16:00:55 <dgilmore> #startmeeting FESCO (2017-03-24)
16:00:55 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Mar 24 16:00:55 2017 UTC.  The chair is dgilmore. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:55 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:55 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2017-03-24)'
16:00:55 <dgilmore> #meetingname fesco
16:00:56 <dgilmore> #chair maxamillion dgilmore jwb nirik jforbes jsmith kalev sgallagh Rathann
16:00:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
16:00:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rathann dgilmore jforbes jsmith jwb kalev maxamillion nirik sgallagh
16:00:58 <dgilmore> #topic init process
16:01:02 <nirik> morning
16:01:03 <jsmith> .hello jsmith
16:01:03 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
16:01:04 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
16:01:06 <dgilmore> jsmith: I believe its now
16:01:07 <jforbes> .hello jforbes
16:01:07 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
16:01:10 <zodbot> jforbes: jforbes 'Justin M. Forbes' <jforbes@redhat.com>
16:01:11 <kalev> .hello kalev
16:01:13 <zodbot> kalev: kalev 'Kalev Lember' <klember@redhat.com>
16:01:18 <jsmith> dgilmore: Yeah, my body clock is still messed up :-/
16:02:00 <kalev> next week it's Europe changing the time zone as well
16:02:02 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
16:02:04 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
16:02:12 <jforbes> jwb said he might be late. He will either join late or follow up in the tickets
16:02:41 <Rathann> I'm still commuting and can't type too fast on my mobile
16:02:54 <dgilmore> #topic #1688 Incomplete (non testable) Changes of F26
16:02:54 <dgilmore> .fesco 1688
16:02:55 * nirik has a hard stop at :45...
16:02:55 <dgilmore> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1688
16:02:55 <zodbot> dgilmore: Issue #1688: Incomplete (non testable) Changes of F26 - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1688
16:02:59 <dgilmore> lets get moving
16:03:11 * threebean 
16:04:28 <dgilmore> the cflags change was reduced in scope
16:04:42 <dgilmore> and was done prior to the mass rebuild
16:04:57 <jforbes> right, and with the reduced scope, it is testable/done
16:05:00 * nirik nods.
16:05:00 <jsmith> Yeah, I'm fine with that one, since it was reduced in scope
16:05:01 <dgilmore> I think we can move that to modified
16:05:01 * kalev nods.
16:05:04 <kalev> yep
16:05:09 <dgilmore> though the change page may need updated
16:06:24 <dgilmore> anyone disagree?
16:06:41 <nirik> nope
16:06:56 <jforbes> no
16:06:56 <dgilmore> okay :)
16:07:03 <dgilmore> lets do the Modular changes
16:07:16 <dgilmore> https://fedoraproject.org//wiki/Changes/ModularCompose
16:07:24 <dgilmore> https://fedoraproject.org//wiki/Changes/Modular_Server_Preview
16:07:51 * nirik is +1 to allowing them for all the reasons mattdm outlined in the ticket
16:08:00 <maxamillion> so in the comments in pagure this one says it doesn't need to defer, but also that it's still waiting on baseruntime to be delivered ... the variable of baseruntime being an unknown concerns me
16:08:08 <jsmith> I'm +1 for the same reasons
16:08:13 <kalev> +1 as well
16:08:30 <dgilmore> I am +1 to both for Beta
16:08:36 <sgallagh> I'll abstain due to conflict of interest.
16:08:38 <threebean> maxamillion: they're at the point where they have a build we can use for some of the architectures, but not all.  there's some missing uefi stuff they're still working out.
16:08:53 <maxamillion> threebean: does it boot? I heard a few days ago it doesn't boot
16:09:08 <dgilmore> maxamillion: maybe
16:09:14 <pjones> huh.
16:09:24 <sgallagh> maxamillion: I *think* the version building right now should have fixed that.
16:09:42 * threebean nods
16:09:44 <dgilmore> pjones: they were missning shim from thier packagelist for instance
16:09:52 <pjones> yeah, that's not gonna work.
16:10:05 <maxamillion> alright, is there any estimate on a timeline where it will show up in working order to unblock the rest of the work? ... there's still a lot in-flight late in the cycle
16:10:11 <jforbes> I am +1
16:11:13 * threebean defers to sgallagh
16:11:15 <sgallagh> maxamillion: We're hoping Monday.
16:11:32 <maxamillion> hrmm
16:11:33 <sgallagh> (Well, ideal would be *today*, but I assume there will be at least one more bug to work out)
16:11:51 <maxamillion> threebean: you're confident that if unblocked soon that things can get done in time?
16:11:56 <sgallagh> I'd rather be pleasantly surprised.
16:12:16 <maxamillion> sgallagh: +1
16:12:19 <dgilmore> maxamillion: given that its all going to be unsupported on the side and is just a demo, so long as business as usual works I am less concerned over it. but delaying is kicking the can down the road
16:12:26 <threebean> for beta?  confident.  for alpha?  nope.  not even with the slip.
