16:00:07 <maxamillion> #startmeeting FESCO (2017-08-25)
16:00:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Aug 25 16:00:07 2017 UTC.  The chair is maxamillion. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2017-08-25)'
16:00:07 <maxamillion> #meetingname fesco
16:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
16:00:07 <maxamillion> #chair maxamillion dgilmore jwb nirik jforbes jsmith kalev sgallagh Rathann
16:00:07 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rathann dgilmore jforbes jsmith jwb kalev maxamillion nirik sgallagh
16:00:10 <maxamillion> #topic init process
16:00:11 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion
16:00:13 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
16:00:15 <jforbes> .hello jforbes
16:00:16 <zodbot> jforbes: jforbes 'Justin M. Forbes' <jforbes@redhat.com>
16:00:22 <kalev> .hello kalev
16:00:23 <zodbot> kalev: kalev 'Kalev Lember' <klember@redhat.com>
16:00:26 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
16:00:27 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
16:00:28 <jwb> the election is over and i am no longer on fesco.  the wiki page needs to be updated.
16:00:55 <maxamillion> jwb: noted
16:01:49 <nirik> morning.
16:01:53 <jsmith_work> .hello jsmith
16:01:54 <zodbot> jsmith_work: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
16:03:20 <maxamillion> I think bowlofeggs is the only FESCo member who's never been in FESCo before and he's on PTO to the best of my knowledge
16:03:36 <nirik> yes  he is.
16:04:06 <maxamillion> alright, well we have good attendance so let's get rolling
16:04:14 <maxamillion> #topic Follow Up Items
16:04:19 <sgallagh> We should send out a whenisgood for meeting time
16:04:37 <maxamillion> #topic #1763 Fedora Modules Guidelines and Process
16:04:37 <maxamillion> .fesco 1763
16:04:38 <maxamillion> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1763
16:04:41 <zodbot> maxamillion: Issue #1763: Fedora Modules Guidelines and Process - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1763
16:04:45 <maxamillion> sgallagh: oh?
16:05:08 <sgallagh> Every time membership changes, we need to reconfirmed that the meeting time is still acceptable
16:05:12 <maxamillion> ah ok
16:05:13 <maxamillion> +1
16:05:31 <maxamillion> sgallagh: are we aiming to keep it on a Friday or should it open for more days?
16:05:41 <sgallagh> All days are open
16:05:57 <maxamillion> sgallagh: alrilght, I'll send out a whenisgood
16:06:15 <sgallagh> Ah ok. I was going to volunteer but you're welcome to it :-)
16:06:15 <maxamillion> #action maxamillion to send out a whenisgood now that FESCo elections are over
16:06:16 <jsmith_work> Thanks maxamillion
16:06:21 <maxamillion> sgallagh: oh, you an
16:06:23 <maxamillion> can*
16:06:25 <maxamillion> #undo
16:06:25 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by maxamillion at 16:06:15 : maxamillion to send out a whenisgood now that FESCo elections are over
16:06:31 <maxamillion> sgallagh: who's taking it? :)
16:06:33 * langdon lurks
16:06:49 <maxamillion> langdon: yeah, you're up as soon as we start talking the actual topic ;)
16:06:57 <sgallagh> I've got it
16:07:00 <dgilmore> hola amigos
16:07:08 <maxamillion> #action sgallagh to send out a whenisgood now that FESCo elections are over
16:07:13 <maxamillion> sgallagh: thanks :)
16:07:20 <maxamillion> alright, so on to Modules Guidelines
16:07:25 <maxamillion> langdon: what's the word?
16:08:32 <langdon> Sent, got feedback, incorporated
16:08:41 <maxamillion> langdon: cool
16:08:58 <maxamillion> has everyone had a chance to read the guidelines and review process proposed documents?
16:09:16 <nirik> I think it's an ok start. ;)
16:09:37 <jsmith_work> I've read through them, and also think it's a good start
16:09:50 <jsmith_work> I don't have any immediate concerns
16:10:02 <maxamillion> same, I'm happy with them as they stand
16:10:07 <langdon> Well.. No one, especially me, thinks they won't change :)
16:10:17 <langdon> Just, a solid start :)
16:10:31 <maxamillion> Proposal: Approve Fedora Modules Guidelines and Review Process
16:10:35 * maxamillion is +1
16:10:49 <sgallagh> I don't have any blocking reservations.
