16:00:29 <kalev> #startmeeting FESCO (2016-10-07)
16:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Oct  7 16:00:29 2016 UTC.  The chair is kalev. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:29 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2016-10-07)'
16:00:30 <kalev> #meetingname fesco
16:00:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
16:00:30 <kalev> #chair maxamillion dgilmore jwb nirik paragan jsmith kalev sgallagh Rathann
16:00:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rathann dgilmore jsmith jwb kalev maxamillion nirik paragan sgallagh
16:00:32 <kalev> #topic init process
16:00:39 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
16:00:40 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
16:00:40 <jsmith> .hello jsmith
16:00:41 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
16:00:43 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
16:00:44 <kalev> .hello kalev
16:00:46 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
16:00:49 <zodbot> kalev: kalev 'Kalev Lember' <klember@redhat.com>
16:00:51 <sgallagh> I'm multi-tasking, so only partially here
16:00:55 <paragan> .hello pnemade
16:00:56 <zodbot> paragan: pnemade 'Parag Nemade' <pnemade@redhat.com>
16:01:01 <nirik> .hello kevin
16:01:02 <zodbot> nirik: kevin 'Kevin Fenzi' <kevin@scrye.com>
16:01:37 <kalev> sooooo, looks like we have a rather light agenda today
16:01:54 <jsmith> WORKSFORME
16:02:00 <kalev> we had 3 tickets to discuss, but two of them got closed earlier today
16:02:35 <kalev> #topic #1568 F25 Self Contained Changes
16:02:35 <kalev> .fesco 1568
16:02:37 <kalev> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1568
16:02:38 <zodbot> kalev: #1568 (F25 Self Contained Changes) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1568
16:03:18 <kalev> we've got one self contained change that was filed in time, but slipped through the cracks
16:03:32 * jsmith is reading the change page now
16:03:52 <nirik> I'm +1 I guess since it's all done, etc.
16:04:02 <paragan> +1
16:04:03 <jsmith> +1 from me
16:04:10 <maxamillion> +1
16:04:18 <kalev> +1 from me
16:04:22 <Rathann> hi
16:04:27 <Rathann> .hello rathann
16:04:28 <zodbot> Rathann: rathann 'Dominik Mierzejewski' <dominik@greysector.net>
16:04:39 <kalev> not much point in blocking since it's all already done
16:04:41 <sgallagh> Sure, +1
16:04:47 <kalev> Rathann: we are discussing //fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1568
16:05:11 * nirik senses kalev is using gnome-terminal and it's : seperator. ;)
16:05:15 <Rathann> right
16:06:15 <kalev> #agreed Allow late ​Jekyll change to proceed (+1:6, 0:0, -1:0)
16:06:22 <dgilmore> hey all
16:06:23 <Rathann> +1
16:06:35 <kalev> #undo
16:06:38 <Rathann> looks fine by me and it appears to be done already
16:06:39 <kalev> #agreed Allow late ​Jekyll change to proceed (+1:7, 0:0, -1:0)
16:06:42 <maxamillion> dgilmore: ahoy
16:06:53 <jwb> here
16:07:20 <kalev> we are just wrapping up the meeting here, the other two tickets we had on the agenda already got closed earlier today
16:07:25 <dgilmore> I am not against the chaneg
16:07:36 <kalev> good good, sounds like we're unanimous then
16:07:42 <dgilmore> but the policy on how to files chanegs I at least thought was clear
16:07:42 <kalev> ok, let's move on then
16:07:54 <dgilmore> in that it had to be under /Changes in the wiki
16:08:04 <kalev> yeah, mistakes happen sometimes
16:08:17 <kalev> ok, let's move on!
16:08:20 <kalev> #topic Next week's chair
16:08:30 <dgilmore> I would add that the submitter needs to move the Change into the correct namespace
16:08:52 * dgilmore will not be here next week
16:08:55 <paragan> kalev, I will chair next week
16:08:59 <kalev> excellent
16:09:05 <kalev> #info paragan to chair next week
16:09:07 <Rathann> thanks paragan
16:09:08 <maxamillion> woo!
16:09:11 <kalev> #topic Open Floor
16:09:24 <Rathann> I have something to discuss, no vote yet
16:09:27 <Rathann> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1634
16:10:15 <paragan> I see python package maintainers asked more times
16:10:24 <Rathann> a lot of discussion happened in the FPC ticket  https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/650
16:10:40 <Rathann> yes, I'm not trying to fast-track this
16:10:49 <maxamillion> the last comment on that is a recommendation to postpone discussion of it for FESCo
16:10:56 <Rathann> I'd just like everyone to be aware
16:11:09 <Rathann> shall I start a thread in -devel about this, too?