16:12:45 <jkaluza> sgallagh: talking about shim on monday?
16:12:55 * jkaluza just want to be sure :)
16:12:57 * dgilmore thinks even with the slip Alpha has sailed for it
16:13:15 <jwb> here now, apologies for being late
16:13:25 <jkurik> hi
16:13:30 <nirik> right
16:13:38 <sgallagh> jkaluza: contyk was working on that intently, so I really hope so
16:13:56 <jwb> as i said in the ticket, i'm +1 for both of these for beta
16:13:57 <maxamillion> dgilmore: rgr
16:14:04 <maxamillion> alright
16:14:08 <maxamillion> I'm +1 to the change
16:14:26 <jkaluza> sgallagh: ok, great :)
16:16:08 <dgilmore> okay let me sumarise everything
16:17:20 <dgilmore> #agreed the modular delieverables are okay for Beta delivery (+:8 0:0 -:0)
16:18:08 <dgilmore> #info we did not vote on the cflag change but it has been completed in a reduced change set and was in place for mass rebuild
16:18:35 <dgilmore> #info FESCo needs to ensure the change reflects reality
16:18:56 <dgilmore> any one want to add anything else?
16:19:12 <dgilmore> #topic #1690 F27 Self Contained Changes
16:19:12 <dgilmore> .fesco 1690
16:19:13 <zodbot> dgilmore: Issue #1690: F27 Self Contained Changes - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1690
16:19:13 <dgilmore> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1690
16:19:35 <jkurik> just FYI: The owner of cflag change is on PTO till end of the month
16:19:41 <dgilmore> hrrm we approved them last week
16:19:46 <dgilmore> and the issue was not updated
16:19:47 <jwb> dgilmore: yeah, i thought we did
16:20:03 <jwb> jkurik: i think that's OK.  there's not much he needs to do at the moment :)
16:20:10 <dgilmore> jwb: teach me to not look at the issue when setting up the agenda
16:20:25 <dgilmore> #topic #1681 Proposed Fedora 27 schedule
16:20:25 <dgilmore> .fesco 1681
16:20:26 <dgilmore> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1681
16:20:27 <zodbot> dgilmore: Issue #1681: Proposed Fedora 27 schedule - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1681
16:20:34 <dgilmore> lets go to the f27 schedule
16:20:50 <sgallagh> Did this need revision, or is it still on the list because I forgot to close it last week?
16:21:06 <dgilmore> sgallagh: matt updated it 6 days ago
16:21:22 * Rathann is back at his computer
16:21:24 <dgilmore> but it may be that it was not updated
16:21:31 <jforbes> Only because we were 1.5 hours into the meeting and changing it
16:21:45 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Yeah, looking at the time stamp, that was during the meeting
16:22:03 <sgallagh> So, I think this is my fault. I forgot to process the #agreed after the meeting.
16:22:06 <nirik> I think we were all ok with this one.
16:22:11 <dgilmore> okay, can I ask you to update it then please sgallagh?
16:22:14 <sgallagh> On it
16:22:21 <dgilmore> thanks
16:22:25 <jwb> oh good.  i didn't really want to go over this again :)
16:22:41 <kalev> yep, looks good to me too
16:22:46 <dgilmore> #info sgallagh forgot to update the issue last week
16:22:48 <dgilmore> #topic Next week's chair
16:22:59 <dgilmore> who wants to run the ship next week?
16:23:02 * nirik can do it.
16:23:14 <dgilmore> #action nirik to take next weeks meeting
16:23:18 <dgilmore> thanks nirik
16:23:26 <dgilmore> #topic Open Floor
16:23:50 <dgilmore> anyone got anything?
16:23:58 <nirik> I had one quick question...
16:24:09 <dgilmore> got for it
16:24:14 <dgilmore> go for it even
16:24:33 <kalev> I'll be gone next week
16:24:42 <kalev> but back the week after!
16:24:44 <nirik> the no more alpha change... we approved it, but were fuzzy on the details. When do we expect gating and what kind? or is that waiting on alpha being done so adamw and dgilmore can work on it?
16:24:59 <kalev> also, what happens if the gating doesn't land?
16:25:10 <kalev> do we rework the schedule then?
16:25:24 <dgilmore> kalev: we revert to the original schedule
16:25:31 <kalev> ok
16:25:43 <dgilmore> there is a deadline a month before Alpha would have been done
16:26:21 <dgilmore> I plan to get with adamw post Alpha and start working on the change
16:26:27 <nirik> ok
16:27:08 <kalev> I have a question too
16:27:15 <dgilmore> kalev: shoot
16:27:48 <kalev> would it make sense to change the meeting time so that it's one hour earlier UTC, but stays at the same local time as two weeks ago and before?
