17:00:11 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2016-04-15)
17:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Apr 15 17:00:11 2016 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2016-04-15)'
17:00:12 <nirik> #meetingname fesco
17:00:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:00:12 <nirik> #chair maxamillion dgilmore number80 jwb nirik paragan jsmith kalev sgallagh
17:00:12 <nirik> #topic init process
17:00:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: dgilmore jsmith jwb kalev maxamillion nirik number80 paragan sgallagh
17:00:20 <number80> .hello hguemar
17:00:26 <zodbot> number80: hguemar 'Haïkel Guémar' <karlthered@gmail.com>
17:00:44 <paragan> .hello pnemade
17:00:45 <zodbot> paragan: pnemade 'Parag Nemade' <pnemade@redhat.com>
17:00:46 <jkurik> .hello jkurik
17:00:46 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
17:00:48 <zodbot> jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' <jkurik@redhat.com>
17:00:52 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
17:01:17 * nirik waits to see if we have quorum
17:01:36 <jsmith_work> .hello jsmith
17:01:37 <zodbot> jsmith_work: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
17:01:43 <jkurik> nirik: I do not have a vote, so do not count me in
17:01:55 <nirik> :)
17:02:11 <nirik> dgilmore / maxamillion ?
17:02:17 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
17:02:18 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
17:02:20 <maxamillion> sorry
17:02:32 <nirik> ok. we can go ahead and get started...
17:02:51 <maxamillion> meetings on meetings on meetings :)
17:03:11 <nirik> the first one I think we need input from dgilmore on, so perhaps lets push that to the end...
17:03:20 <nirik> #topic #1566 Review of release blocking deliverables for F24
17:03:20 <nirik> .fesco 1566
17:03:20 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1566
17:03:23 <zodbot> nirik: #1566 (Review of release blocking deliverables for F24) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1566
17:04:11 * nirik looks over the list again
17:05:07 <jkurik> the removal of the cloud-net image is IMO not an issue, however dgilmore has indicated incorectnes of the list of deliverables without more details, so it will be nice to have him here
17:05:09 <nirik> I think it looks fine, but we should adjust I think for the current image names (those were taken from a while back)
17:05:24 <maxamillion> nirik: +1
17:05:32 <nirik> also, it would be nice to kill the wiki page and have a list in PDC sometime.
17:05:33 <maxamillion> yeah, the list looks good ... I don't see any real issues tehre
17:05:34 <maxamillion> there*
17:05:37 <maxamillion> nirik: +1
17:05:47 <jkurik> nirik: +1
17:05:52 <jsmith_work> +1 from me --  I don't see anything wrong with the list
17:06:13 <sgallagh> Is Workstation producing an arm32hl media?
17:06:37 <sgallagh> ISTR in F23 we determined that many of the arm devices couldn't handle GNOME
17:06:40 <paragan> +1 looks good
17:06:46 <jsmith_work> Not optical media -- just a disk image, from what I recall
17:07:08 <sgallagh> It's non-blocking, but I just thought we weren't producing it at all.
17:07:35 <nirik> https://pdc.fedoraproject.org/compose/233/images/Workstation/armhfp/
17:07:38 <nirik> still there it seems
17:07:47 <sgallagh> Also, Server isn't producing a 32-bit medium anymore
17:08:07 <sgallagh> Or at least it's not lised on getfedora.org
17:08:24 <sgallagh> (Though I can't remember for sure if that's just because i386 was completely broken at Alpha)
17:08:40 <sgallagh> Broken for all releases, not just Server.
17:08:52 <nirik> it is being produced
17:09:02 <nirik> yes, alpha had a kernel issue.
17:09:06 <nirik> it's fixed since then I think
17:09:58 <nirik> no, I guess not.
17:10:01 <nirik> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/12879/modules/_boot_to_anaconda/steps/3
17:11:02 <nirik> anyhow, it sounds like we are ok with whats there?
