15:00:06 #startmeeting FESCO (2018-09-17) 15:00:06 Meeting started Mon Sep 17 15:00:06 2018 UTC. 15:00:06 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 15:00:06 The chair is sgallagh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00:06 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:06 The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2018-09-17)' 15:00:06 #meetingname fesco 15:00:06 The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 15:00:06 #chair nirik, maxamillion, jsmith, jforbes, zbyszek, tyll, sgallagh, contyk, bowlofeggs 15:00:06 Current chairs: bowlofeggs contyk jforbes jsmith maxamillion nirik sgallagh tyll zbyszek 15:00:06 #topic init process 15:00:12 .hello2 15:00:14 zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' 15:00:17 .hello2 15:00:18 jforbes: jforbes 'Justin M. Forbes' 15:00:24 .hello2 15:00:24 .hello2 15:00:24 sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' 15:00:27 bowlofeggs: bowlofeggs 'Randy Barlow' 15:01:00 .hello psabata 15:01:01 contyk: psabata 'Petr Šabata' 15:01:19 .hello2 15:01:20 jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' 15:01:24 morning 15:01:27 * jsmith is seriously jet-lagged, but mostly here 15:01:32 just one item on the agenda today 15:01:38 we should be able to finish under three hours 15:01:44 contyk: :-) 15:02:01 OK, let me get a coffee 15:02:13 lol 15:02:20 #topic #1989 Decide status of "Rename Atomic Workstation to Silverblue" change 15:02:20 .fesco 1989 15:02:22 sgallagh: Issue #1989: Decide status of "Rename Atomic Workstation to Silverblue" change - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1989 15:02:33 note that zbyszek posted a proposal in ticket 15:02:37 .hello2 15:02:38 maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' 15:02:42 Hopefully this will be a short discussion, as zbyszek updated the ticket after the Silverblue meeting this morning 15:03:00 * nirik reads up since he just got up 15:03:02 i +1'd his in-ticket proposal, in ticket 15:03:14 From the ticket: 15:03:14 proposal: We acknowledge that the change is partially implemented and users might see the old name is various places, but what was already done cannot be reverted meaningfully. If the silverblue team proposes any further changes before GA that need exceptions from the general policy, they will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Likewise, if there are any problems, they will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. 15:03:33 I am +1 to the proposal 15:03:39 +1 15:03:46 +1. seems quite resonable to me. 15:03:52 I'm +1 to the proposal, but mostly because I don't think there's any reasonable way we can do better :-/ 15:04:08 +1 from me... but I'm with sgallagh, not sure we have much choice 15:04:08 sgallagh: my feelings exactly 15:04:21 +1 too... 15:04:25 Well, the test day was pretty widely advertised as Silverblue 15:04:46 there is also the website... but I think there's a PR... 15:05:40 nirik: What's the impact if that PR isn't merged before Beta release? 15:06:02 people might be confused on how to download it I guess. 15:06:23 Confused about it or have no idea it exists? 15:06:27 I think the latter is more likely 15:06:51 yeah, not sure, but perhaps. Looking quickly now I don't see it at all... 15:07:06 oh there it is. 15:07:21 "Try Atomic Workstation" in a side bar on the workstation page 15:07:56 so, should be easy to update 15:07:58 +1 15:08:08 * sgallagh nods 15:08:35 for the record ... I don't like that people are just shoving things that don't have an useful contingency plan 15:08:40 Does anyone mind if I propose "Update the getfedora page" as a blocker for Beta? 15:08:48 nope 15:08:55 sgallagh: go for it 15:09:02 https://pagure.io/fedora-websites/pull-request/864 15:09:26 Proposal: FESCo will treat the update of the getfedora.org website to reference Silverblue as a blocking issue for F29 Beta. 15:09:40 hum... but silverblue itself isn't blocking. 15:09:57 so we could get something where it fails and.. 15:10:04 Right, it is "preview" 15:10:18 Perhaps treat the update as FE? 15:10:23 so, lets just leave it at that and websites will merge that I'm sure. 15:10:50 sorry sgallagh, it seems nirik is righter this time 15:10:54 :) 15:10:58 nirik: At minimum, I want the website to stop mentioning Atomic Workstation then 15:11:05 i also don't like the lack of contingency plan, but we did also approve this change (incl. contingency plan) 15:11:08 If it's not building, neither version should be there 15:11:11 so it's a bit on us too 15:11:26 I'll rephrase my proposal. 15:11:30 maybe a lesson is that we should scrutinize contingincy plans a littl emore going forward 15:11:37 bowlofeggs: indeed. 15:12:06 Proposal: FESCo considers the accuracy of the getfedora.org page relating to Silverblue (nee Atomic Workstation) to be a blocking issue for F29 Beta." 15:12:24 sgallagh: haha, +1 15:12:31 hum... but what does that mean in this case? 15:12:34 (nee?) 15:12:45 we don't update the websites until right before we are releasing. 