16:00:05 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2017-01-20)
16:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jan 20 16:00:05 2017 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2017-01-20)'
16:00:05 <nirik> #meetingname fesco
16:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
16:00:05 <nirik> #chair maxamillion dgilmore jwb nirik jforbes jsmith kalev sgallagh Rathann
16:00:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rathann dgilmore jforbes jsmith jwb kalev maxamillion nirik sgallagh
16:00:05 <nirik> #topic init process
16:00:11 <Rathann> hi
16:00:19 <nirik> who all is around? :)
16:00:20 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
16:00:21 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
16:00:25 <jforbes> .hello jforbes
16:00:27 <zodbot> jforbes: jforbes 'Justin M. Forbes' <jforbes@redhat.com>
16:00:28 <ignatenkobrain> hi everyone
16:00:49 <nirik> sgallagh said he would be a few min late.
16:02:10 <Rathann> .hello rathann
16:02:10 * nirik waits for at least one more
16:02:11 <zodbot> Rathann: rathann 'Dominik Mierzejewski' <dominik@greysector.net>
16:04:05 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
16:04:06 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
16:04:24 <nirik> alrighty. Thats 5, so lets go ahead and start. ;)
16:04:33 <nirik> #topic #1635 F26 Self Contained Changes
16:04:33 <nirik> .fesco 1635
16:04:33 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1635
16:04:35 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #1635: F26 Self Contained Changes - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1635
16:04:40 <jsmith> .hello jsmith
16:04:41 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
16:04:42 <jsmith> Sorry I'm late
16:04:43 <nirik> there's several of these, shall we do them one at a time?
16:04:47 <nirik> no worries
16:04:53 <dgilmore> hola
16:04:58 <sgallagh> Do we want to cover the fontconfig one separately?
16:05:02 <sgallagh> (First, or later?)
16:05:06 <nirik> sure, lets do it first
16:05:15 <nirik> sgallagh: you talked with folks about that?
16:05:22 <sgallagh> Yes, see the comment in the ticket
16:05:28 <nirik> yeah.
16:05:28 <sgallagh> I can summarize here, though.
16:05:57 <nirik> if you like. I'm +1 at this point
16:06:00 <sgallagh> The short version is that I think the primary confusion in the debate is the word "cache" and the different participants' definitions thereof.
16:06:12 * kalev appears in a poof of magic.
16:06:14 <kalev> sorry guys, a bit late here
16:06:15 <jforbes> I read the summary in the ticket, +1 here as well
16:06:16 <Rathann> yes, it makes sense now
16:06:33 <kalev> +1 from me too, makes a lot of sense now
16:06:36 <kalev> thanks sgallagh for checking it
16:06:37 <jsmith> +1 to the fontconfig index from me
16:06:40 <Rathann> is the index portable between arches?
16:06:42 <maxamillion> +1 here as well
16:06:53 <Rathann> if yes, then perhaps /usr/share/fontconfig would be a better location
16:07:15 <dgilmore> while not ideal ostree could run fc-cache on boot for changes
16:07:23 <dgilmore> but that data can be moved
16:07:41 <sgallagh> dgilmore: I suggested that as well, but they would prefer to avoid special-casing things
16:08:02 <sgallagh> If they were going to do a special-case, they'd rather just add a symlink for the ostree case.
16:08:10 <jsmith> sgallagh: Agreed...
16:08:13 <nirik> thats +5, other votes?
16:08:14 <sgallagh> Rathann: I did not think to ask that question.
16:08:45 <sgallagh> I'm +1 to my own proposal, if that was unclear.
16:09:11 <Rathann> +1 anyway
16:09:53 <dgilmore> sgallagh: we could make everyone run it via systemd but sure
16:10:54 <nirik> #agreed Fontconfig cache directory change approved (+7,0,0)
16:11:17 <dgilmore> I am honestly not sure how to vote on it
16:11:27 <nirik> ok, we have also Transdiff and Automated AMI test and release.
16:11:59 <Rathann> Transdiff doesn't warrant a change in my opinion
16:13:14 <dgilmore> i thin the ami testing means fed-img not fedming
16:13:26 <dgilmore> fed-img is teh tool that uploads the images
16:13:27 <sgallagh> I am +1 to both, personally
16:13:51 <Rathann> also, Transdiff is more for upstreams than for package maintainers
16:14:05 <nirik> well, without the change people may not know transdiff exists to run it? but yeah... seems more end user than changey
16:14:18 <dgilmore> the change also directly effectes releng even though it says it doesn't :(
16:14:20 <jforbes> +1 to both as well
16:15:10 <dgilmore> the ami uploading I think needs some more detail but I am +1 to the idea
16:15:20 <kalev> +1 to both
16:15:39 <Rathann> +1 to AMI, -1 to Transdiff
16:15:52 <dgilmore> I think transdiff really should be done in taskotron, or elsewhere, but that could be done in addition
16:16:00 <Rathann> Changes are not just for marketing
16:16:08 <nirik> well, or transdiff could just be a release note. ;)
16:16:12 <Rathann> exactly
16:16:14 <jsmith> Rathann: I'm curious, why are you against transdiff?