16:27:55 <kalev> undoing the timezone thing?
16:28:36 <dgilmore> kalev: tit would still change for some
16:28:40 <dgilmore> it even
16:29:04 * nirik is fine with either this time or an hour earlier
16:29:08 <dgilmore> there is no way to have the meeting stay the same local time for everyone
16:29:16 <maxamillion> I'm fine with either time as well
16:29:17 <dgilmore> I can not do an hour earlier
16:29:20 <sgallagh> I can do either time
16:29:36 <dgilmore> my friday is meetings from 8am to 1pm
16:29:42 <maxamillion> dgilmore: oof
16:29:48 <kalev> ahh, if dgilmore can't do one hour earlier I guess that decides it
16:29:59 <nirik> DST is such a suck of time and energy and causer of such pain.
16:30:03 <dgilmore> I have three meetings before this on fridays
16:30:15 <Rathann> I would prefer no change in UTC
16:30:45 <dgilmore> anything else?
16:30:50 <nirik> oh, shoot. I thought of one other thing...
16:31:02 <nirik> The webkitgtk/webkitgtk3 retirement.
16:31:03 <dgilmore> go for it :)
16:31:18 <nirik> This was discussed at length on list... has been planned for a year now or so
16:31:40 <nirik> so they were retired, but someone unretired them.
16:32:01 <nirik> can we/should we say that they should not be unretired?
16:32:13 <dgilmore> I think we can
16:32:24 <Rathann> see, that's where my proposal comes in
16:32:25 <nirik> They are both no longer maintained at all upstream and have hundreds of outstanding CVE's against them
16:32:39 <nirik> Rathann: true, related for sure. :)
16:32:46 <Rathann> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1634
16:33:24 <Rathann> it would be against the rules to put it back in Fedora if that proposal passed
16:33:39 <sgallagh> Rathann: Sure, but the rules right now are "FESCo can say no"
16:33:46 <sgallagh> So I don't see a major problem here.
16:33:56 <nirik> proposal: FESCo requires webkitgtk/webkitgtk3 packages be retired as planned and not readded to the collection due to their outstanding security bugs and the long communicated plan of retiring them.
16:34:00 <kalev> I'd prefer if old webkitgtk stayed out of the distro, but at the same time this creates a precedent with throwing out old libs we haven't had before
16:34:06 <dgilmore> nirik: +1
16:34:24 <kalev> +1 from me as well
16:34:28 <sgallagh> kalev: I'm perfectly comfortable with that precedent
16:34:31 <sgallagh> nirik: +1
16:34:32 <Rathann> nirik +1, unless someone comes forward and fixes all the CVEs ;)
16:34:39 <kalev> sgallagh: me too, just wanted to mention that :)
16:34:49 <sgallagh> Rathann: If upstream is resurrected, that would be cause to reconsider.
16:34:51 <jforbes> +1
16:35:02 <maxamillion> +1
16:35:08 <nirik> they would sure have a hard road...
16:35:14 <dgilmore> jwb: jsmith: ^
16:35:34 <maxamillion> side question: what's midori and epiphany using these days?
16:35:35 <kalev> I wonder if with this precedent we would be able to get rid of gtk+ 1 and other seriously ancient stuff too
16:35:39 <nirik> upstream dropped gtk2 support... years ago. and webkit is a very very large project.
16:35:43 <jwb> +1
16:35:46 <kalev> maxamillion: epiphany uses webkitgtk4
16:36:01 <kalev> a bit confusingly named, it's still using gtk+ 3
16:36:02 <jsmith> +1
16:36:02 <dgilmore> kalev: sure, if there is CVE's in them
16:36:03 <nirik> maxamillion: so does midori (all be it on a branch)
16:36:04 <maxamillion> kalev: ah, didn't realize they moved on to a version 4
16:36:15 <maxamillion> nirik: +1
16:36:17 <maxamillion> cool cool
16:36:28 <nirik> the versioning is somewhat confusing due to our packaging.
16:36:38 <nirik> webkitgtk4 is webkit2 and gtk3
16:36:52 <kalev> and webkitgtk is webkit1 and gtk2
16:36:57 <kalev> and webkitgtk3 is webkit1 and gtk3
16:37:03 <dgilmore> #agreed FESCo requires webkitgtk/webkitgtk3 packages be retired as planned and not readded to the collection due to their outstanding security bugs and the long communicated plan of retiring them. (9:+ 0:0 0:-)
16:37:04 * nirik nods. yep.
16:37:19 <nirik> ok, thats all I had
16:37:40 <dgilmore> nirik: I assumed you were +1 to your proposal
16:37:48 <nirik> yes
16:37:51 <dgilmore> if nothing else I will wrap up
16:38:12 <dgilmore> #endmeeting