17:11:02 <sgallagh> nirik: I'll take it to Open Floor, but we may want to discuss killing off i386 (or preventing upgrades from F23/i386) if the kernel is that badly broken
17:11:43 <maxamillion> proposal: FESCo approves the current list F24 Blocking deliverables as they are written
17:12:17 <jkurik> sounds good to me, no work with updating the page :-)
17:12:25 * nirik would like to hear more on what dgilmore saw as missing, but sure, we can and can discuss that more in ticket or whatever
17:12:38 <jsmith_work> Sounds good to me
17:13:04 <jkurik> nirik: I would like to have a feedback from dgilmore as well
17:13:15 <nirik> so, perhaps we table this for now and move on?
17:13:35 <jsmith_work> I think that's the prudent thing to do
17:13:40 <nirik> sure, lets do
17:13:54 <nirik> #info will table this for now, pending more info from dgilmore on ticket.
17:13:57 <nirik> #topic #1567 Change process - proposal of two new milestones
17:13:57 <nirik> .fesco 1567
17:13:58 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1567
17:13:59 <zodbot> nirik: #1567 (Change process - proposal of two new milestones) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1567
17:14:33 <jsmith_work> To me, these are straightforward...
17:14:46 <nirik> seems fine to me too. +1
17:15:46 <paragan> +1
17:16:11 <nirik> dgilmore was +1 in ticket as was sgallagh (but he can speak for himself)
17:16:14 <sgallagh> +1
17:16:31 <maxamillion> +1
17:16:56 <nirik> #agreed new milestones approved (+6,0,0)
17:17:17 <jkurik> thanks, I will modify the Change process wiki as well as schedule for F25
17:17:50 <nirik> so, the other one I had was also kind of looking for input from dgilmore... but we can discuss it quickly I suppose
17:17:57 <nirik> #topic #1444 Updates deliverables
17:17:57 <nirik> .fesco 1444
17:17:57 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1444
17:17:58 <zodbot> nirik: #1444 (updates deliverables) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1444
17:18:28 <nirik> jkurik: we might need yet another milestone here... the point at which it's decided what deliverables will be updated post GA
17:19:28 <jkurik> nirik: ok, so when such a milestone should be schedulet (relatively to other milestones) ?
17:19:36 <nirik> not fully sure. ;)
17:20:44 <nirik> perhaps after alpha... that way we know what was dropped and whats viable to perhaps update?
17:21:48 <jsmith_work> Seems reasonable...
17:22:06 <jkurik> nirik: for me the Beta Freeze milestone looks like the good time for this, if needed
17:22:21 <nirik> fine with me
17:22:34 <maxamillion> +1
17:23:08 <nirik> other votes?
17:23:51 <number80> +1
17:23:56 <number80> (sorry got disconnected
17:24:03 <sgallagh> Beta freeze seems sensible. +1
17:24:33 <paragan> yes for Beta freeze, +1
17:24:58 <nirik> #agreed will decide updates deliverables by beta freeze milestone (+5,0,0)
17:25:21 <nirik> jkurik: can you get that added to your master list?
17:25:57 <jkurik> nirik: for my correct understanding - this task should be a ticket to FESCo asking to do the review ?
17:26:17 <nirik> yep. to decide the list of deliverables that can get updates post GA.
17:26:34 <jwb> apologies for being late.  not feeling well
17:26:48 <jkurik> ok, I will add it to the schedule and will create the ticket to FESCo when the right time comes
17:26:48 <maxamillion> jwb: hope you feel better :(
17:27:25 <nirik> #topic Next weeks chair
17:27:30 <nirik> who wants next weeks chair?
17:27:37 <jwb> i'll do it
17:28:15 <jwb> penance for being late
17:28:16 <jsmith_work> I will likely miss next week's meeting
17:28:16 <nirik> cool. thanks.
17:28:17 <nirik> sheesh, stupid freenode.
17:28:17 <jsmith_work> I'll be traveling to the UK :-(
17:28:17 <jwb> netsplits are awesome
17:28:17 <nirik> #action jwb to chair next week
17:28:19 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
17:28:31 <nirik> Anyone have anything for open floor?
17:28:32 <jsmith_work> I have an update on ticket 1555
17:28:56 <nirik> yeah. I glanced at it, but haven't had a chance to read it really yet.
17:28:59 <jsmith_work> I finally finished writing up a proposed text change for the "Security Exception" section of the Updates policy
17:29:11 <jsmith_work> Please take a minute and read it, and provide feedback in the ticket
17:29:22 <nirik> thanks for working on that jsmith
17:29:28 <jsmith_work> I mostly stole some of jwb's comments, tried to clarify and simplify a few things, etc.