16:16:47 <nirik> dgilmore: taskotron integration would be very good there I agree.
16:17:02 <Rathann> I don't see anything in that proposal that would require a Change proposal
16:18:04 <dgilmore> are we expecting users to run transdiff?
16:18:09 <nirik> that was mentioned on the list and they were going to investigate taskotron integration...
16:18:29 <nirik> dgilmore: that seems like the case yeah...
16:18:52 <nirik> "oh, my translations are out of date" "hey upstream, please do a new release"
16:19:09 <jsmith> I'm +1 to both transdiff and AMI testing
16:19:30 <dgilmore> I am not opposed to it. I think there is different interaction points we should look at
16:19:44 <dgilmore> but I will give it a +1 also
16:19:50 <nirik> I guess I can be +1 to both
16:20:22 <maxamillion> I'm +1 to AMI ... still pondering Transdiff
16:20:30 * nirik counts
16:20:41 <dgilmore> transdiff I really am on the fence about it beinga  change
16:20:47 <dgilmore> I think its a useful tool
16:21:05 <nirik> #agreed Automated AMI test and release change is approved (+8,0,0)
16:21:13 <jforbes> it's more about marketing really
16:21:19 <nirik> do we want to punt for more list discussion? it kind of petered out...
16:21:32 <maxamillion> I think it's an useful tool, I just don't fully understand the scope of the Change ... are we just introducing that package to Fedora? is this being incorporated in the build/release pipeline?
16:21:34 <dgilmore> but I think taskotron, and test cases in openqa are probably better places for integration and can get things reported and fixed more rapidly
16:21:41 <nirik> I know Rathann asked why it should be a change and never really got an answer
16:21:41 <Rathann> not to mention the proposal contains "More details TBD", "Will provide later." etc.
16:22:10 <nirik> maxamillion: yes, just the package. no to anything further at this time
16:22:20 <Rathann> yes, it looks like my question was silently ignored
16:22:22 <Rathann> or missed
16:22:37 <dgilmore> Rathann: probably no answer
16:22:42 <dgilmore> not sure the change owners are here
16:22:43 <nirik> proposal: wait a week for this change for more discussion on list
16:22:49 <dgilmore> as they would have to answer it
16:22:52 <dgilmore> nirik: +1
16:23:10 <Rathann> +1
16:23:18 <nirik> +1 my own proposal
16:23:32 <maxamillion> +1
16:23:44 <kalev> +1
16:23:52 <jforbes> +1 I can agree on that
16:24:02 <jsmith> +1, seems fair
16:24:25 <nirik> #agreed will wait a week for more discussion on Transdiff. (+7,0,0)
16:24:37 <nirik> #topic #1665 Unresponsive maintainer: affix
16:24:37 <nirik> .fesco 1665
16:24:37 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1665
16:24:38 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #1665: Unresponsive maintainer: affix - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1665
16:24:55 <nirik> so I'm not sure this went through the process...
16:25:36 <nirik> but they are definitely non responsive in bz
16:26:40 <dgilmore> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/XOX7WLYKUY2LZ6H7M3WPEUF7ZON3HU2K/
16:26:57 <dgilmore> nirik: an email was sent to devel@ in November last year
16:26:58 <nirik> ah, there was a devel post, ok.
16:27:07 <kalev> ahh, good
16:27:30 <nirik> so, sure +1 to orphaning
16:27:33 <kalev> would also be nice to add unresponsive maintainters to the pagure ticket, so they can see what's going on
16:27:34 <dgilmore> nirik: and it is not the first time he/shee has come up non responsive
16:27:36 <Rathann> affix hasn't logged in to FAS since May last year
16:27:38 <kalev> but +1 anyway
16:27:38 <sgallagh> I'm always in favor of handing a package over to someone willing to actually maintain it.
16:27:39 <sgallagh> +1
16:27:42 <dgilmore> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1145830
16:27:42 <Rathann> so, +1
16:28:04 <dgilmore> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1479
16:28:12 <dgilmore> +1
16:28:21 <jforbes> +1 here
16:29:08 <maxamillion> +1
16:29:20 <maxamillion> apologies, need to step afk for a couple minutes
16:29:24 <nirik> #agreed will orphan affixes packages (+7,0,0)
16:29:38 <nirik> #topic #1668 F26 System Wide Change: GCC7
16:29:38 <nirik> .fesco 1668
16:29:38 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1668
16:29:39 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #1668: F26 System Wide Change: GCC7 - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1668
16:29:41 <nirik> +1 here
16:29:53 <kalev> +1 as well, would be good to get this as soon as possible in rawhide
16:29:54 <dgilmore> +1 top gcc
16:29:56 <dgilmore> to
16:29:58 <sgallagh> +1
16:30:41 <jforbes> +1 as well
16:30:43 <dgilmore> kalev: agreed sooner is better
16:31:26 <Rathann> +1
16:31:43 <dgilmore> jsmith: what say you?