16:11:13 <dgilmore> I think we should use the RHEL versions
16:11:25 <dgilmore> where I presume the CVE's have been fixed
16:11:40 <kalev> Rathann: that might be a good idea
16:11:49 <Rathann> python33 was imported from Fedora 20
16:12:10 <Rathann> python26 from CentOS 6
16:12:20 <Rathann> according to the %changelogs
16:12:42 <kalev> I think I'd like to read some of the fpc discussion before discussing it here
16:12:46 <Rathann> but it's not about these two specifically
16:12:58 <nirik> why would you want to test against a eol version? I guess people could be running it, but wouldn't you advise them to upgraade?
16:13:08 <paragan> right this can be applied to any EOL package entering in Fedora
16:13:09 * nirik also needs to read the tickets
16:13:23 <Rathann> nirik: my thoughts exactly, but apparently there are people who want this
16:13:28 <kalev> right, let's continue this next week, I think we all need to read the discussion in the fpc ticket first
16:13:30 <Rathann> otherwise it wouldn't have been done
16:13:33 <Rathann> yes
16:13:46 <dgilmore> nirik: the use case afaik is to enable developing on Fedora for old versions of RHEL
16:14:07 <dgilmore> so if we want to support that then we should use the same versions
16:14:11 <nirik> then yeah, would likely make sense to track those versions exactly
16:14:15 <Rathann> and that IS a valid use case, I have nothing against it in principle
16:14:22 <cstratak> Rathann, if possible cc python-devel as well for the thread when you start it
16:14:29 <dgilmore> otherwise bug fixes may invalidate the testing of dev on fedora
16:14:33 <kalev> yep, that sounds like a very good reason to have them in fedora
16:15:14 <Rathann> cstratak: which python-devel?
16:15:40 <cstratak> Rathann, the fedora mailing list, as most people interested to that hang out there
16:15:58 <paragan> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/python-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/
16:16:13 <Rathann> well, this is not about python in particular but EOL and vulnerable software in general
16:16:19 <Rathann> but sure, why not
16:16:47 <kalev> anything else for the open floor?
16:16:57 <dgilmore> Rathann: well there should be a reason why its brought in
16:17:47 <Rathann> dgilmore: and it should be a good reason that outweighs the risk of reintroducing known vulnerabilities
16:18:07 <paragan> do we want to reply for https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1455#comment:38 ?
16:18:13 * jsmith will be right back
16:18:17 <paragan> .fesco 1455
16:18:19 <zodbot> paragan: #1455 (F23 System Wide Change: Standardized Passphrase Policy) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1455
16:18:37 <paragan> in next meeting?
16:18:47 <kalev> sure, maybe next week after the devel list discussion has gotten somewhere?
16:19:13 <kalev> "Weak password madness is back again" on the devel list
16:19:18 <nirik> I think this just needs some plan decided... not sure fesco in the middle is too useful here
16:19:19 <paragan> thanks will accordingly open it and add to agenda
16:19:28 <kalev> thanks paragan
16:19:34 <dgilmore> Rathann: well I think the use case would warrent not adding known security bugs
16:20:16 <Rathann> dgilmore: not sure I completely understand, could you elaborate/rephrase?
16:20:48 <dgilmore> Rathann: well like in the python 26 case, its so you can develope for rhel5
16:21:04 <dgilmore> Rathann: which means that we should follow the rhel5 python2.6 builds
16:21:12 <Rathann> you mean rhel6, rhel5 had python-2.4
16:21:15 <dgilmore> and should not have known CVE's
16:21:22 <dgilmore> Rathann: right
16:21:35 <Rathann> and python26 parallel installable, actually (from EPEL)
16:21:39 <dgilmore> too many rhels of ancientness
16:21:43 <Rathann> :D
16:21:52 <Rathann> I was bitten by that one at work recently
16:22:26 <Rathann> when some ignorant person pointed /usr/bin/python link to /usr/bin/python26
16:22:29 <dgilmore> Rathann: so if it is valuable enough to pull in, there should be a reason it is patched for security bugs
16:22:39 <dgilmore> Rathann: fun
16:23:00 <Rathann> yep and then they asked if I had a python-2.6-compatible yum for rhel5
16:23:10 <Rathann> anyway
16:23:15 <Rathann> I agree with your points
16:23:35 <kalev> let's close the meeting and continue the discussion on list
16:23:39 <Rathann> good idea
16:23:54 <kalev> and invite the python people here for next week's meeting
16:23:58 <kalev> #action Rathann to start a devel list discussion about old python compatibility versions in Fedora
16:24:23 <Rathann> kalev: I'd rather start a discussion about including EOL and vulnerable software in general
16:24:29 <kalev> right, sure
16:24:32 <Rathann> ;)
16:25:09 <kalev> ok, that was it for today! thanks everybody for coming
16:25:18 <kalev> #endmeeting