16:00:13 <maxamillion> #startmeeting FESCO (2016-07-22)
16:00:13 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jul 22 16:00:13 2016 UTC.  The chair is maxamillion. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:13 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:13 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2016-07-22)'
16:00:13 <maxamillion> #meetingname fesco
16:00:13 <maxamillion> #chair maxamillion dgilmore number80 jwb nirik paragan jsmith kalev sgallagh
16:00:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
16:00:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: dgilmore jsmith jwb kalev maxamillion nirik number80 paragan sgallagh
16:00:16 <maxamillion> #topic init process
16:00:21 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
16:00:22 <nirik> .hello kevin
16:00:22 <jsmith> .hellomynameis jsmith
16:00:22 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
16:00:25 <zodbot> nirik: kevin 'Kevin Fenzi' <kevin@scrye.com>
16:00:28 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
16:00:30 <paragan> .hello pnemade
16:00:31 <zodbot> paragan: pnemade 'Parag Nemade' <pnemade@redhat.com>
16:01:22 <dgilmore> hi
16:02:22 <maxamillion> well, we have quorum but just barely :)
16:02:28 <number80> o/
16:02:37 <maxamillion> woohoo1
16:02:38 <number80> .hello hguemar
16:02:39 <jsmith> Better than several of the last few weeks...
16:02:39 <zodbot> number80: hguemar 'Haïkel Guémar' <karlthered@gmail.com>
16:02:54 <maxamillion> alright, let's get to it ... the agenda is pretty light today
16:03:24 <maxamillion> #topic Follow Up Items
16:03:28 <maxamillion> #topic #1594 F25 System Wide Change: IBus Emoji Typing
16:03:32 <maxamillion> .fesco 1594
16:03:34 <zodbot> maxamillion: #1594 (F25 System Wide Change: IBus Emoji Typing) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1594
16:03:44 <maxamillion> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1594
16:04:12 <jsmith> From my standpoint, it looks like this is still being discussed on the mailing list -- do other feels this is ready for a vote?
16:04:38 <paragan> jsmith, there is no reply from other person on mailinglist
16:04:46 <paragan> I am not sure how much we need to wait then
16:04:53 <number80> yep
16:05:01 <maxamillion> I'm on the fence, I'm satisfied that node.js isn't a hard dep for distributing the package but it's still a little concerning that it's a whole new stack required for build ...
16:05:03 <paragan> Change owner has given his implementation details
16:05:17 <maxamillion> I wish sgallagh was here as he's well versed in the ways of node.js
16:05:32 <number80> node.js is something we can't ignore ..
16:06:18 <jsmith> Do we want to defer another week until sgallagh can weigh in?
16:06:48 <maxamillion> number80: I'm not saying we should ignore it, I just want to make sure that interested parties are aware of the impact
16:06:49 <paragan> I am +1 as I don't see yet any specific question against this Change
16:07:04 <paragan> if all other people think we should wait for sgallagh, I am okay with that also
16:07:20 <maxamillion> I'm +1 also, node.js is definitely here to stay and we switched to node.js LTS releases so things should be relatively sane as time goes on
16:07:41 <maxamillion> does someone want to make a proposal or should we vote on the change itself?
16:08:00 <jsmith> Proposal: Vote to approve the change
16:08:06 <dgilmore> +1
16:08:14 <number80> +0 Bastien has correct arguments against the implementation
16:08:31 <maxamillion> +1
16:08:36 <paragan> +1
16:08:40 <nirik> I suppose I am a weak +1 we can always adjust or drop things if they don't work out
16:09:00 <maxamillion> jsmith: what say you?
16:09:11 * dgilmore notes next week is branching
16:09:18 <jsmith> +1
16:09:23 <dgilmore> there is not much time for things to get in and be testable
16:09:37 <jsmith> (with notes that there is some disagreement on the mailing list, but I think we can find a way to work things out)
16:09:52 <jsmith> nirik: I agree... it's not carved in stone
16:10:30 <maxamillion> oh wait, everyone voted
16:10:32 * maxamillion tallies
16:11:18 <maxamillion> #agreed FESCo Approves #1594 F25 System Wide Change: IBus Emoji Typing (+1:5, +0:1, -1:0)
16:11:26 <maxamillion> (did I do that right?)