16:11:03 <sgallagh> I have a few thoughts on enhancements which I'll discuss offline with langdon
16:11:10 <sgallagh> +1
16:11:20 <nirik> +1
16:11:36 <jforbes> +1
16:11:49 <kalev> +1+1
16:11:57 <kalev> +1 I mean :)
16:12:00 <maxamillion> :)
16:12:00 <jsmith_work> +1
16:12:33 <maxamillion> dgilmore: what say you?
16:14:29 <maxamillion> dgilmore: ping?
16:14:29 <zodbot> maxamillion: Ping with data, please: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_naked_pings
16:14:35 <maxamillion> shut up zodbot
16:15:48 <maxamillion> alright, we'll assume dgilmore is afk
16:15:59 <maxamillion> #agreed Approve Fedora Modules Guidelines and Review Process (+1:6, -1:0, +0:0)
16:16:06 <maxamillion> moving on
16:16:07 <sgallagh> We've got +6 by my count (or +7 if kalev's multiple personalities count separately)
16:16:08 <sgallagh> :)
16:16:12 <maxamillion> #topic #1765 Proposed Fedora 28 schedule
16:16:12 <maxamillion> .fesco 1765
16:16:13 <maxamillion> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1765
16:16:14 <zodbot> maxamillion: Issue #1765: Proposed Fedora 28 schedule - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1765
16:16:18 <maxamillion> sgallagh: :)
16:17:17 <nirik> the submission deadline is really early... thats my only complaint.
16:17:45 <nirik> hard to move them too much without moving everything though
16:17:48 <maxamillion> yeah, it really is especially considering people are going to be on vacation for the winter holiday season
16:17:55 <maxamillion> right
16:18:05 <maxamillion> maybe move them out just one week?
16:18:34 <maxamillion> so that way people who forget to get it in before the holidays have a chance to do so after vacation time
16:18:57 <nirik> well, that leaves not much time for them to actually do them and get them merged before mass rebuild.
16:19:14 <maxamillion> yeah, fair ... that time table is already pretty slim as it is
16:19:20 <kalev> we could also just be lax and let late proposals in if someone submits them a week later
16:19:22 <nirik> I guess I'm ok with it as is... since we can take f28 features anytime... people could get them in before the holidays...
16:19:24 <sgallagh> Well, it just means that they have to be finished with the prep before they propose it
16:19:30 <sgallagh> Which... is not a bad idea
16:19:35 <maxamillion> sgallagh: also that
16:19:51 <dgilmore> maxamillion: sorry someone was at the door
16:20:05 <maxamillion> dgilmore: no worries, you can get in on this one :)
16:20:55 <dgilmore> my only concern with the schedule as proposed is that submission deadlines
16:21:18 <dgilmore> particullary mass rebuild and systemwide
16:21:23 <sgallagh> I'm good with the current plan, but cautious that F27 may slip and cause friction
16:21:37 <dgilmore> being so close to christmas people will be distracted nad forget
16:21:51 <nirik> yeah, although they can get stuff in before that. ;)
16:21:52 <maxamillion> sgallagh: I'm not one to bet on things, but I'd imagine f27 slipping is safe bet
16:21:56 <dgilmore> and I am not sure of how the tools schedules and mass rebuild line up
16:22:26 <sgallagh> dgilmore: The tools folks replied that it works for them
16:22:32 <maxamillion> dgilmore: nirik does point out that there's time before the holidays to get things in, 1.5 months ... which I'd like to think is sufficient
16:22:35 <sgallagh> See the comments in the ticket
16:22:39 <dgilmore> glibc said they are good with it
16:22:42 <dgilmore> no word from gcc
16:22:47 <sgallagh> ah
16:22:51 <sgallagh> I'll ping them.
