18:09:23 <maxamillion> nirik: sorry :(
18:09:40 <sgallagh> Proposal: FESCo meetings will be held on Fridays at 1700 UTC
18:09:41 <jwb> It's more incentive to get done on time
18:09:47 <sgallagh> jwb++
18:09:47 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for jwboyer changed to 4 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:10:06 <jwb> +1
18:10:08 <nirik> no biggie. ;) Mostly it's that friday is I think the most common day to have holidays fall on, etc...
18:10:10 <maxamillion> +1
18:10:13 <number80> +1
18:10:14 <nirik> but sure, +1
18:10:16 <paragan> +1
18:10:44 <nirik> thats +5?
18:11:09 <sgallagh> nirik: I also have a +1 from dgilmore in #fedora-releng earlier
18:11:28 <nirik> #agreed Meetings will move to fridays at 17:00UTC in #fedora-meeting. (+7,0,0)
18:11:47 <nirik> ok, I assume we will not meet the 18th, 25th or 1st?
18:11:59 <sgallagh> nirik: +1
18:12:19 <nirik> so, 2016-01-08 will be the next meeting?
18:12:29 <maxamillion> +1
18:12:36 <jsmith> Even thought it's a long time, that works for me. +1
18:12:38 <kalev> +1
18:12:54 <sgallagh> Anything that comes up in the interim can be discussed by email
18:13:00 <sgallagh> Or in tickets, etc
18:13:03 <nirik> alright, anything else on this, or shall we move on to agenda?
18:13:32 <nirik> #topic #1478 F24 Self Contained Changes
18:13:32 <nirik> .fesco 1478
18:13:32 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1478
18:13:35 <zodbot> nirik: #1478 (F24 Self Contained Changes) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1478
18:13:54 <jwb> I'm fine with these
18:13:54 <nirik> +1, both those seem fine
18:13:58 <sgallagh> +2
18:13:58 <paragan> +1
18:14:08 <jsmith> +1 to both
18:14:17 <number80> +1 to both
18:14:18 <kalev> +1 to both
18:14:22 * dgilmore is here now
18:14:28 <maxamillion> one of them is mine, should I abstain?
18:14:38 <number80> maxamillion: nope
18:14:43 <jwb> No
18:14:45 <maxamillion> +1 to both
18:14:55 <maxamillion> :)
18:15:13 <dgilmore> +1 to both
18:15:15 <nirik> #agreed no problems with self contained changes this week. Approved (+9,0,0)
18:15:29 <nirik> #topic #1513 F24 System Wide Change: Layered Docker Image Build
18:15:29 <nirik> .fesco 1513
18:15:29 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1513
18:15:30 <zodbot> nirik: #1513 (F24 System Wide Change: Layered Docker Image Build Service) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1513
18:15:49 <dgilmore> +1 to this
18:16:07 <maxamillion> +1
18:16:09 <dgilmore> though we still have a lot of details to sort out
18:16:11 <sgallagh> +1
18:16:12 <jwb> I think I'm plus one
18:16:15 <number80> +1
18:16:18 <dgilmore> registry hosting, shipping etc
18:16:23 <paragan> +1
18:16:31 <nirik> +1 here, but yes, it's going to be a lot of details to sort.
18:16:41 <dgilmore> but this is about being able to build a new type of artifact
18:16:49 <kalev> does this add a new type of deliverable?