16:11:31 <number80> yes
16:11:33 <dgilmore> si
16:11:34 <maxamillion> thanks
16:11:37 <maxamillion> alright, moving on
16:11:44 * paragan want to note here ibus-uniemoji will soon be in Fedora also, finishing its package review by next week
16:11:55 <maxamillion> #topic New Business
16:12:08 <maxamillion> #topic #1568 F25 Self Contained Changes (Change/Remove slogin and sshd-keygen, GNS3, Rust Compiler)
16:12:14 <maxamillion> .fesco 1568
16:12:16 <zodbot> maxamillion: #1568 (F25 Self Contained Changes) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1568
16:12:19 <maxamillion> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1568#comment:29
16:13:01 <jsmith> +1 to slogin/sshd-keygen
16:13:17 <jsmith> +1 to GNS3
16:13:20 <nirik> +1 to all (hopefully rust folks are working on guidelines)
16:13:26 <maxamillion> +1 to all three
16:13:52 <number80> +1 to all
16:13:56 <paragan> +1 to all
16:14:07 <maxamillion> jsmith: any reservations about rust?
16:14:19 <jsmith> maxamillion: Just checking one thing... gimme 30 seconds, please
16:14:24 <maxamillion> jsmith: certainly :)
16:14:27 <number80> at some point, we'll have to work on it
16:14:34 <jsmith> +1 to Rust Compiler as well --
16:14:41 <maxamillion> we've got all kinds of time, the agenda is super light this week :)
16:14:46 <maxamillion> dgilmore: ?
16:14:50 <jsmith> I'm good -- I found what I was looking for
16:14:57 <maxamillion> jsmith: out of curiosity, what was it?
16:14:58 <dgilmore> maxamillion: was reading the changes
16:15:04 <maxamillion> dgilmore: certainly, take your time
16:15:12 <dgilmore> I am not sure about removing sshd-keygen
16:15:19 <dgilmore> but the rest I am okay with
16:15:33 <jsmith> maxamillion: I was confusing two different things, and I wanted to make sure it wasn't Rust I was concerned about
16:15:41 <maxamillion> jsmith: rgrf
16:16:05 <number80> I'm glad someone is taking care of fixing sshd-keygen
16:16:22 <maxamillion> dgilmore: what about it are you concerned about?
16:16:24 <dgilmore> number80: what do you mean by that statement?
16:16:40 <number80> dgilmore: I mean working on finishing the migration to sytsemd
16:16:49 <maxamillion> dgilmore: it's already gone in rawhide
16:17:05 <dgilmore> maxamillion: well its pretty well documented to use it to generate the keys, I know I have had times where I manually ran it to regnerate the keys
16:17:26 <dgilmore> I am okay doing away with the initscript
16:17:27 <maxamillion> dgilmore: ssh-keygen isn't going away, sshd-keygen is ...
16:17:29 <nirik> dgilmore: you misunderstand. This is the init script to generate host keys
16:17:35 <dgilmore> I just wonder if we should not keep the command
16:17:46 <dgilmore> nirik: thats not how it reads
16:18:08 <dgilmore> 3. Check if you have the files in your system:
16:18:09 <dgilmore> ls /usr/bin/slogin /usr/sbin/sshd-keygen
16:18:09 <dgilmore> ls: cannot access /usr/bin/slogin: No such file or directory
16:18:09 <dgilmore> ls: cannot access /usr/sbin/sshd-keygen: No such file or directory
16:18:17 <maxamillion> dgilmore: correct
16:18:18 <dgilmore> its saying that teh command should be gone
16:18:23 <maxamillion> dgilmore: ssh-keygen is still there
16:18:25 <nirik> sshd-keygen != ssh-keygen
16:18:29 <maxamillion> nirik: +1
16:18:31 <number80> oh I see
16:18:41 <nirik> sshd-keygen is a horrible old script
16:18:45 <number80> removing ssh-keygen is absolute no
16:18:49 <jsmith> nirik: +1
16:18:50 <maxamillion> number80: +1
16:19:01 * nirik isn't sure why this is really a change actually, but I guess some people must depend on it
16:19:09 <dgilmore> okay so its laking in essential data
16:19:14 <dgilmore> lacking
16:19:15 <maxamillion> dgilmore: how so?