16:22:53 <dgilmore> sgallagh: glibc did not gcc
16:23:32 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Understood. I'm asking them now
16:23:50 <langdon> Please ping if u need me again.. And \o/ (sorry for the aside)
16:24:07 <maxamillion> langdon: +1
16:25:13 <dgilmore> sgallagh: though loks like we will likely have gcc 7.3 for f28
16:25:43 <dgilmore> which should be released in December this year
16:26:21 <dgilmore> and get gcc 8 in april
16:27:04 <kalev> I can't speak for the gcc team, but I suspect they might want to go for a gcc 8 prerelease in F28
16:27:06 <nirik> which hopefully means 28 doesn't need to wait any on gcc's account
16:27:37 <maxamillion> yeah, I was kind of wondering if we were going to make a play for gcc8 early or hold it off until f29
16:28:05 <dgilmore> kalev: which may make things tight
16:28:22 <dgilmore> kalev: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GCC7
16:28:31 <dgilmore> basedf on what they did for gcc7
16:28:34 * kalev nods.
16:28:43 <dgilmore> they likely will try get gcc8 in
16:29:34 <maxamillion> rgr
16:29:41 <nirik> so we could just revisit this next meeting...
16:29:48 <nirik> or is there presure to decide it now?
16:29:59 <maxamillion> alright, so any concerns with the schedule that need to be proposed in ticket so we can revisit next week or do we want to vote on it?
16:30:16 <maxamillion> nirik: not that I know of, it was just said that we'd revisit so I put it on the schedule
16:30:27 * nirik would like to hear back from gcc folks.
16:30:36 <dgilmore> nb: I would also
16:30:51 <kalev> I concur, we should get confirmation from gcc folks
16:30:58 <jforbes> That works
16:31:01 <sgallagh> They aren't replying to me at the moment
16:31:06 <dgilmore> I also would kinda like to see the systemwide and mass rebuild deadlines being shifted a week later
16:31:07 <kalev> but at the same time, I don't think we should let that significantly affect the schedule
16:31:15 <dgilmore> tjust to make sure people get them in on time
16:31:17 <kalev> either they are ready or gcc 8 gets postponed to f29
16:32:30 <maxamillion> alright, can folks with concerns/comments around the gcc8 and mass rebuild points put comments in the ticket?
16:32:31 <dgilmore> maybe
16:33:09 <maxamillion> Proposal: Revisit next week as there are concerns to be addressed around mass rebuild.
16:33:12 * maxamillion is +1
16:33:18 <jforbes> +1
16:33:28 <dgilmore> +1
16:33:53 <dgilmore> maxamillion: I have one other thing I wanted to bring up
16:34:03 <dgilmore> 2018-03-06 Software Translation Deadline
16:34:11 <kalev> +1
16:34:26 <dgilmore> years ago we were super strict about it
16:34:48 <jsmith_work> +1
16:34:51 <dgilmore> when we had transifex inhouse we had a big push to translate comps, anaconda, etc
16:35:27 <dgilmore> its been a long time now since we have made a concerted effort to make sure things were translated and we did not break sting freeze
16:35:43 <dgilmore> I wonder if we still need to keep the deadline in there
16:35:59 <dgilmore> we also used to do special composes for translators
16:36:12 <dgilmore> which are no longer needed due to full composes nightly
16:37:17 <maxamillion> nirik: sgallagh: ?
16:37:24 <sgallagh> +1
16:37:28 <sgallagh> Sorry, attention split
16:37:45 <nirik> +1
16:38:01 <nirik> dgilmore: perhaps post to devel about that and if no objections we just remove it?
16:39:05 <maxamillion> #agreed Revisit next week as there are concerns to be addressed about the schedule (+1:7, -1:0, +0:0)
16:39:21 <maxamillion> #topic New Business
16:39:25 <dgilmore> nirik: sure
16:39:29 <maxamillion> #topic #1761 Update of "Fedora Release Live Cycle" and "Changes / Policy"
16:39:32 <maxamillion> .fesco 1761
16:39:33 <zodbot> maxamillion: Issue #1761: Update of "Fedora Release Live Cycle" and "Changes / Policy" - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1761
16:39:35 <maxamillion> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1761
16:41:58 <sgallagh> I just got feedback from Jeff Law on GCC: they give the schedule the thumbs-up
16:42:01 <nirik> I am not sure how much this changes from what we have now. I mean after just removing alpha
16:42:09 <maxamillion> nirik: right
16:42:12 <dgilmore> I do think that we need to re look at the life cycle
16:42:27 <sgallagh> law is having trouble accessing his FAS account so he can't comment directly
16:42:39 <nirik> then there is the bigger question of life cycles for streams, modules, etc.