18:16:51 <maxamillion> dgilmore: yeah, we're actively working with the pulp team on that, they are very happy to be engaging in the fedora space and it's going well ... I'm hopeful :)
18:16:57 <jsmith> +0, due to lack of details on some parts of this proposal
18:17:02 <dgilmore> cockpit bypassed doing things correctly in f22
18:17:24 <dgilmore> and is shipping something they claim as part of fedora completely outside teh control of fedora
18:17:28 <maxamillion> kalev: it does, it will allow Fedora to deliver docker images
18:17:35 <number80> From Cloud SIG perspective, this is an important feature, and fallback means we'll delay this to F25
18:17:44 <maxamillion> kalev: via the build system, using fedpkg, distgit, koji, etc
18:17:52 <maxamillion> number80: +1
18:18:02 <dgilmore> kalev: it is a new deliverable
18:18:03 <kalev> ahhh, I thought it was about a new image! makes sense now
18:18:17 <dgilmore> kalev: its a whole new artifact
18:18:18 <maxamillion> jsmith: if there are areas you'd like more information, please let me know and I would be happy to clarify in places where it's needed
18:18:27 <maxamillion> jsmith: we can follow up off meeting about that, email or otherwise
18:18:30 <jsmith> maxamillion: Of course...
18:18:34 <jsmith> maxamillion: Will chat with you offline
18:18:49 <jsmith> maxamillion: (and once I've had a chance to better articulate myself)
18:18:52 <maxamillion> jsmith: +1 - thanks, I'd appreciate the feedback :)
18:19:06 <kalev> my only concern is that this makes the list of deliverables even bigger than it right now is, making it harder to properly test everything
18:19:11 <kalev> otherwise +1 :)
18:19:42 <number80> yeah, but we need this to fit better within the docker ecosystem
18:20:00 * kalev nods.
18:20:01 <nirik> #agreed Change is approved (+8,0,1)
18:20:16 <jsmith> number80: I'm not against that -- I just want to make sure we do it in the right way :-)
18:20:18 <maxamillion> kalev: yeah, the QA pipeline is something we have plans to automate as part of ongoing work in the Fedora Cloud SIG ... hopefully it will be minimal impact to the current efforts
18:20:21 <jwb> Er...
18:20:47 <jwb> nirik: is that a -1 or a 0
18:20:51 <nirik> jwb: was your "I think I'm plus one, not a plus one?
18:20:57 <jwb> The order is always unclear
18:21:11 <nirik> jsmith voted +0... I never know either. ;)
18:21:16 <jwb> Im + 1
18:21:17 <sgallagh> I usually say -0 to be explicit
18:21:29 <jsmith> sgallagh++
18:21:29 <zodbot> jsmith: Karma for sgallagh changed to 4 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:21:31 * nirik will just start expanding them
18:22:15 <nirik> #agreed Change is approved (+8 for, 0 against, 1 abstain)
18:22:24 <nirik> #topic #1515 F24 System Wide Change: Ruby 2.3
18:22:24 <nirik> .fesco 1515
18:22:24 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1515
18:22:25 <zodbot> nirik: #1515 (F24 System Wide Change: Ruby 2.3) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1515
18:22:39 <jwb> +1
18:22:41 <nirik> +1
18:22:44 <sgallagh> /me gets out his stamp
18:22:46 <sgallagh> +1
18:22:52 <maxamillion> +1
18:22:55 <paragan> +1
18:22:59 <kalev> +1
18:23:17 <number80> +1
18:23:18 <kalev> this would be nice to land as early as possible though
18:23:31 <jsmith> +1
18:23:39 <dgilmore> +1
18:23:41 <nirik> #agreed Change is approved (+9 for, 0 against, 0 abstain)
18:23:42 <number80> I'd like to see a list of incompatible packages too
18:23:44 <jsmith> And +1 to kalev's comment about landing early
18:23:54 <dgilmore> ideally it lands asap
18:24:13 <nirik> #topic #1516 F24 System Wide Change: Pungi Refactor
18:24:14 <nirik> .fesco 1516
18:24:14 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1516
18:24:15 <zodbot> nirik: #1516 (F24 System Wide Change: Pungi Refactor) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1516
18:24:21 <dgilmore> +1 obviously
18:24:25 <maxamillion> +1
18:24:26 <nirik> +1
18:24:30 <sgallagh> +1
18:24:35 <jwb> +1
18:24:35 <kalev> +1
18:24:39 <paragan> +1
18:24:39 <nirik> dgilmore: how far off is using the new pungi for rawhide?
