15:05:25 <maxamillion> #startmeeting FESCO (2018-12-17)
15:05:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec 17 15:05:25 2018 UTC.
15:05:25 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:05:25 <zodbot> The chair is maxamillion. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:05:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:05:25 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2018-12-17)'
15:05:25 <maxamillion> #meetingname fesco
15:05:25 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
15:05:25 <maxamillion> #chair nirik, maxamillion, jsmith, jforbes, zbyszek, tyll, sgallagh, contyk, bowlofeggs
15:05:25 <zodbot> Current chairs: bowlofeggs contyk jforbes jsmith maxamillion nirik sgallagh tyll zbyszek
15:05:25 <maxamillion> #topic init process
15:05:32 <jforbes> .hello2
15:05:33 <zodbot> jforbes: jforbes 'Justin M. Forbes' <jforbes@redhat.com>
15:05:37 <zbyszek> maxamillion: nope
15:05:46 <nirik> morning
15:05:51 <zbyszek> .hello2
15:05:52 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
15:06:09 <bcotton> .hello2
15:06:11 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
15:06:47 <maxamillion> .hello2
15:06:48 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
15:07:30 <bowlofeggs> .hello2
15:07:31 <zodbot> bowlofeggs: bowlofeggs 'Randy Barlow' <rbarlow@redhat.com>
15:08:18 <jsmith> .hello2
15:08:19 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
15:08:53 <maxamillion> alright, unless I miscounted we have quorum
15:09:49 <maxamillion> #topic Follow Up Business
15:09:52 <maxamillion> #topic #2020 Firefox is switching from gcc to clang/llvm
15:09:52 <maxamillion> .fesco 2020
15:09:52 <maxamillion> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2020
15:09:54 <zodbot> maxamillion: Issue #2020: Firefox is switching from gcc to clang/llvm - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2020
15:10:06 <bowlofeggs> so it seems this is a highly contentous issue
15:10:10 * nirik was just reading the flurry of comments in this from overnight
15:10:35 <bowlofeggs> i found the linked blog post compelling, though as zbyszek pointed out there were patches required to achieve those numbers (and to get it to work at all?)
15:10:53 <bowlofeggs> but the security claims i found to be the most compelling actually, though i must say i don't know a lot about them
15:11:07 <jsmith> Personally, I think we need to wait at least another week for things to settle a bit.  Development is still happening.
15:11:20 <nirik> yeah...
15:11:29 <bowlofeggs> i would be ok with waiting a bit to see what shakes out
15:11:39 <bowlofeggs> i would love to see a detailed write up of the security angle on this
15:11:45 <bowlofeggs> that performance post was really nice
15:12:18 <jforbes> I would be interested to hear from the GCC folks on the patches there
15:12:20 <bowlofeggs> should we just hold and move on?
15:12:38 <jsmith> bowlofeggs: +1 from me
15:13:23 <bukaj> jforbes: the two patches mentioned are already in gcc-8.2.1-6.fc{28,29,30}
15:13:44 <jforbes> Good to know
15:13:59 <bukaj> one of them was just to improve compile time
15:15:02 <maxamillion> alright, anyone have a proposal they want voted on here?
15:15:27 <zbyszek> bowlofeggs: +1 from me for moving on too. The decision from last week still stands, and I don't think there's enough new arguments to change it.
15:15:58 <bowlofeggs> well i wonder if the security differences are enough new arguments
15:16:18 <bowlofeggs> when we discussed this, i don't recall security being a consideration
15:16:40 <bowlofeggs> and there are claims that clang doesn't support some security features that we do use from gcc
15:16:54 <bowlofeggs> and of course, the browser is one of the most sensitive components of a desktop computer
15:16:59 <nirik> proposal: wait until after the new year and revisit then
15:17:07 <maxamillion> nirik: +1
15:17:10 <bowlofeggs> nirik: +1
15:17:13 <jforbes> nirik: +1
15:17:24 <zbyszek> nirik: +1
15:18:20 <jsmith> nirik: +1
15:19:21 <maxamillion> #agreed: Revisit "Firefox is switching from gcc to clang/llvm" after the new year (+1: 6 -1:0, +0:0)
15:19:26 <maxamillion> #topic New Business
15:20:14 <maxamillion> #topic #2021 F30 Change: Migrate Python-based Nautilus extensions to Python 3
15:20:14 <maxamillion> .fesco 2021
15:20:14 <maxamillion> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2021
15:20:15 <zodbot> maxamillion: Issue #2021: F30 Change: Migrate Python-based Nautilus extensions to Python 3 - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2021
15:21:18 <maxamillion> I'm +1 to till's request for info
15:22:00 * nirik agrees with zbyszek's last comment.
15:22:06 <jforbes> agreed
15:22:42 <jsmith> WORKSFORME
15:23:35 <maxamillion> Proposal: Wait until more information is provided as per https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2021#comment-545919
15:23:40 <zbyszek> +1
15:24:05 <jforbes> +1
15:24:18 <jsmith> +1
15:24:20 <nirik> kalev: you happen to be around?
15:24:51 * zbyszek notes that there was no reply on the fedora-devel announcement, so this doesn't seem to be very controversial.
15:24:54 <nirik> waiting is fine too... +1
15:25:36 <bowlofeggs> i don't mind waiting, but i also feel like any extension that aren't ported to python 3 by now must not be important
15:25:47 <bowlofeggs> i.e., i would vote +1 even knowing that some weren't ported
15:25:58 <maxamillion> #agreed Wait until more information is provided as per https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2021#comment-545919 (+1:6, -1:0, +0:0)
15:25:59 <zbyszek> bowlofeggs: agreed
15:26:02 <bowlofeggs> python2 eols in early 2020
15:26:18 <maxamillion> #topic Next week's chair
15:26:30 <bowlofeggs> "next week" isn't for a few weeks ☺
15:26:35 <zbyszek> I also doubt that we'll get much more info from waiting... but it's hard to vote no to a request for more details.
15:26:47 <jforbes> Right, there are eve's the next couple of meetings
15:26:56 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: the wiki page doesn't account for that ;)
15:27:00 <bowlofeggs> is our next meeting jan 7?
15:27:12 <zbyszek> That's already after elections right?
15:27:12 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: I think so yes
15:27:15 <jforbes> yes
15:27:20 <maxamillion> oh right
15:27:42 <zbyszek> So I think we should pick a volunteer from the subset that is certain to be there, to avoid confusion
15:28:15 <bowlofeggs> my seat is good 'till next summer, so i can do it
15:28:44 <maxamillion> this is my last meeting then
15:28:59 <maxamillion> it's been an honor
15:28:59 <bowlofeggs> oh man, that's sad
15:29:03 <bowlofeggs> maxamillion++
15:29:11 <zbyszek> maxamillion++
15:29:11 <zodbot> zbyszek: Karma for maxamillion changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:29:47 <maxamillion> alright
15:29:47 <jforbes> maxamillion: Thanks for serving
15:30:05 <maxamillion> #action bowlofeggs to chair next meeting
15:30:18 <maxamillion> #topic Open Floor
15:30:52 <nirik> thanks for everything maxamillion!
15:31:38 <maxamillion> I'll still be around, just need to step back from FESCo so I didn't run again ... my time is even more constrained than it once was
15:33:03 <maxamillion> alright, if nothing for open floor I'll light the fuse in about 2 minutes
15:38:12 <maxamillion> #endmeeting