17:29:29 <sgallagh> nirik: As noted above, I think we should probably talk about i386
17:29:42 <sgallagh> Particularly with Beta Freeze on Tuesday
17:30:10 <nirik> well, we don't have much data really, but ok. ;)
17:30:28 <nirik> jwb: do you know if the i686 kernel bug that was stopping boot is fixed now?
17:30:57 <jwb> it is not
17:31:16 <jwb> it boots in rawhide.  it does not boot in f24.
17:31:31 <nirik> alright.
17:31:39 <jwb> (though apparently some people are still having issues in rawhide so *shrug*)
17:32:21 <sgallagh> So my question to FESCo is whether we should decide not to ship i686 trees to the mirrors in F24
17:32:43 <sgallagh> Since people upgrading to F24 on i686 will probably have an unusable system.
17:33:36 <nirik> well, not sure we need to decide now do we ? or you mean also not in Beta?
17:33:58 <jsmith_work> sgallagh: Seems reasonable to me to not ship i686 trees if they're determined to not be working... but I think we still have some time to make that determination for final, right?
17:34:00 <jwb> i think jforbes was looking to get binutils updated in f24
17:34:18 <jwb> because there's at least a strong correlation with that needing to be updated to fix issues
17:34:31 <nirik> also for upgraders, they could just boot their own kernel... but not forever I guess
17:34:55 <sgallagh> nirik: I'd be concerned about people making the jump at Beta
17:35:17 <nirik> we did ship things at alpha, but didn't advertise images on getfedora
17:35:45 <sgallagh> Sorry folks, just got called to pick up my daughter from daycare.
17:36:14 <nirik> I'm unsure how much work it would be for releng to not ship part of the compose, but we could ask and see...
17:36:47 <dgilmore> sorry I am late
17:37:03 <nirik> hey dgilmore.
17:38:09 * dgilmore would like to make i686 secondary
17:38:20 <dgilmore> and I have a proposal coming in the next few weeks to do that
17:38:24 <dgilmore> but it is for f25
17:38:48 <nirik> yeah. So for f24 beta do we want to try and not ship the trees/images? or just wait and see? or ?
17:39:05 <dgilmore> we disabled building lives and cloud images for 32 bit x86 in Alpha due to them being known busted
17:39:24 <dgilmore> the only think we built and shipped was install trees
17:39:28 <dgilmore> thing
17:39:29 <number80> so i686 tree is in practice a blocker
17:39:56 <dgilmore> number80: it is supposed to eb
17:39:58 <dgilmore> be
17:40:07 <dgilmore> but everyone seems to want to not make it so
17:40:31 <nirik> how is it a blocker? aside from us wanting not to mess up upgrading users?
17:40:42 <number80> then, let's wait and see if it gets solved before beta as nirik suggested
17:41:56 <nirik> I'm ok with waiting, we can always nuke it if it's still broken and we decide thats bad to ship
17:42:23 <dgilmore> we really do not have a good way to nuke it
17:42:46 <dgilmore> but I guess we can figure out what that means and how to do it
17:43:06 <nirik> well, rm -rf should work... ;) but I know we need to update PDC and other metadata about it...
17:43:23 <dgilmore> that is not sufficient
17:43:57 <nirik> so, perhaps a pungi issue on it and we can see what it would take?
17:44:16 <dgilmore> it is a tough place.
17:44:29 <dgilmore> there are a lot of people relying on 32 bit working
17:44:42 <dgilmore> and if we drop it we are essentially doing so without notice
17:44:58 <dgilmore> I would rather we fix it and make a plan to move it to a secondary arch
17:45:13 <dgilmore> with the longer term plan to possibly drop it entirely
17:45:15 <nirik> well, we don't do people service either when they upgrade and can't boot
17:45:24 <dgilmore> right
17:45:42 <nirik> anyhow, lets defer and see what we get before beta
17:46:05 <nirik> Anything else for open floor? or do we want to revist anything now that we have dgilmore here to ask?
17:47:06 <dgilmore> I guess wrap it up nirik
17:47:19 <nirik> ok. ;)
17:47:23 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone
17:47:26 <nirik> #endmeeting