16:31:59 <jsmith> +1
16:32:14 <nirik> #agreed GCC7 change is approved (+7,0,0)
16:32:15 <jsmith> (Sorry, got pulled into a phone call for ${DAYJOB})
16:32:22 <nirik> #topic #1669 F26 System Wide Change: Parallel Installable Debuginfo
16:32:22 <nirik> .fesco 1669
16:32:22 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1669
16:32:24 <nirik> +1 here
16:32:24 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #1669: F26 System Wide Change: Parallel Installable Debuginfo - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1669
16:32:37 <jforbes> very big +1 here
16:33:22 <dgilmore> +1
16:33:23 <ignatenkobrain> isn't it duplicate of F25 change?
16:33:33 <jsmith> +1 from me...
16:33:37 <nirik> It wasn't done in time for f25.
16:33:38 <kalev> +1, this is an area that has been lacking in improvements for a while
16:33:59 <sgallagh> +1, but I'm slightly concerned about potential cleanup... debuginfo packages are BIG
16:34:54 <ignatenkobrain> nirik: ah, right. Thought that it's some similar, but not same
16:35:05 <nirik> #agreed Parallel Installable Debuginfo Change is approved (+6,0,0)
16:35:08 <kalev> sgallagh: what cleanup do you mean?
16:35:16 <Rathann> +1 from me as well
16:35:23 <nirik> #undo
16:35:23 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by nirik at 16:35:05 : Parallel Installable Debuginfo Change is approved (+6,0,0)
16:35:27 <nirik> #agreed Parallel Installable Debuginfo Change is approved (+7,0,0)
16:35:38 <sgallagh> kalev: Today, if I install a newer version of the glibc debuginfo, it removes the older one, saving space
16:35:39 <nirik> I think folks that know to use debuginfo packages can manage them...
16:35:45 <sgallagh> With this change, I now have two large packages.
16:35:59 <sgallagh> nirik: Yeah, which is why I voted +1, but it's still in the back of my mind
16:36:02 <ignatenkobrain> sgallagh: do you?
16:36:32 * nirik typically installs, debugs and removes.
16:36:52 <nirik> anyhow, anything more on this?
16:36:56 * maxamillion is back ... apologies
16:37:10 <sgallagh> Shall we move on?
16:37:12 <nirik> #topic Next week's chair
16:37:17 <nirik> who wants it next week?
16:37:28 <kalev> I can do it
16:37:38 <dgilmore> will we have enough people for the meeting next week?>
16:37:48 <kalev> ahh, good question
16:37:59 * maxamillion will not be available
16:38:00 * nirik should be around
16:38:00 <sgallagh> I will not be attending
16:38:08 * dgilmore will be at devconf
16:38:09 * jforbes will be here
16:38:15 * kalev will be here
16:38:22 <dgilmore> and at fosdem the week after
16:38:27 <sgallagh> I'll take Feb 03 though
16:39:01 <nirik> so sounds like we won't have enough people next week?
16:39:07 <dgilmore> sounds like it
16:39:24 <nirik> kalev: you want feb 3rd or want sgallagh to have it?
16:39:35 <dgilmore> jsmith: will you be here next week?
16:39:35 <kalev> nirik: sgallagh can have it
16:39:42 <nirik> ok.
16:39:54 <jsmith> dgilmore: I should be, yes?
16:40:03 <nirik> #info people traveling next week so no meeting on 2017-01-27
16:40:08 <dgilmore> so likely only 4 people
16:40:17 <nirik> #info sgallagh will chair the 2017-02-03 meeting
16:40:23 <jsmith> dgilmore: By "here", I mean in IRC, not "there" physically
16:40:43 <nirik> We have a number of old tickets... I didn't ping any of them but we could address some if we want...
16:41:05 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issues
16:41:15 <dgilmore> jsmith: that is what I was asking
16:41:37 <jsmith> Might be good to do a bit of housekeeping
16:42:02 <nirik> yeah, I didn't want to last night... was late, but I or someone could ping on them soon.
16:42:09 <nirik> Would be good to get some done.
16:42:17 <nirik> Anyhow, that takes us to...
16:42:20 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:42:21 <dgilmore> I do not think we will get a good answer for https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1444 and given our future paths it seems like it may no longer be relevant
16:42:23 <nirik> anything for open floor?
16:42:51 <nirik> dgilmore: indeed.
16:43:50 <dgilmore> nirik: I will close it
16:43:58 <nirik> fine with me. :)
16:44:08 <sgallagh> ack
16:44:15 <nirik> ok, if nothing else will close out in a minute%rand
16:44:34 <jsmith> Nothing from me for the open floor
16:45:23 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone!
16:45:26 <nirik> #endmeeting