16:19:46 <dgilmore> maxamillion: well if I missed some aspects others will also
16:19:47 <maxamillion> I'm not seeing the disconnect or I'm just missing the missing data all together
16:19:51 * maxamillion is confused
16:20:14 <number80> dgilmore: sshd-keygen binary is still around => http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/openssh.git/tree/sshd-keygen@.service#n8
16:20:28 <number80> but I agree that description could be misleading
16:20:58 <maxamillion> alright, so the change proposal needs some new word smithing for clarity
16:20:59 <dgilmore> sshd-keygen and ssh-keygen are really similiar
16:21:11 <dgilmore> there needs to be some docs and communication on it
16:21:18 <dgilmore> maxamillion: yes
16:21:26 <number80> *nods*
16:21:26 <maxamillion> +1
16:21:37 <nirik> perhaps a note that ssh-keygen is unaffected and will continue to work as expected?
16:21:45 <maxamillion> is that grounds to not approve the change though? (I'm asking in earnest, this is uncharted territory for me as a FESCo member)
16:21:48 <dgilmore> why an initscript was a command in /usr/sbin is odd
16:21:58 <dgilmore> and as it did something odd it needs extra clarity
16:22:00 <nirik> it's ancient.
16:22:39 <number80> maxamillion: we can request minor changes to the maintainers (documentation is not disputable)
16:22:54 <dgilmore> maxamillion: no, it can be approved but we will need to ensure it is updated
16:23:59 <maxamillion> +1
16:24:20 <maxamillion> dgilmore: alright, so what's your vote on that change?
16:24:38 <dgilmore> +1 with the proviso it be updated
16:25:33 <maxamillion> #agreed FESCo Approves #1568 F25 Self Contained Changes (Change/Remove slogin and sshd-keygen, GNS3, Rust Compiler) (+1:6, +0:0, -1:0)
16:25:51 <maxamillion> #topic Next week's chair
16:26:00 <maxamillion> I'll be out on PTO next Friday
16:26:40 <nirik> I suppose I can do it...
16:27:17 <maxamillion> #info nirik to chair next week's FESCo meeting
16:27:26 <maxamillion> thanks nirik!
16:27:28 <maxamillion> #topic Open Floor
16:27:30 * dgilmore will be on PTO next week also
16:27:42 <dgilmore> the week after is flock
16:27:45 <maxamillion> anyone have any business to bring to the floor?
16:28:02 <maxamillion> oh! are we doing a "Meet FESCo" type session at Flock this year?
16:28:07 <maxamillion> (on the topic of flock)
16:28:19 <number80> I think so
16:28:29 <dgilmore> maxamillion: if its not already scheduled it may be too late
16:28:42 <jsmith> It wasn't scheduled
16:28:45 <jsmith> I asked several weeks ago
16:28:58 <number80> nope
16:29:00 <jsmith> Nobody proposed it, so it didn't make it's way into the schedule
16:29:01 <maxamillion> wellllll bummer
16:29:10 <jsmith> Nobody wants to meet me anyway :-p
16:29:13 <maxamillion> lol
16:29:21 <number80> jsmith: I'm pretty sure that I do
16:29:22 <maxamillion> maybe we could just do a "have beers with FESCo" evening :)
16:29:38 <jsmith> maxamillion: WORKSFORME, as long as I'm not forced to drink beer :-p
16:29:39 <nirik> buy fesco beers? sounds good. ;)
16:29:45 <maxamillion> nirik: :P
16:30:02 <maxamillion> jsmith: you don't have to drink anything you don't want to ... or really do anything you don't want to
16:30:17 <jsmith> maxamillion: Great -- I'll buy the first round of ${BEVERAGES} then :-)
16:30:17 <dgilmore> jsmith: we have a supply of coke for you
16:30:21 <number80> I know a bar with hundred of different vodka is Krakow
16:30:37 <maxamillion> alright, any other business for the Open Floor? ... I'll give it a few minutes since we have so much spare time in the meeting block
16:30:44 <dgilmore> number80: I would rather 100 different scotch ś
16:30:53 <dgilmore> but i guess I could do vodka
16:31:21 <number80> dgilmore: Krakow's not the right place, but there are bars with decent scotch there
16:31:41 <number80> maxamillion: nothing to add
16:32:34 <dgilmore> maxamillion: nada
16:33:00 <maxamillion> I'll give it three more minutes just in case
16:33:48 <paragan> if more people will be on holiday next week then probably we meet on 12th August after F25 Alpha freeze to evaluate all the Change testable by that time.
16:34:14 <dgilmore> paragan: we have 2 people away, not sure if there are more
16:34:53 <paragan> good so we will not have any quorum issues :)
16:35:17 <maxamillion> alright, I'm gonna close up
16:35:22 <maxamillion> thanks everyone for coming!
16:35:33 <number80> thank you maxamillion
16:35:38 <maxamillion> #endmeeting