16:42:57 <kalev> let's go back to the previous ticket and approve the schedule then now that we have gcc confirmation too?
16:43:06 <nirik> sure we can
16:43:16 <jsmith_work> WORKSFORME
16:44:16 <maxamillion> #topic #1765 Proposed Fedora 28 schedule
16:44:17 <maxamillion> .fesco 1765
16:44:17 <maxamillion> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1765
16:44:19 <zodbot> maxamillion: Issue #1765: Proposed Fedora 28 schedule - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1765
16:44:37 <dgilmore> I do not see any answers on gcc
16:44:39 <sgallagh> #info Jeff Law states "that schedule looks good from the GCC side, no problem if you say so on my behalf"
16:44:43 <jforbes> based on the GCC approval, I am +1
16:44:46 <maxamillion> Proposal: Approve Fedora 28 Schedule
16:44:50 * maxamillion is +1
16:44:53 <kalev> +1
16:44:57 <sgallagh> dgilmore: mattn and law messaged me directly
16:45:02 <sgallagh> I am relaying their approval
16:45:16 <dgilmore> sgallagh: I do not like that form of feedback
16:45:34 <nirik> +1
16:45:40 <sgallagh> dgilmore: As I said above, he's trying to comment on the ticket but can't get into his FAS account
16:45:47 <sgallagh> I can ask him to join this channel
16:45:49 <sgallagh> One moment
16:48:55 <sgallagh> And he's not responding at the moment...
16:49:33 <maxamillion> :/
16:51:28 <sgallagh> How do we want to proceed?
16:51:38 <sgallagh> I quoted him exactly above.
16:52:41 <kalev> I need to step away in 2 minutes, but still +1 here now that glibc/gcc/FPL have all +1'd the schedule
16:53:07 * nirik is fine with +1 and he can add to the ticket when he can.
16:53:30 <jsmith_work> I agree -- let's +1 this and he can add to the ticket later once he gets his FAS problems solved
16:53:37 <dgilmore> mass rebuild is the week after devconf
16:54:49 <dgilmore> assuming that gcc is okay with it (I would rather hear it directly) then I am good with the schedule
16:55:53 <maxamillion> sgallagh: I don't have a +/-1 from you (for posterity)
16:55:57 <sgallagh> +1
16:56:34 <maxamillion> dgilmore: +/-1?
16:56:57 <dgilmore> +1 assuming gcc is okay
16:57:01 <maxamillion> rgr
16:57:03 <maxamillion> #agreed Approve Fedora 28 Schedule (+1:7, -1:0, +0:0)
16:57:12 <maxamillion> #topic #1761 Update of "Fedora Release Live Cycle" and "Changes / Policy"
16:57:15 <maxamillion> .fesco 1761
16:57:16 <zodbot> maxamillion: Issue #1761: Update of "Fedora Release Live Cycle" and "Changes / Policy" - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1761
16:57:18 <maxamillion> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1761
16:58:10 * dgilmore would like us to take a bigger look at the schedule
16:58:22 <dgilmore> remove things that are no longer relevant
16:58:32 <dgilmore> add things that have become tribal knowledge
17:00:10 <maxamillion> dgilmore: +1
17:00:13 <nirik> I think we should defer this until after flock, because there's a lot more changes than just removing alpha from our traditional cyclee
17:00:23 <maxamillion> nirik: sounds good
17:00:28 <jsmith_work> +1 to defer until after Flock
17:00:34 <jforbes> works for me
17:00:38 <maxamillion> +1 to defer until after Flock
17:00:58 <sgallagh> agreed
17:01:18 <sgallagh> dgilmore: OK, jlaw just turned up. If you want to ask him to repeat his OK for GCC, go ahead
17:01:51 <sgallagh> (BTW, that "agreed" == +1 to defer to after Flock)
17:02:07 <jlaw> or I can just say, the schedule is OK for GCC  rather than repeating the question :-)
17:02:14 <maxamillion> jlaw: for posterity of the FESCo meeting, would you mind providing the stance of the gcc team on the Fedora 28 Schedule
17:02:19 <maxamillion> jlaw: bah! beat me to it, thanks :)
17:02:55 <maxamillion> alright, kalev is afk .... dgilmore, thoughts on defering #1761 until after Flock?