15:12:49 bowlofeggs: Archaic term that basically means "also formerly known as" 15:12:54 i take that to mean we don't want getfedora.org to link to things users can't get? 15:13:09 bowlofeggs: Exactly 15:13:09 TIL French is archaic ;-) 15:13:11 sgallagh: ah, haven't heard that before 15:13:30 bowlofeggs: Archaic usage in English, sorry. 15:13:30 How about we just say that we would like the websites team to make sure the page is accurate before release? 15:13:40 err, that last was for bcotton 15:13:58 nirik: I thought that's pretty much what I was saying 15:14:08 I was just calling out this particular tricky case explicitly 15:14:08 nirik: do you mean final release? 15:14:13 vs. beta? 15:14:22 well, I don't understand the blocking part... I mean this is not in the normal flow of blocker bugs. 15:14:36 if we are at go/no-go and the websites isn't updated we are no-go? 15:15:01 nirik: We have a "release-day" category for update bugs, yes? 15:15:05 websites can't usually update until after we are go. 15:15:06 s/update/upgrade/ 15:15:37 0-day blockers... sure I guess we could do that. 15:15:42 The effect of this being that we would prep all the machinery to do the release on Tuesday, but if this isn't fixed we would delay the announcement until it was. 15:15:48 just seems a bit micromanaging, but ok. 15:16:12 Maybe, but I think the Silverblue situation is confusing enough without incorrect messaging too 15:16:46 sgallagh: I think nirik's less-formal version is good enough. 15:17:16 * nirik sees how we can make a single topic last. ;) 15:17:43 * sgallagh didn't want to get roped into running next week's meeting if this one was too short ;-) 15:17:44 anyhow, I guess I am fine with a 0-day (but we would need to file a bug and get it acked) or just asking them 15:17:51 making anything about this change "blocking" doesn't feel right to me 15:18:04 hahaha 15:18:35 i agree that the website mentioning nothing about this is better than it linking to the old thing and it 404'ing 15:18:44 Yeah, I suppose if we screw up the website, it's relatively quick to get it fixed as well. 15:18:50 but thats true of all our stuff on the website. ;) 15:19:38 I withdraw my proposal for blocking on the website updates 15:20:59 OK, I have +7 for zbyszek 's original proposal 15:21:18 #agreed We acknowledge that the change is partially implemented and users might see the old name is various places, but what was already done cannot be reverted meaningfully. If the silverblue team proposes any further changes before GA that need exceptions from the general policy, they will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Likewise, if there are any problems, they will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. (+7, 15:21:18 0, -0) 15:21:31 Do we have anything further on this topic? 15:21:50 #info FESCo would like the websites team to make sure the page is accurate before release. 15:21:56 ack 15:21:58 ack 15:22:12 move on? 15:22:30 #topic Next week's chair 15:22:37 I can do it. 15:22:40 * sgallagh throws the chair at zbyszek 15:22:46 * zbyszek ducks 15:23:00 #action zbyszek to chair the next meeting on 2018-09-24 15:23:19 is it a comfy chair? 15:23:26 I'll be around for that one, but I'll be at AnsibleFest the following week (along with, I suspect) several other FESCo members. 15:23:54 I *should* be here next week, but will likely miss the two meetings after that. 15:23:59 Will do my best to keep up on tickets, etc. 15:25:47 #topic Open Floor 15:25:55 Any topics for Open Floor this week? 15:26:01 * bowlofeggs looks around at all the open space on this floor… 15:26:11 I opened an issue for the docs conversion 15:26:14 .fesco 1994 15:26:15 zbyszek: Issue #1994: moving FESCo policy docs under docs.fp.o - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1994 15:26:20 * sgallagh pulls the lever and opens the floor under bowlofeggs 15:26:39 haha 15:26:45 zbyszek++ 15:26:46 bowlofeggs: Karma for zbyszek changed to 14 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 15:26:49 If nobody objects I'll file a PR for fedora-docs to include this repo in the website 15:27:08 zbyszek: I think we effectively all agreed to this last week, so +1 15:27:24 Right, I'm not asking for a vote, just letting you know that it's happening. 15:27:36 zbyszek: Sounds great! 15:27:51 thanks for working on it 15:28:06 #info zbyszek is moving forward with the docs improvements 15:28:33 zbyszek++ 15:28:33 contyk: Karma for zbyszek changed to 15 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 15:28:56 zbyszek++ 15:29:12 Anything further or can we close this out in only 30 minutes? 15:29:53 Nothing here 15:29:56 nope 15:30:01 nope 15:30:23 nothing further from me 15:30:34 Thank you all for coming, then! 15:30:38 thanks sgallagh 15:30:40 #endmeeting