18:24:47 <number80> +1
18:24:59 <jsmith> +1, but I'd love more details on how difficult it will be to roll back in the contingency plan
18:25:07 <nirik> #agreed Change is approved (+9 for, 0 against, 0 abstain)
18:25:11 <dgilmore> nirik: well livemedia-creator is looking to be an unsuitable tool and I feel bad for pushing it without the full details.
18:25:34 <dgilmore> I am tyring to get things complete enough to change rawhide before break
18:26:01 <dgilmore> jsmith: we use the old tools and fix any bugs we encounter
18:26:09 <jwb> having to rename an iso makes it unsuitable?
18:26:20 <dgilmore> jwb: no
18:26:31 <dgilmore> jwb: it can not make arm disk images at all
18:26:42 <jwb> i see
18:26:53 <dgilmore> jwb: the output for livecds is highly unfortunate
18:27:04 <dgilmore> but the otehr use case it blows up when trying to run
18:27:26 <nirik> well, hopefully we can work something out.
18:29:09 <nirik> #topic #1514 Policy for autogenerated code
18:29:09 <nirik> .fesco 1514
18:29:10 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1514
18:29:11 <zodbot> nirik: #1514 (Policy for autogenerated code) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1514
18:29:17 <nirik> so, this hasn't really had any discussion...
18:29:20 <jwb> i'd really like to defer this
18:29:29 <nirik> I wonder if we shouldn't bring up a thread on the devel list for people to mull over it.
18:29:30 <nirik> yeah.
18:29:32 <sgallagh> jwb: I agree
18:29:41 <jwb> nirik: that would be a good idea
18:29:43 <kalev> I was going to suggest that as well
18:29:44 <jsmith> jwb: I think that's a good idea
18:29:51 <number80> +1 for deferring
18:30:00 <sgallagh> This may also require Council input
18:30:01 <nirik> does someone want to start that discussion? or should I ask tibbs to do so? or ?
18:30:15 <sgallagh> Insofar as we have to define what level of "freedom" is mandated
18:30:22 <nirik> true.
18:30:39 <nirik> #info will defer any decision on this for now.
18:30:49 <jwb> nirik: perhaps tibbs should kick it off if he's willing
18:30:50 <sgallagh> nirik: I started this avalanche, I guess I should bring it up on the list
18:30:50 <nirik> #info allow discussion on devel and possibly council lists.
18:30:58 <maxamillion> +1
18:30:58 <jwb> or sgallagh
18:31:09 <jwb> someone more immediately familiar with the situation than the rest of us :)
18:31:29 <nirik> ok, works for me. ;) Thanks sgallagh
18:31:41 <jsmith> WORKSFORME
18:31:42 <nirik> #action sgallagh to start a discussion.
18:31:55 <nirik> #topic next years chair
18:32:06 <nirik> Who wants to chair the 2015-01-08 meeting?
18:32:16 <dgilmore> I can
18:32:20 <sgallagh> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FESCo_meeting_process
18:32:25 <sgallagh> (For the benefit of the new members)
18:32:29 <maxamillion> sgallagh: +1 thanks
18:32:40 <jsmith> dgilmore++
18:32:41 <zodbot> jsmith: Karma for ausil changed to 17 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:32:45 <maxamillion> dgilmore++
18:32:46 <zodbot> maxamillion: Karma for ausil changed to 18 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:32:53 <nirik> thanks dgilmore
18:33:05 <nirik> #action dgilmore to chair the 2016-01-08 meeting
18:33:08 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
18:33:13 <nirik> anyone have anything for open floor?
18:33:18 * jsmith has nothing
18:33:27 <number80> ditto
18:33:36 <maxamillion> nothing for open floor here
18:34:04 <nirik> ok, will close out in a minute or two then if nothing.
18:35:02 <nirik> Everyone have a safe and happy holdays.
18:35:04 <maxamillion> everyone have a good winter break, holiday, and a happy new year! :)
18:35:12 <nirik> #endmeeting