17:03:02 <jlaw> np.  FWIW, I would have responded on the page last week, but couldn't get my FAS creds to work
17:03:20 <maxamillion> jlaw: bummer :(
17:03:35 <jlaw> sure it's a problem on my side, it always is...  then it fell off my radar
17:04:42 <maxamillion> jlaw: +1 - thank you for commented in channel
17:06:23 <nirik> jlaw: if there is anything we can do to assist on the fas creds, let us know in #fedora-admin... happy to help
17:06:51 <maxamillion> dgilmore: +/-1 about postponing #1761 until after Flock?
17:07:07 <dgilmore> jlaw: okay thanks
17:07:19 <dgilmore> maxamillion: +1 to defering
17:07:41 <maxamillion> #agreed Defer #1761 until after Flock, there are a lot of changes that need discussion/review (+1:7, -1:0, +0:0)
17:07:44 <maxamillion> errr
17:07:45 <maxamillion> #undo
17:07:45 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by maxamillion at 17:07:41 : Defer #1761 until after Flock, there are a lot of changes that need discussion/review (+1:7, -1:0, +0:0)
17:07:48 <maxamillion> #agreed Defer #1761 until after Flock, there are a lot of changes that need discussion/review (+1:6, -1:0, +0:0)
17:07:56 <maxamillion> kalev is still afk ... I had the vote count wrong
17:07:57 <maxamillion> alright
17:08:05 <maxamillion> #topic Next week's chair
17:08:18 <maxamillion> question, are we going to hold a meeting during Flock?
17:08:27 <jsmith_work> I'm fine either way...
17:08:31 <maxamillion> same
17:08:40 <jforbes> Either way works for me
17:08:49 <jsmith_work> (but there may be other activities/talks at our normal time)
17:08:51 <jsmith_work> I think many of us will be there
17:09:04 <maxamillion> is anyone in FESCo not goign to be at Flock?
17:09:12 <sgallagh> The conference ends at noon EST on Friday
17:09:30 <sgallagh> Also known as "this time slot"
17:09:36 <jsmith_work> Good timing, then :-)
17:09:38 <nirik> and if we change times... who knows. ;)
17:09:42 <sgallagh> Err, EDT
17:09:51 * dgilmore will be at flock
17:10:14 * jsmith_work has to run to another meeting -- catch y'all later
17:10:33 <maxamillion> alright, so it looks like we'll have a normally scheduled meeting unless the time changes, but bowlofeggs will be at flock so I imagine this time will work again for at least next week
17:10:42 <maxamillion> who's chair next week?
17:10:56 <jforbes> I will
17:11:38 * dgilmore will not be available the week after flock
17:12:23 <maxamillion> jforbes: wait, you will be at flock or you'll chair the meeting?
17:12:32 <maxamillion> jforbes: or both? :)
17:12:39 <jforbes> maxamillion: both
17:12:43 <maxamillion> jforbes: rocking, thanks
17:12:44 <dgilmore> :D
17:12:52 <maxamillion> #info jforbes to Chair next FESCo Meeting
17:12:59 <maxamillion> #topic Open Floor
17:13:14 <dgilmore> should we have a whenisgood?
17:13:46 <sgallagh> dgilmore: You missed the beginning. I volunteered to send one out
17:13:53 <sgallagh> It will apply to the week after Flock
17:15:03 <maxamillion> anyone have anything for open floor?
17:18:08 <maxamillion> I'll give it another minute or two and then shut it down for the day
17:19:38 <dgilmore> sgallagh: okay
17:19:46 <maxamillion> alright, thanks everyone!
17:19:47 <maxamillion> #endmeeting